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Elkad
Posts: 1258
Incept: 2009-09-04

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Current.
Freezers. One of my local clients has freezers. Restaurant supply company, and his warehouse is stuffed absolutely full of used commercial equipment. Sure, it'll look funny next to your fancy Spysung smart refrigerator, but it'll keep your half a beef cold.

After the event that sounds slightly like the non-narwal member of Monodontidae, or the chief export of nose goblins?

Dog. Yes, mine barks. Exactly when she is supposed to. Not at squirrels, yes at people. The tone changes to let me know where they are (half-block away on the sidewalk, in the neighbor's yard, in HER yard. And, other than when they are in HER yard, she'll stop instantly on command. Or start again.

Only way I'm giving up her hyper-senses is if she needs to go in the stewpot to feed my baby nephews or something (and at 80lbs, she'd be worth stewing).

Your stealth level can't be that good anyway. No dog barking doesn't mean your chickens will be silent, or your generator if you run it for a few minutes to power the well pump, or the pump itself (surprising how loud they are with no other noises), or a thousand other things.

Solar panels - Any house that looks abandoned is going to lose them quickly, maybe even if it isn't actually abandoned. They are highly visible, and highly useful. I dunno about you, but I have saved Google sat images of a large area around my bug location. Panels show up just fine.

People. You need 2 people with good comms on guard duty 24/7 (4 total working 12/7), just to watch the house, at a BARE minimum. You'll also need lookouts covering work parties, etc. Which means you'll probably have 5-10 people who aren't doing their share of the work (whether that is dedicated individuals or a rotation doesn't matter, the lost hours are the same).

Comms. You can get cordless phones that will work as intercoms without a dial tone. Encrypted, spread-spectrum, cheap, and look a lot more innocuous than a handheld radio. Just need to charge them (or feed them batteries), something even a small panel hidden inside a sun porch can manage.

Hunting. Other than squirrels, that isn't going to last you long. Game goes QUICK when everyone is hungry. Even when there is game, you thought a dog brought attention? A rifle shot in the woods means a good chance that as soon as you get done dressing it out, someone is going to relieve you of your pack full of meat (and your rifle, and maybe your life). Bow/Xbow or deadfalls maybe? Neither are really in my skillset. One takes a LOT of time. The other requires walking your lines every day or your meat goes bad. Suppressed pellet gun for small game would be good to have.

Heat. You don't need it at all in much of the country. We understand insulation. Build appropriately, use less rooms, etc. Of course you'll need to cook and preserve food.
Budxr7
Posts: 104
Incept: 2009-07-08

Mass
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Anybody read the moderna press release? Scheduled production of what? 500 million doses already. Damn confident they are.

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Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
-Polonius
Chromehill
Posts: 56
Incept: 2010-03-03

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All this talk of can't have a generator, dog, can't fire a gun is completely unrealistic. If we go Mad Max, then unless you have a large group of trusted family and friends who are prepared, surviving is going to be based on a lot of luck. If you have a large group of trusted people, in all likeliness you would never have enough supplies for a Mad Max scenario. Very few people would invest the large amount of money and time necessary to have sufficient supplies and skills.

If you are by yourself, roving gangs will kill you and take your stuff if they don't eat you.

Read Patriots by James Wesley Rawles for a taste of Mad Max living in the USA.

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"Power, like the reproductive muscle, longs to be exercised, often without judgement or right" - Gerry Spence
Budxr7
Posts: 104
Incept: 2009-07-08

Mass
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Also, body cam footage of Floyd arrest released. I admittedly haven't looked at it but the claim is he was saying "I can't breath" before they even placed him under arrest. Damn sure sounds like a medical episode he was having and subduing him face down so as not to choke on his puke before the medics arrived is starting to look like protocol. He wasn't going to the clink, they were bringing him to the hospital. Otherwise he woulda been tossed in the cruiser and booked. Where's this one gonna go? Anybody? Bueller?

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Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
-Polonius

Krzelune
Posts: 8164
Incept: 2007-10-08

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Budxr7, Truth is racist and facts are anti-Semitic.
Jeepguy
Posts: 294
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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@Mannfm11
I agree it'll be way different than today, even in today's world teens kill, females always could kill, I have no problems defending mine by any means necessary!

Process the same side after the fact when the night comes, we can't always do what we want!!
Loonster
Posts: 77
Incept: 2012-10-28

West Michigan
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In Iraq, there were plenty of feral dog packs. They are like cannibalistic rats. They will find their own food. One of our platoons adopted a partially domesticated feral dog. That dog would follow the guys around and keep all the truly feral dogs away. He was a godsend.
Jeepguy
Posts: 294
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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@Chromehill stealth levels are that good, then again I grew up in the country and I'll tell you what you get to know the plans you get to know the sounds so any Intruders you generally know that they're there before they do!

neighbors that are having an off-day will be mighty surprised to learn about your presence!

Someone mentioned chickens kind of in defense of the mutts, the majority of the time the chickens actually do not make any noise very rarely!

We've had numerous flocks of chickens since I was a kid and I can assure you just about the only time they would make any noise was specifically if someone strange was around other than that they were pretty quiet!

some roosters are noisier than others but for the most part if there's really nothing to Crow about they just don't crow!

Having a dog...
my point of view on that is literally it is another mouth to feed now if you have a hunting hound or if you have a hound that has a reputation of guarding livestock and I don't mean that you just think it's good with other creatures blah blah blah blah blah know what I mean is it's a ****ing sheepdog or a beagle something that does not bother chickens something that does keep an eye on the property something useful.... Then by all means have a dog...

but keep in mind it is another mouth to feed! Anything that's on your property anything that's in your neighborhood ranging from the animals cheap cars to the lights on in the houses to the chatter of those generator motors towels the hunter-gatherer if not pure criminal types exactly what they want to know from a distance and they don't even have to leave the surrounding woods or the local park to make full-fledged decisions about what it is they want to know all they know is people seem to have supplies...

So they see a bunch of well-fed dogs running around if they notice equipment is being maintained such as cars perhaps even The lawns are getting mowed so that means somebody's got a lawn mower somewhere then hey somebody's not doing too bad right?

So their next step is to figure out what y'all got installed for security do you have guards do you each take shifts they will case you and they don't give a **** if it takes him three weeks to determine they want to know what your strengths and weaknesses are it's basically warfare people!

For the most part it's not going to take the criminal types hiding on the outskirts of your neighborhood any more than 24 to approximately 48 hours to determine what you really do rely on for protection and then they're going to figure out their mode of attack and you'd best be alert!

Keep in mind any individuals happened to get out of prison jail etcetera remember this.... That what you call **** hits the fan they call Tuesday they unfortunately are going to be the stronger individuals than the mass majority of civilians their minds are already psychologically prepared for **** hits the fan cold-blooded this cold-blooded that plotting a strategy to lay low being stealthy knowing when to make a move first off most of these individuals were career criminals before they ended up in those institutions interestingly enough is those institutions offered up more training mostly psychological training which is but the majority of the Spain's never get!

so yes it's sure you might think that you're badass with a gun you might have jerked off to red Dawn and you might enjoy mad Max but the truth and the reality of how you're going to need to handle yourself is going to be quite different your best option is lay low keep your ****ing mouth shut and become a minimalist because when it's time to run you better get off your ass and do it!
Jeepguy
Posts: 294
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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@Elkad
So I guess the gangs and desperate people, people of all walks of life or not going to go break into warehouses and discover cash piles of food and then probably try to kill each other over it?

I guess it's going to be 100% safe to stand out in broad daylight and yell commands at a dog!

I'd like to be that guy's neighbor if I ever decide to switch sides and become an evil cruel person who wants to take everything they have!

First thing to get shot is literally the dog and that could be done at a great distance you'll hear the shot you won't know where the hell it come from bottom line is muttley is dead.. wait a few hours be a darkness slide right up well I'm sorry you're the next Target!

the sheer fact that you were able to maintain that animal as well as the sheer fact that, that animal is nothing more than another ****ing mouth to feed means that you have a level of living that someone else is going to want to take!

Dogs can be useful, however the majority of those activities you wouldn't necessarily be doing in the same fashion that you can probably go out and do right now!

You don't necessarily need a humongously large group of people but what you do need is technically a sense of community so it's not like you're going to totally gather all of your friends and family at your house I mean you I'm sure could attempt but the reality of it is is now it's based on where you live as in right now you need to be out making connections with your friends and neighbors and find out who's on the same page and who is not because that's where the protection of the overall community will come in!

I did see you this way picture of country setting majority of the neighbors agree well here's the deal we all have a viewpoint of the road somewhere we know who comes down that road we can see them and we can also stop them firearms are tools!

Otherwise if you go with the every-man-for-himself policy then actually it's not long before you turn on your neighbors and your neighbors turn on you and then it really is just a complete ****show couple of the bloodbath and there's almost no point in entering that world you would just as well go smoke a 12 gauge right now!!

The truth of it is as you will be looking over your shoulder constantly, this isn't a movie...

Chickens... for the most part chickens aren't as noisy as what a lot of idiots think they are I've had numerous locked since I was a child and I can tell you as I had stated in another comment earlier that most of the time they don't make any noise if the hands are slightly happy they will kind of seeing a little bit but it's usually something you're not going to hear at a great distance...
The rooster as I said previously some roosters can be a bit noisier than others but rule of thumb is if there is really nothing around to Crow about they don't crow and I know that everybody says what I would they do that to maintain their control and their masculinity or what not over the flock of hens blah blah blah yes kind of in then no....

I miss you have a greenhouse on a countryside property and I had chickens and when I had customers coming up to buy vegetable plants if there were no customers there or the customers had been there for a moment the rooster was quiet it's new people pulled up and they got out of the car and especially they wanted to go look at the chickens year and the risk at the roosters going to Crow and he'll Crow often!!

Trust me damn dogs make a lot more noise than chickens!!

I mean by all means do what you like all I'm doing is pointing out the risk that comes with but you're doing.. the reason why I'm pointing out that risk is technically you are right it's your survival in many cases his literally going to depend on luck however your ability to analyze the situation before it even gets started to plot plan adapt and overcome is going to make that luck a lot better if it comes down to your skills most of which at this point need to be thinking skills strategy preparation!!

Reason: Word error
Jeepguy
Posts: 294
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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@Loonster
Yes dogs actually will find their own food the problem is, is when they do that they're actually turning back into a wild animal which means they're not exactly your buddy anymore!

the dog nutters like to believe that their dog actually loves them and has feelings for them and blah blah blah blah blah the reality of it is, is the sumbitch is there and loyal to you only because you're the mother****er feeding it!
Copernicus-usdd
Posts: 53
Incept: 2013-03-08

Houston TX
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My theory is that the apparent insane overvaluation is based on the expectation of some sort of either hyperinflation or straight up default by the US government.
Once that happens...a reset...it will be nasty but those with physical possession of real producing assets in theory would be huge winners.....as opposed to those who own debt against those assets...once the dollar goes to zero a few silvers will wipe out a few billion in debt.

And so...for the last decade...corporations along with the US government have been emitting trillions in low interest debt...all betting that someday it will be zeroed out. Well...that someday is starting to look like a winning bet....covid, 2020 election, China...there are lots active fuses

I kind of doubt it actually end well for stockholders...in a messy world if you can't hold it and/or defend it with a gun...it probably isn't really yours, but they haven't thought that far ahead.

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UsDailyDeficit.com
Apotheoun
Posts: 3833
Incept: 2009-08-14

MN
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This whole ****ing thing is a scam. It's a social experiment and an enormous wealth transfer.

If the markets know this and are correct, then do they expect the country to open back up ASAP?

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Waiting for the third box, I'm done.
Jeepguy
Posts: 294
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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To all, if it really got that bad...
a generator would be useless anyway because chances are you're not going to have any fuel! Also you realize that those engines use motor oil is part of the cooling system so where the hell are you going to buy that out if it really gets that bad?

and I know that most of you were going to sit there and say well will stock up blah blah blah oh yeah well gasoline only keeps for so long and most people forget totally to buy they're not thinking about it until there's a mile long line at gas stations...

Quarts of oil no one ever thinks of those chances are you'll probably forget within 2 hours that we even discussed it!!
Frieza
Posts: 33
Incept: 2019-03-09

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Jeepguy wrote..
When talking even in your house even in the basement you want to maintain low tones you do not want to announce the supplies

If you're in close enough proximity to potential hostiles for this to be an issue, you're already screwed. In a grid-down situation, the whole neighborhood is going to starve at roughly the same time. Some will resort to stealing or killing (percentage likely dependent on local culture - a lot of millennials will just kill themselves or give up without a fight). Somebody will be left standing on top of that heap, but I wouldn't take the over on it being you. And then you have the hoards flooding out of every nearby city, going door to door, breaking into every house regardless of whether it looks like it's populated or like it's been sacked already. Putting up a fight flags you as a high value target, and unless you have a sizable security force with favorable terrain and cover then the more organized groups will eventually either get you or throw a Molotov on your roof in spite.

We've talked about this before. Unless you live way out in the country, trying to defend a building in a grid-down situation has really bad odds - at least until the first few months have passed and the numbers have thinned. Don't plan for that situation. Plan a way to NOT BE in that situation.

Regarding electricity, here are some ideas I don't see mentioned too often.
- Bicycle generator. Very quiet and can be used indoors. You're essentially converting food into electricity, and it's not going to be enough to provide heat or refrigeration unless you have multiple people regularly charging 12v batteries, but you can use it discretionally for power tools, convenience appliances, and entertainment. You can get an off-the-shelf direct drive permanent magnet hub motor and run it through a 3-phase bridge rectifier (like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD1gSx92....) or build something more efficient and ergonomic with a flywheel, like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvEK4I5H.....
- Washing machine turbine. Not feasible for most people; I just think it's really cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb6TIWub....
- Simple well bailer so you don't have to waste energy on a pump (pressurized water is nice, but you can live with a camp shower): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SERwTNJk....
Jeepguy
Posts: 294
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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Here's a picture of Mike dewine, giving his staff lifelong advice!!
Inline
Jeepguy
Posts: 294
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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@Tickerguy a podcast would be great!!
Exelitepwrlftr
Posts: 58
Incept: 2019-12-16

North Carolina
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Quote:
Ammunition availability is how you control guns. Nothing but a club if you don't have ammo.


That's why you need to be able to make your own. I always stock up on raw supplies e.g. gun powder, primers, bullets etc and you can find surplus brass for relatively good prices on Etsy. Yeah, it's a pain in the ass working the brass and reloading but if it's your only option it's well worth the effort.

Tickerguy
Posts: 166194
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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You better have a BOOK (physical) with loading requirements (powder charge with a given powder for given bullet weight, etc)

Oh, it's on the Internet you say? Well, lots of good THAT will do you when the grid is down!

BTW cleaning cases by hand is a bitch. Oh, you have a case vibrator? And it runs on.....?

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 50,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me

Exelitepwrlftr
Posts: 58
Incept: 2019-12-16

North Carolina
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Quote:
You better have a BOOK (physical) with loading requirements (powder charge with a given powder for given bullet weight, etc)


Well, anyone who reloads has the books in hard copy (including me) and I keep my brass ready to go. My daughter and I shoot competitively and have very specific loads for the rifles we use. Of course the brass won't last forever, but at least it gives you a leg up on the folks who don't know how to reload and rely solely on commercial suppliers for their ammo.
Jeepguy
Posts: 294
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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@Frieza
You're not understanding...
the world we live in currently is a bit of a noisy place even in the countryside there is still that inevitable hum...

In the world known as **** hit the fan that hum will largely disappear everything will be so much quieter...

so if you have a tendency to talk loudly even inside the house if anyone is outside the house and you don't know about it even up to 300 feet away at chances are you could be heard so if you're in there screaming all about how you have this amount of ****ing batteries ammunition food water blah blah blah guess what you just gave him a motive to really kill you!


and now just because someone is out there and you may not know it doesn't mean that you are immediately script but making announcements And discussing inventories makes you a little more obvious...

Why risk it when you don't need to or are you one that wants to find out the hard way?
Jeepguy
Posts: 294
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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@Exelitepwrlftr
that's all well and good until you run out of all of those supplies like powder unless you know how to make it...

You can reuse some shell casings however after while you can't...

Chromehill
Posts: 56
Incept: 2010-03-03

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@Budxr7 - Ed Norris is a Baltimore talk show host, former Baltimore PD Commissioner. Back during the Freddie Gray mess, he said many people getting arrested act like they are hurt and often demand medical assistance. This creates a strain on the EMS System.

We are now going to see many people now say they can't breathe as soon as LE touches them.

Reality is, if a person states they cannot breathe that they actually can breathe. You need to breathe to talk.

I had to explain this to my wife and kids about George Floyd when they said, "he said he cannot breathe". Told them, having been a pretty good wrestler in high school, put a nasty half nelson on somebody and squeeze so hard with the goal of causing them to pass out or done to you, you know what it feels like.

Know for a fact if you can talk you can breathe. Pointed out, problem with George Floyd is, after 30 seconds of no noise or activity, you have to realize their might be a problem or at a minimum the situation is under control and the choke hold can be released.

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"Power, like the reproductive muscle, longs to be exercised, often without judgement or right" - Gerry Spence
Exelitepwrlftr
Posts: 58
Incept: 2019-12-16

North Carolina
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Interesting story about my daughter. She's been competing with high power rifles since she was 12. She'll outshoot the majority of men and boy oh boy does that******them off. She's even quite skilled with offhand shooting out to 200 yards.

My range has 2 x 1000 yard ranges with steel targets but you need to be qualified and certified by the owner or one of the ROs given how dangerous it can be if you don't know how to apply the concept of MOA or MILS when shooting long range. My daughter wanted to get qualified so we setup a date/time for her to meet the RO and have at it.

On the day we happened to arrive early and spent a little time over at the pistol range while we were waiting for her turn to be qualified. While there, we were talking with some current Army guys and it came out that my daughter was going to attempt to qualify on the 1000 yard range. Mind you she was 13 at the time. Needless to say, they all looked at her with disbelief and it was obvious they all thought she had no chance of passing.

Armed with my custom .308 and DOPE book, she heads off to the range with the RO and I tagged along just to be there for moral support. I wasn't allowed to have any dialogue with her during the qualification run.

RO tells her to shoot the steel target at 300 yards. Mind you, out to 600 the range has 7" x 12" AR500 targets and beyond 600 they're 18" x 30". Anyway, she checks my dope book, dialed up the scope and sends one downrange - GONG. Center mass hit.

RO says OK Paige, shoot the 600 yard target. Once again, she consults my DOPE book, dials up the scope and sends a shot downrange. GONG! Center mass hit.

RO says OK Paige - shoot the 1000 yard target. Once again, she consults my DOPE, dials up the scope and sends it downrange. Perfect elevation, just left of target by about 3". He tells her to send another round. GONG!! Center mass hit at 1000 yards and only took her 4 shots to qualify. RO looks at her and asks her how old she is to which she replies 13. He shook his head and says you've just done what over 90% of grown men can't do in only 4 shots. Heh, that girl knows how to shoot a rifle.

Afterwards we head back down to the pistol range and the Army guys ask her how it went. They assumed she failed given we weren't gone for very long. When they heard the story they were all dumbfounded to say the least. Happy to have that girl on my team ANY day. And she maintains her own guns in terms of stripping them down, cleaning etc. She's 18 now and more skilled with guns than the majority of men are.
Exelitepwrlftr
Posts: 58
Incept: 2019-12-16

North Carolina
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I've been able to reuse my brass up to 20 times if you know what you're doing and how to maintain it properly although you are correct, eventually supplies will run out, it is what it is but that's true for everyone.

If TSHTF, it's about luck, having a competitive advantage and your determination to survive. Nobody can ever be 100% prepared for an apocalyptic event but you CAN give yourself a leg up on the competition.
Exelitepwrlftr
Posts: 58
Incept: 2019-12-16

North Carolina
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And I know Karl will point out that you need to have the capability to anneal the brass and that requires heat which requires a source of fuel so there is that if you expect a long shelf life from your brass. ;)
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