The Federal Government Is Illegitimate
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2018-08-31 09:40 by Karl Denninger
in Corruption , 2512 references Ignore this thread
The Federal Government Is Illegitimate
[Comments enabled]

It no longer enforces the law.

It now allows any large company to simply pay the direct costs of any felony misconduct, if caught, and walk off.  We have seen this thousands of times.  It is an unbroken string of conduct.  During the financial blow up they did it with every bank that had ripped off the people, and in fact paid them in the form of below-market loans (in some cases basically free!) to further enable them to operate after their fraud-laced schemes blew up in their faces.  They have done the same with pharma, and they don't even bother indicting medical providers and hospitals.

And now we have this:

“The non-prosecution agreement requires Waste Management to continue its substantial remedial measures to address all past immigration violations and forfeit more than $5.5 million in proceeds gained from hiring an illegal workforce at the Afton location,” said U.S. Attorney Ryan K. Patrick, U.S. Southern District of Texas. “In considering whether to enter into such agreements, we must take into account the collateral consequences that a criminal prosecution would have on the company’s contracts with many municipalities across the country and the thousands of employees for the conduct of three managers at one operating unit in Houston.”

The entire point of criminal prosecution is collateral consequences!

If you or I did the same thing our business would be destroyed.  On purpose.  What this statement says is that it is policy of our government to never impose said consequences on large companies -- at worst they pay for the direct costs of their criminal conduct, but never more, and never are they closed.

Of course criminals are not always caught, which means if you break the law five times and get caught twice you screw people successfully three out of five times and only have to pay back the direct theft the other two times.

No ordinary person ever gets such deference.

How many anchor babies were pooped out and then collected welfare as a result of this?  How many of them (all) have consumed public resources -- schooling, medical care, etc -- while they would have never existed and such spending would not have happened but for the illegal conduct of this company.

Criminal prosecution is supposed to impose a wildly disparate punishment on purpose so it's not worth it.  If I can hold up a bank and if caught only have to pay back what I stole, with no other penalty, I will hold up a bank right now, I will do it again tomorrow, and I will do it again every single damn day because I never go to prison and I never have to fork up more than I stole.  If I get away with it then the money is mine and if not I simply give it back.

Our government is no longer legitimate; it has declared itself illegitimate with that above paragraph.  You no longer have any obligation to obey any law and you have every right to demand the same deference Waste Management got here and enforce that through whatever means are necessary.

PS: This is Trump's administration now, so **** him sideways for this horse**** -  he doesn't give a **** about illegals working or companies exploiting same and screwing Americans out of jobs.

Or dead college-age women.

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Flappingeagle
Posts: 2851
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Quote:
In considering whether to enter into such agreements, we must take into account the collateral consequences that a criminal prosecution would have on the companys contracts with many municipalities across the country and the thousands of employees for the conduct of three managers at one operating unit in Houston.


Karl you are ****ing-Triple-A-Right about the collateral consequences.

This is the huge advantage that large corporations have that make them above the law. No death penalty, no going to jail, and most importantly no large enough penalties to discourage bigger always being better. It has now, and has been, at the point where the bigger you are the less you get penalized.

Somehow, we need to rein in corporations. That is going to require some balls that the government does not seem to have.

Flap

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Asimov
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Quote:
Somehow, we need to rein in corporations. That is going to require some balls that the government does not seem to have.


If you don't rein in the government first, it's not possible to rein in the corporations.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Mangymutt
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You speak of collateral consequences.

People coming here illegally. But need to stay, because they are collateral consequences.

People stealing from the social programs. But that's ok, because of the collateral consequences.

State governments openly stealing from tax payers. But that's ok, because of the collateral consequences the above social program thieves might suffer.

You working on a home project and cut your finger, drive yourself the hospital to get stitches (I believe you would more than likely take care of it yourself though) will get pulled over and ticket for speeding and probably distracted driving. To hell with your collateral consequences.

Enforce the laws and many of the collateral consequences disappear. Someone forcing their underage child to make a dangerous and illegal trip, will probably leave the child in a safe location, if they decide to make the trip them self.

Welfare cheats, will have to decide how they will make enuff money to live.

Governments will not openly steal from us

And you would probably get a police escort to the hospital as the police are sworn to "Protect and Serve"

When considering collateral consequences people often do not realize for every winner on that argument their has to be a loser.



Wa9jml
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DeKalb, Illinois
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I once read a quotation attributed to the great British legal philosopher, Blackstone. It went something like, The chief problems with corporations is that they have no necks to hang, and no souls to damn.

Not much has apparently changed in corporate law enforcement since this was written in the 18th Century.
Robodog
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These illegal actions committed by Waste Management's manglers managers is not their first felony. A little over sixteen years ago they were caught red-handed and prosecuted by the SEC not for accounting errors (which are unintentional & not illegal), rather for irregularities, i.e. fraud, which are criminal. See: sec.gov/news/headlines/wastemgmt6.htm

I suppose though it's really not all that surprising considering their industry and it being very likely they do know where the bodies are buried.

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Jdough
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The federal government has long been the enforcement arm of the big companies. The big companies write the legislation, their senior managers end up in charge of agencies because of their "experience" (in screwing us), and those who may want to rein them in are simply bought off or blackmailed into playing ball.

This will end, one way or another. But the when, how, and how messy are still very much open questions.

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Comrader
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all trump has to do is look out the window in D.C.at any government building under construction. All the trades working on these high paying jobs are using illegals. some crews are all mostly illegals. this according to someone i trust.
Tickerguy
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Oh giant flaming meteor of death please come now

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Winding it down.
Billz
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Quote:
all trump has to do is look out the window in D.C.at any government building under construction. All the trades working on these high paying jobs are using illegals. some crews are all mostly illegals. this according to someone i trust.

I can verify that. Pretty much all construction I see in the DC area is 90%+ Spanish only speaking.
Elkad
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Anecdotally, I'm happy my nephew-in-law won't be jobless and leaving my niece and their kids unsupported (temporarily) by the destruction of his employer.

Of course someone has to pick up the trash, so he could likely roll into whatever company replaces it. Or wrench on trucks for any of a million other places - good diesel mechanics don't stay unemployed.
Aquapura
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Quote:
I can verify that. Pretty much all construction I see in the DC area is 90%+ Spanish only speaking.


Slightly off topic but construction is an industry where common sense would make you think the Unions would be all about Trump's build the wall and stop illegal immigration. A lot of those jobs are skilled and pay livable wages. Good plumbers, electricians, welders, carpenters are all paid very well and a lot are Union employees. This is not a bar code scanner at Kroger.

Illegal invaders work cheap and are non-union. This hits those Unions right in the balls yet their ridiculous ideology keeps them from the common sense of supporting their own survival.
Bodhi
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Georgia
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Illegal invaders work cheap and are non-union.


I'm reminded of my early work days after high school. I worked as an apprentice carpenter for about 6 months. I was a member of the carpenter's union in SoCal. I worked on a number of apartment rehabs in downtown LA near USC. One day a union steward showed up on one of my jobs and wanted to see all the workers' union cards. The drywall crew was a bunch of non-union guys from Argentina getting paid cash. They all dove out the windows and scattered to the wind. When the steward left the drywall crew all came back and continued working as if nothing had happened. At the tender age of 20 I got a first-hand education in illegal immigration 101.
Whitehat
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it is often said that the shareholders are only interested in their investments and actually prefer that the corporations influence peddle and break all sorts of laws for success. the executives and boards also are beholden to the shareholder value equation, blah, blah. if the corporation is prosecuted under the existing laws, it faces operational issues. if some business interruption occurs, there is loss of income, contract parties such as municipalities litigate for their damages, vendors are not paid and the entity faces bankruptcy or at minimum severe damage. the shareholders take it up the ass and then hold the board and execs accountable for damaging their investments, problem solved.

oh, but GM, banks, Chrysler (2,3 4 times), so we will not let things fail when they should.

i personally will not support any sort of employer enforcement or legislation regarding the illegal hiring issue unless it involves penalty and interest and full liability for past illegal behavior from the largest corporate to the smallest business with no avenue for negotiating reduced liability. if there is no penalty for past illegal behavior, we do not have the rule of law, just a seeking of the easiest way out of a problem. this latest giveaway to a large corp discussed here gives the justification for thousands of businesses to never be prosecuted for their illegal hiring actions.

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Krzelune
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For decades the neoCONs/Repub blue-bloods have been gutting corporate regulations and turning a blind eye to all sorts of malfeasance by big business. At the same time the libs have been infiltrating the big corporate world and other national institutions with their socialism and social justice bull****. All while both sides of the isle rake in donations and investments as the country turns third world.
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