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User Info Finito On The Covid Nonsense in forum [Market-Ticker]
Tickerguy
Posts: 166192
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Frat - It's mostly not intentional.

But there have been hidden surveys done (e.g. hidden camera, which for obvious reasons has to be rather carefully controlled in such an environment) in public washrooms when it comes to service industry workers (e.g. bars, restaurants, etc) that have found that the average employee uses the can three or four times during their shift -- and washes their hands ONCE.

The other problem is that with the sink IN THE RESTROOM if someone ELSE doesn't wash their hands but you do it's for nothing as they use the handle or knob and you're ****ed, since you use it AFTER washing your hands.

The sink should be in the hall with a camera on it and a big monitor over the bar. Compliance would go to near 100% instantly, and in addition once you DID wash your hands you wouldn't get immediately contaminated since there's no doorknob to worry about.

A bigger problme is the phone thing -- what percentage grab it and use it when on the ****ter? Well?

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 50,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me

Frat
Posts: 2979
Incept: 2009-07-15

NKY
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Well, I would say upwards of 95% use the phone on the ****ter. I wasn't lying; your comment above LITERALLY made me grab the Clorox wipes and douse my phone and hands. I just ... I cannot fathom NOT washing your hands. It just does not compute with me. OK, during a night of drinking, the more you consume is inversely proportional to how much you wash your hands. At least... from my very non-scientific study on the subject.

But... I honestly could not tell you the last time I shat and did not scrub my hands afterward. That... it is literally unthinkable to me.

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We're ****ed. Where's Henry Bowman when you need him?
Chromehill
Posts: 56
Incept: 2010-03-03

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@Frat - See this article:

https://www.ahchealthenews.com/2017/02/0....

The expert says nothing to really worry about if you practice strong personal hygiene...for the most part that is accurate, our bodies fight off the nasty stuff in the fecal matter we encounter. Of course, occasionally there is something in the fecal matter that makes us very sick.

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"Power, like the reproductive muscle, longs to be exercised, often without judgement or right" - Gerry Spence
Exelitepwrlftr
Posts: 58
Incept: 2019-12-16

North Carolina
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Meanwhile, The Joseph Goebbels Media continue to spread the idea that NC is seeing out of control viral spread (among other states) yet the official reports make contradictory statements.

Remember - initially this was about preventing the hospitals from becoming overwhelmed. That's what we were "sold" anyway and as usual, under the auspices of public safety.....

From the latest CLI (Covid Like Illness) report dated Jul-16th:

The percent of people seen in the emergency department for COVID-like illness who had to stay in the hospital decreased.

The number of people seeking care in North Carolina emergency departments is increasing but is still well below normal.

And finally:

The percentage of people tested who were positive for the virus that causes COVID-19 DECREASED the week ending July 11, 2020.

Meet The Press had another "expert" on yesterday from the NIH, a certain Dr. Collins (NIH Director) and he was adamant the "science" on masks is clear and he's shocked that it's been politicized and that Trump won't issue a nationwide mask mandate. Seems to me he's part of the politicization and guilty of promoting lies and deceit.

I sent him an email this morning asking him about the RCTs and more recent study published in Nature Medicine which make it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that masks don't do jack ****. I'll go out on a limb here and state I doubt I'll receive a response from that jack wad.

Burya_rubenstein
Posts: 1743
Incept: 2007-08-08

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My personal solution to the phone in the ****ter problem is to encase the phone in a transparent ziplock bag and set it on a counter in front of the toilet. After I'm done and hand-washed, the plastic bag then gets doused with E85 extract (because I *still* can't buy 70% isopropanol!) and the phone removed from the bag. If I had to work the phone for some reason, the plastic bag also gets discarded and replaced.
Asimov
Posts: 117838
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee
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Frat: Norovirus spreads the same way. It's ONLY contagious in feces or vomit. And you know how common that is, and how fast it spreads.

But yes. There are plenty of people that don't wash after ****ting. And even if it's just 1 in 100, that's all it takes in some place where everybody has to touch the same surface.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Nickdanger
Posts: 877
Incept: 2011-06-12

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@Tickerguy,
Quote:
But there have been hidden surveys done (e.g. hidden camera, which for obvious reasons has to be rather carefully controlled in such an environment) in public washrooms when it comes to service industry workers (e.g. bars, restaurants, etc) that have found that the average employee uses the can three or four times during their shift -- and washes their hands ONCE.


Can you provide the source of this to me? I have looked and can't find anything relating to this. I have been in a constant battle over the last few days on my local NextDoor network about sanitation vs masks as the main cause of covid. I'm having a tough time trying to wake up these fools (I know it's probably a losing battle), and have had my posts removed for "fake content" so would like to provide a source when I quote this. LOL, the "fake content" was actually from a valid medical organization who some of the Karens found offensive because it was a "conservative" medical group.

I feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall, but the frustration has led me to try to open some eyes. Actually, I did have a physician come out to defend me before the post got pulled.

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Grammar: the difference between knowing your **** and knowing you're ****.
Drifter
Posts: 619
Incept: 2016-02-11

Pacific Northwest
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Just to add to the conversation:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fu....

Money quote: "All told, current understanding about SARS-CoV-2 transmission is still limited. There are no perfect experimental data proving or disproving droplet vs aerosol-based transmission of SARS-CoV-2. The balance of evidence, however, seems inconsistent with aerosol-based transmission of SARS-CoV-2 particularly in well-ventilated spaces. What this means in practice is that keeping 6-feet apart from other people and wearing medical masks, high-quality cloth masks, or face shields when it is not possible to be 6-feet apart (for both source control and respiratory protection) should be adequate to minimize the spread of SARS-CoV-2 (in addition to frequent hand hygiene, environmental cleaning, and optimizing indoor ventilation)."

And now the CDC is mixing active covid test results with antibody tests results. So if you had it in December, the press will be touting the number as a 'new' case.

Captainkidd
Posts: 1940
Incept: 2010-05-25

Houston, Texas
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Quote:
Money quote: "All told, current understanding about SARS-CoV-2 transmission is still limited. There are no perfect experimental data proving or disproving droplet vs aerosol-based transmission of SARS-CoV-2. The balance of evidence, however, seems inconsistent with aerosol-based transmission of SARS-CoV-2 particularly in well-ventilated spaces. What this means in practice is that keeping 6-feet apart from other people and wearing medical masks, high-quality cloth masks, or face shields when it is not possible to be 6-feet apart (for both source control and respiratory protection) should be adequate to minimize the spread of SARS-CoV-2 (Even though we just SAID that the evidence seems inconsistent with aerosol-based transmission, showing that they are utterly foolish and useless, so it is completely contradictory to what we said) (in addition to frequent hand hygiene, environmental cleaning, and optimizing indoor ventilation)."


Clarified it a little bit....

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A lawyer with a briefcase can steal more than a thousand men with guns. --Mario Puzo

It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. -- Henry Ford
Depression2020
Posts: 97
Incept: 2020-03-20

Northern Virginia
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I'm no fan of Harvard Global Health Institute Ashish Jha, who helps generate fear porn for CNN, but I agree with his comment here:
Quote:
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and several state health departments have been reporting COVID-19 diagnostic tests and antibody tests as one grand tally, rather than keeping their results separate, The Atlantic reported.

When told how the CDC chose to lump the results of both tests together, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute Ashish Jha told The Atlantic, "You've got to be kidding me ... How could the CDC make that mistake? This is a mess."
https://www.livescience.com/cdc-combined....
Tickerguy
Posts: 166192
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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It's not a mistake -- it's a scam.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 50,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
Exelitepwrlftr
Posts: 58
Incept: 2019-12-16

North Carolina
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Well I take back my previous claim, the good Dr. actually replied to my email. Notice he didn't provide a link to the "analysis" and he barely touches a response on the points I raised (that Karl wrote about previously):

Dear Mr. X,



Thanks for your note. This is a very important question, and you seem to be very skeptical. But your first citations are about influenza, and clearly SARS-CoV-2 has a different pattern for transmission, so I wouldnt want to extrapolate. The clip from Tony Fauci was from an earlier time before it was clear that asymptomatic transmission is so important, so I wouldnt use that as evidence now either. The Nature Medicine article is more supportive than unsupportive of masks.



But see below from a meta-analysis of the extensive literature on this from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation:



Why masks? How effective are masks?

Building on recently published meta-analyses and incorporating 41 papers, IHME researchers performed a meta-analysis of peer-reviewed scientific studies and medRxiv pre-prints in an assessment of mask effectiveness for preventing respiratory viral infections. The studies were extracted from a medRxiv publication by Liang, M., Gao, L., Cheng, C., Zhou, Q., Uy, J.P., Heiner, K., & Sun, C. (May 5, 2020) titled Efficacy of face mask in preventing respiratory virus transmission: a systematic review and meta-analysis. In addition, we considered all articles from a second meta-analysis by Chu, D.K., Akl, E.A., Duda, S. et. al., published June 1, 2020, in The Lancet, titled Physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Lastly, we added one supplementary publication by Wang, Y., Tian, H., Zhang, L. et. al., published May 11, 2020, in BMJ Global Health, titled Reduction of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in households by face mask use, disinfection and social distancing: a cohort study in Beijing, China.

Our independent meta-analysis of mask effectiveness suggests a reduction in infection for mask-wearers by at least one-third compared to control groups. This work supports the growing scientific consensus that cloth masks, whether homemade or commercial, can reduce respiratory virus infections by 33% and slow community spread of COVID-19.



That seems to be the best summary we have right now.



Best, Francis
Krzelune
Posts: 8164
Incept: 2007-10-08

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Sowing distrust and confusion in health care system, higher education, public k thru 12 education, voting system, justice system, religious institutions, government at all levels? What on earth could be going on?
Tickerguy
Posts: 166192
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Of course not.

He has no evidence. The word "suggests" says everything.

One of the often-cited papers indeed says that respirators can provide both source and target protection that is meaningful. However, it also cautions that cloth masks actually could increase risk, although they were unable to get a statistically-significant signal on that and thus they used the word "could" rather than "does".

The important point here is that the dividing line between a "mask" and a "respirator" is the N95. Nothing else was effective at all.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 50,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
Tickerguy
Posts: 166192
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BTW I found that cited "review"; it's trash. Note that it is not peer-reviewed. It also contains a hell of a lot of "ifs", none of which they control for, and all of which presumes, it appears, at least surgical masks (NOT cloth "masks") and N95s.

N95s we know are protective. But nobody is going to use them in the general public; beyond the comfort problem outside there's a COST issue with those.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 50,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
Uwe
Posts: 8794
Incept: 2009-01-03
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USA
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Frat wrote..
One of my issues with the fecal-oral spread (I'm absolutely NOT discounting it; in fact, I usually throw it out there whenever possible) is that ... truly, is this it? Are people so ****ing filthy they don't wash their hands enough and then spread literal **** to everyone else?

I've given this some thought recently. If your poop is infectious, all the hand-washing in the world may not be sufficient. Think about it. You take a dump. You wipe. You get off the pot. What's the first thing you do? You pull up your pants and buckle your belt with your contaminated hands. Now you walk over to the sink to wash your hands. You do this perfectly well, and they're clean. But the moment you touch the front of your pants or your belt, they're contaminated again. Oops.

Maybe we should go back to wearing kilts?

KD wrote..
A bigger problme is the phone thing -- what percentage grab it and use it when on the ****ter? Well?

This might not be the as big a problem as you think. I don't use my phone on the crapper, but I do use a tablet there. Thing is, I put that sucker down before I wipe my behind and contaminate my hands, and I don't pick it up again until after I've washed my hands.

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"Corona Virus will come and go, but government will NEVER forget how easy it was to take control of everyone's life; to control every sporting event, classroom, restaurant table, church pew, and even whether you are allowed to leave your house.
Ebt
Posts: 253
Incept: 2018-12-22

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@Uwe

Thanks for telling us that.
Tonythetiger
Posts: 68
Incept: 2019-01-27

Fort Walton
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A good summary article, with links, on the various avenues for fighting off viral infections, many of which are things you can do without a doctor's help.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/07/no_a....

Naturally these aren't allowed to be indicated as a treatment due to potential loss of licensing and livelihood by the doctor who wrote the piece, so do with them what you will.

Tonythetiger
Posts: 68
Incept: 2019-01-27

Fort Walton
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@Uwe

If your poop has the virus in it you're already infected. The poop to worry about is the last few guys who used the place before you got there.

Tickerguy
Posts: 166192
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Or the guy in the next stall who flushes..... especially in a commercial establishment, basically all of which are high-pressure toilets and spray **** literally everywhere.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 50,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
Frat
Posts: 2979
Incept: 2009-07-15

NKY
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@ Karl

Ain't THAT a lovely thought on a Tuesday morning? It doesn't even matter if you avoid ****ting in public at that point ... if you're just taking a leak, and WHOOSH, it's in the air an you've got teh covids.

I'll still take it over getting the herp, but it's not the preferred course of action.

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We're ****ed. Where's Henry Bowman when you need him?
Tickerguy
Posts: 166192
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Indeed.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 50,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
Wifi
Posts: 3566
Incept: 2013-02-13

Seagrove Beach
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Was in a movie theatre bathroom Grand Boulevard, taking a piss, some idiot walked in with his refillable popcorn bucket put it on top of the urinal valve assembly, ate popcorn while he was peeing.

In a extremely loud voice, I said "**** I forgot my popcorn".

I try to stay away from any public bathrooms, if the woodline is close I'm joining the animals, which are cleaner, and more civil that the humans.

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Hurricane Evacuation Plan
1.Grab Beer
2.Run Like Hell
Asimov
Posts: 117838
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee
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I have always hated public bathrooms. HATE them.

That was before this crap too.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Djloche
Posts: 4338
Incept: 2008-07-07

Vancouver, WA
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Friend worked at a gas station in an area where the homes are all multi million dollar valuations. Illegal workers would stand on the toilet seat and squat, inevitably leaving feces everywhere

Several times during his shift he would have to clean the bathroom, only to have it be destroyed again

the womens bathroom would be similarly destroyed regardless of who was the customer.

The bushes around the corner are a safer cleaner option


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"The Constitution is the IDE. The 2nd Amendment is the debugger."
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