Shutdowns, The IRS And Stupidity of Americans
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2019-01-06 10:35 by Karl Denninger
in Editorial , 277 references Ignore this thread
Shutdowns, The IRS And Stupidity of Americans
[Comments enabled]

So the IRS won't pay refunds during the shutdown eh?

Representative Richard Neal, a Democrat who is the new chairman of the House of Representatives tax-writing committee, expressed concern that the IRS, the U.S. tax agency, has already furloughed most of its work force and stopped issuing tax refunds since the partial government shutdown began Dec. 22.

I will tell you that they have no problem cashing your checks -- or issuing TINs.

In fact Thursday they issued two to me for two estates I'm managing.  The usual web-based service worked as it always does and immediately spat back the confirmation and forms with the numbers on them.

I'm sure they will have no problem cashing my quarterly estimated check too.

If they won't pay refunds, which are not their money, but will take money then the American people's response ought to be an immediate General Strike, right now, end of discussion.  It's not their money.

If you walked into a store and bought something for $9.45, they took your $10 bill and then refused to give you the change after accepting the $10, which formed a contract to return the excess funds, you'd likely to ballistic right there at the checkstand.

Well?

Never mind that essentially nobody can file right now anyway because they don't have their 1099s or W2s yet.  Unless you made them up, of course, which probably means you're an illegal invader who's committing tax fraud as your second illegal act in the United States.  Gee, how come those people don't go to jail?

But we're Ball-less Americanus these days, aren't we?

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Aztrader
Posts: 8179
Incept: 2007-09-10

Scottsdale, AZ
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Most of these refunds are not from taxpaying Americans. Most of those folks won't even have their W2 or 1099's until the end of the month. The refunds that the media is screaming about are the EITC credit for the leeches. Millions of them simply have someone make up a 1099 so that they can file immediately and apply for the tax credit. States in the deep south are where a lot of this occurs. I know of someone personally that used this ruse to steal money from the taxpayers. They think because they are poor, it's their right and this is the message the left has sent to so many of these folks.
This is how tens of thousands of illegals get paid under this credit. If they have an anchor brat, then it's easy because they use the kids SS#. The Obama clown running the IRS was paying illegals based on them having their kids here. I heard that some had claimed as many as 10 minor kids in the family that should be audited immediately. The fraud exceeds $5 billion a year. The IRS needs to require that if you are self employed and use a 1099 as your income basis, then copies of the checks and deposits of those checks should be shown. That would be very difficult for most of them committing fraud in order to qualify for the EITC. A large chunk of these refunds are stolen from the taxpayer and the current IRS completely ignores it. I am betting that they even get large blocks of these requests come from the same city or even single addresses that do the paperwork. We have a business in Mesa called TIN credit and they are a mill for the EITC. The graft is substantial and with the left running the house, will only get worse.
Tickerguy
Posts: 155672
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Yep -- as of right now nobody has a W2 or 1099. They don't have to be mailed until Jan 31, and most of them aren't. Most will go out in the last week.

But heh, if you can cheat and steal, why not? That's what America is right now -- the land of the scam and steal.

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Winding it down.
Mj71
Posts: 196
Incept: 2009-03-14

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The H&R Block and Jackson Hewitt's of the world make ALL of their money on Refund Advance loans. No 1099 or W2 needed. Just bring in your latest pay stub. Oh, pay no attention to that 39.5% interest rate... smiley

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And... It's gone.
Aztrader
Posts: 8179
Incept: 2007-09-10

Scottsdale, AZ
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Saw some woman on FB hawking pay stubs. The graft is out in the open is insane. Just google fake ID's and see all the sites that come up.
Mangymutt
Posts: 810
Incept: 2015-05-03

Vancouver WA
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Not to take away from Aztrader's nice and correct rant above, but you can get a pretty close approximation from your last 2018 pay stub, which is one of the reason the women Aztrader in above post is in business.

On an aside note. One of the reasons people may want to file early is to lock the account. If I use someone else's aSS # and file before them, there is a good chance they will need to file a bunch of paperwork to correct what is in essence an IRS problem.

However if you file early, even if you do not fill correctly, the IRS should see the Number has been used for this year and should prevent someone else from being able to use it. And you can always amend your taxes at a later date.

Bad guys, do this for a living and have nothing to lose. Really nothing to lose. And don't think for a second there is not an army of people willing to help illegals file taxes....... for a fee.
Asimov
Posts: 110379
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee Eastern Time
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I was told that refunds will go out just fine, only the eitc will be delayed until the government restarts.

Absolutely no confidence in the source because I don't know the source.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Thomasblair
Posts: 115
Incept: 2009-04-03

NC
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Hey Tickerguy - Why does it take the whole month of January for businesses to issue W-2s? Is it a case of "it's not due until the 31st and other things come first" or is there a small piece of the puzzle that actually takes 3-4 weeks to close out?

Same for HSA's, trading accts, mortgage interest statements, etc. Does it really take that long?
Tickerguy
Posts: 155672
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Thomasblair -- it's not particularly unreasonable. Transactions can be posted on December 31st, and they have to (potentially) clear in the case of a check deposit or similar. It DOES take a bit of time to close the books and verify any transactions that are questionable. Then you have to print and mail the forms, and the P/O has to deliver them.

I've had to file amended returns several times due to REVISED 1099s that showed up in MARCH or even APRIL! That's not the brokerage's fault -- it's the upstream from them (e.g. business that paid a dividend, etc) and then they wind up sending me a revised one. If that happens AFTER you filed you get to go file a revised return, EVEN IF THE TAX AMOUNT HASN'T CHANGED. If you don't you'll get audited because the IRS data and what you submitted doesn't match; after April 15th passes they run a data match and then around July/August the audit notices start going out.

I had the IRS *lose* two checks over the years and then started demanding that I pay them. In both cases I had proof they cashed it of course since I had the canceled check back. They ****ed it up both times -- and did fix it, but believe me, it was a 5-alarm pain in the ASS to get them to run it down. In both cases they posted the check on the wrong account.

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Winding it down.
Little_eddie
Posts: 1193
Incept: 2009-04-30

Delaware
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And if you do things with Treasury Direct in December it may be a year or more before the information gets to the IRS.

Once I had to cash a bunch of over 30 year old paper bonds, it took over 3 years to get everything fixed. They send me the money I owned them back because they didn't have a record of it yet, Then asked for part of it back each of the next 3 years as they balanced their books.

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. - George Carlin

Tickerguy
Posts: 155672
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Oh there's a hellish scam that I know about and which frequently works. A citizen is taking a horrid risk by trying it, but an illegal... not so much.

It requires some information you have to do some work to get in order to pull it off, but it's not at all hard to steal $30 or $40k from the IRS this way. They'll eventually figure it out but whether they'll actually toss anyone in prison for it is another matter.

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Winding it down.
Magus
Posts: 2625
Incept: 2008-05-04

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I am very good at estimating my taxes and generally will owe or be due a refund of say $200 bucks or less and usually my state taxes go the other way so net net its a non-event. I'm not sure why most people let uncle sam have a 0% interest loan all year and then are excited to get a big refund in 1Q.

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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."

-~~Ludwig V
Ckaminski
Posts: 5069
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because most of boobus americanus can't be assed to save money and the "refund" is a free-money gift. I'm like you, Magus. i routinely owe a small amount every year. A couple hundred dollars or so,
Mannfm11
Posts: 5461
Incept: 2009-02-28

DFW, Tx
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They never miss a chance to get a lie into the dishonest media. 2018 books are barely closed. Now the overpaid Federal bureaucracy is going to miss a check and go to the poor house, only for many to get paid later for time off? Hock something. If they can't miss a check, they are too stupid to hold an important job and likely dead wood.

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Acebarefoot
Posts: 440
Incept: 2009-05-20


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Yeah...I am having a hard time feeling sorry for them.
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