Mueller -- And The DOJ -- Dies On The Hill
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2019-07-24 13:41 by Karl Denninger
in Corruption , 324 references Ignore this thread
Mueller -- And The DOJ -- Dies On The Hill
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Ouch.

As has been pointed out multiple times there is a presumption of innocence for all criminal investigations.

The prosecutor must find evidence of guilt sufficient to sustain a prosecution.  This is well beyond probable cause; that just gets you a search warrant.  To actually sustain a prosecution you actually need something beyond a preponderance of evidence -- but exactly how far you must get beyond that point is a prosecutorial decision, mostly grounded in how much risk the department is willing to take of losing at trial.

Then the jury (or judge, if the accused so chooses) must find sufficient evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

There's a reason that if you get charged on a federal crime 99% of the time you're screwed; the prosecutors know these are the rules and they require well beyond "a preponderance of the evidence" before bringing a charge in the first place -- in no small part because the prestige and authority of their office rests primarily on only charging that which they are quite sure they can win convictions on.

There is not only no authority to "imply" guilt there is no authority to write a report implying same.

It's illegal to do so under the presumption that all persons have of innocence which, if rebutted by evidence, leads to a criminal charge.

You either charge a crime or you don't.

That's the beginning and end of the debate.

Mueller walked up this hill and literally died on it.  He was forced to admit he could not cite a single regulation, law or practice within the DOJ for what he wrote in the second part of the report.

That's because legally what he did was void.

Worse, as an official act of the DOJ, undertaken under great scrutiny and with the full authority of same, such an action has permanently destroyed any claim to legitimacy the DOJ ever had. It is a void entity.  No person in this nation has any obligation to give it any credibility of any kind ever again until and unless Mueller and everyone involved in his activity goes to prison.

Which won't happen.

This nation and its claim to authority under the rule of law collapsed today.

Literally.

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Wifi
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Seagrove Beach
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The whole **** show looks bad, I expect the Dem's to double, and triple down though. The "investigation was a sham".

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Tickerguy
Posts: 158609
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A True American Patriot!
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@Wifi -- they're going to provoke an all-on civil war with this crap. I wouldn't call it a witch hunt but I would call it malicious prosecution.

Which, incidentally, is worse, because in the case of malicious prosecution the entire process is bankrupt, the "prosecutor" and "cops" are nothing more than armed thugs, and engaging in such an act is treading extraordinarily close to the line where preemptively stopping them -- and being downright medieval about it so nobody else DARES try it again -- becomes not only excusable but a moral and ethical imperative.

What's potentially even worse is that this entire charade has laid bare the USGov's propensity to do this sort of **** for political reasons not only here but abroad! That's how you get no-bull**** wars -- not civil unrest and similar, but Archduke Ferdinand sort of events and all that follows from them.

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Winding it down.

Ocdawg
Posts: 16
Incept: 2019-03-14

WI- Home of undoing good....
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I watched the ****show all day... comments:

KD... agree, we are destroyed
Mueller- senile, incompetent and unaware
Mueller did NOT write the report, it's painfully obvious, knows nothing within it
Schiff- should be lead away in handcuffs NOW, never produced his "evidence"
Dems- now the narrative is Trump et al.'s "bad efforts" during the election, NOT collusion
Nunes- pounding away every point as false, just as since Day 1
Why only Reps were indicted/convicted, NO Dems... and no answers
I NEVER thought the Dems would be so badly exposed... and CONTINUE to pile up "I'm a complete dumbbass" points
Schiff didn't cancel Mueller's embarrassing testimony for the afternoon session, proving he's even incapable of taking a **** and hitting the floor

EDIT (UPDATE):
Mueller- it's not "collusion, its "conspiracy" that Rep Welch actually had to remind the drooling moron
Dems now say Trump was "greedy" and a "bad American"... whew, that's worth $30 million....

Sadly, it's all Kobuki... nothing will come of it... time to cock and lock....

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Iou
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The Twilight Zone
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This is an embarrassment for all the world to see. USA is officially a banana republic. Look in the mirror for who to blame.

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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."- Frdric Bastiat
Ktrosper
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ft collins co
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Emperor has no clothes, and the entire world sees it.
This nation is lost.
War is on the horizon, not sure how far out, nobody can know that...
I think we'll run on "muscle memory" for a while, but rest assured it'll all break down.

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The unexamined life is not worth living.-Socrates
The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle
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Tdurden
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Either Mueller has always been an empty suit and spent a career being a figurehead for upper tier bureaucrats, or he is in desperate need of some close family member to keep an eye on him. I'm talking "This is going to suck, but we need to take Grandpa's car keys or yank the ignition module from his Buick before someone gets hurt" kind of intervention.

Aside from that, I hope these clowns realize the damage they have done because they just couldn't get their hands around the concept that an election didn't go their way. As far as Trump goes, I can take him or leave him, but I will NEVER accept another democrat as being a legitimate president again. Why should I? Their current poster boy from indiana has already come out and called everyone who votes for Trump a direct supporter of white supremacy terrorism. And this is supposed to be one of their more touchy-feely appealing to the soccer mom types. Of course we all know that you can't ignore all those white supremacists and leave them to just go about their business. They need to be dealt with.

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"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next 10 generations that some favors come with too high of a price." -Vir Cotto Babylon 5
Whitehat
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Gone West
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easy to understand. the left has a philosophy of the ends justify the means. most left wing takeovers of countries are preceded by the loss of the rule of law. usually after corruption and abuse of authority the country gets murder of individuals opposed to the left, then mass killing. we know which side usually wins. welcome to Central and South America.

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Xqqme
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Ohio
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The Dems want to hold Trump to a higher standard? (as if THEY have moral authority to set the standard) Simply calling actions, 'unethical' (subjective) is enough to Impeach?
What color is the sky where they live? Waste of time!
Stee_man
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Half the population are lost children with no moral compass. It's okay to insinuate and lie, the ends justify the means. Accusation = guilt, your gender is whatever you wish, debt and natural resources are endless wells, it's okay to break the law if you are either wealthy or poor.

I blame the media and their controllers. They can just ban you from the discussion, which is not a discussion -- it's a one-way lecture. I applaud Karl and others for continuing to raise awareness. Unfortunately I think all we are doing is raising awareness with each other.
Themortgagedude
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Saint Charles MO
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I watched damn little of it. But from what I read it's what I expected. Democrats trying to make points about obstruction and put words in Mueller's mouth. Mueller saying damn near nothing. And Republicans hammering the **** of him.

What I was surprised about is that Bob looked out of place and out of sorts. He looked inept and incompetent. If he ever had a fastball he's lost it.

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I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Dbigkahunna
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Giant Side of Texas
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As of today, any federal law enforcement officer who stays working is as devoid of ANY integrity. Staying on is acceptance of the end of equil protection and enforcement of our laws. Today laid bare the complete lack of morality and fairness of federal law enforcement. ALL FBI agents that continue to draw a check are nothing. Same for the rest of federal law officers. Completely void of integrity.

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If your gonna grow up stupid
Ya better grow up tough
Gonewest
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PacificNW
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Agree that Mueller and everyone involved should go to prison.

In addition, since Mueller and his team in no way had any authorization to write volume 2 of the report, they should be responsible for reimbursing the total cost of producing volume 2.

It is high time we make them, and their families, feel the pain of their actions. And no, I'm not being cruel to their families. They would probably be hurt economically by such action. But Mueller and anyone who tries this in the future will need to consider that their family will be impacted before participating in these types of heinous activities.

But I'm not going to hold my breath.
Flyanddive
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Detroit
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Mueller is not senile. He faces criminal indictment if he knows that Fusion GPS created a false document, which they did.

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"I've seen people go into real poverty trying to pretend to be rich."
Bagbalm
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Just North of Detroit
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"Unfortunately I think all we are doing is raising awareness with each other."
Yep the internet lets people find like minded folks, but is very poor at actually changing anyone's opinions. It happens - but so does getting struck by lightning.
Amused
Posts: 147
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I like being a contrarian, so anything Article One can do to reign in Article Two, even if it means putting on this **** show, I think is a good thing.

Congress abdicated it's powers of oversight, it's role as 'The Republic' as Article One because writing legislation would be too much like real work.

'Well meaning' liberals created this mess because it was easier to punt the ball to Executive Regulatory Tyranny than to write real law and make the hard choices to not be beholden to political winds.

If it takes more **** like this for Congress to discover it's proper role in the order of the Constitution in an attempt to reign in the Levathan they created by enlarging Article Two's power.

So be it.

While they are busy doing this **** show they are not busy passing more Legislation robbing us of our Liberty and they are not further strengthing Regulatory Tyranny.

If the Republic falls because of this, we didn't deserve it anyway.
Twainfan2
Posts: 50
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There is zero chance Mueller wrote that report. He clearly knew nothing of what was in it or where to find anything they were referencing. I wondered if he has Alzheimer's or something because there was no one home in his head.

At least a few repubs hammered him on some of the issues.. esp that nonsense about exonerating Trump.

Unfortunately, no one of importance will ever be charged in this mess...
Tickerguy
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#vealfirst

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Winding it down.
Asimov
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East Tennessee
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Quote:
It is high time we make them, and their families, feel the pain of their actions.


If you plan on the current system doing your bidding, you're going to be disappointed.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Tickerguy
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A True American Patriot!
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True that

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Winding it down.
Gonewest
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PacificNW
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@Asimov wrote:
Quote:
If you plan on the current system doing your bidding, you're going to be disappointed.


I won't be disappointed. I'm not planning on the system doing anything other than continuing to screw everyone.

I have maintained among my friends that nothing will change until "bullets fly and people die". And honestly, I don't think even that will change anything. It may reverse some of the decay. But after it's done, the same thing will happen all over again. History repeats because people are too stupid to learn (I could just stop there) from the past.
Greyhound
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The hearings prove to both the Left and Right
the power of the Left. Every person on the Right knows the law means nothing and so does Left. The law, truth, means nothing. The is the new consensus. The lawless Left will do what it wants. And to avoid their wrath, everyone will now obey their authority.
Wileycoyote40
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Incept: 2018-05-05

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The Special Counsel or DOJ - do not exonerate - they either charge you or dont. Have you ever heard a prosecutor say oh we cant charge him because we proved he was innocent?

Additionally - Mueller is not my hero - I thought he may be unethical - but his performance shows he may be suffering from diminished mental capacity or at the least didnt write the report.

Never meet your heroes, because they're sure to disappoint you
Quik49
Posts: 6042
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Palmetto State Armory

Line one

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Long Vaseline....

Tsherry
Posts: 1991
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Spokane WA
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I guess the goal now is to see how less ****ed I can be vs. other people.

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Omne mendacium est.
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