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2018-02-11 09:40 by Karl Denninger
in Social Issues , 284 references Ignore this thread
So Now We Can't Make Inquiries?
[Comments enabled]

It's no longer considered acceptable to make an inquiry, or to compile mathematical or scientific facts, when race is at issue.

A science fair project at a California high school faced criticism earlier this week after it compared race and IQ levels in connection to participation in an elite program at the school, The Sacramento Bee reported Saturday.

The project, titled “Race and IQ,” was put together by a C.K. McClatchy High School student who is part of the school’s elite Humanities and International Studies Program. It was displayed in the fair on Monday, the outlet said.

In comparing intelligence levels, the project reportedly questioned whether particular races were smart enough for the school’s magnet program and whether a racial disparity was justified.

The hypothesis under test was that if the average IQ of various subgroups of the population is lower, then a disproportionate representation in a particular gifted program is justified.

That sounds like something quite worth studying.  See, there are multiple reasons for such a disproportionate representation in a program in which an admission criteria is to be materially on the right end of the bell curve of intelligence.  Some of them implicate discrimination.  Others do not.

One that would not is that the centerpoint of said bell curve for a given subgroup of the population lies either higher or lower than the overall median (100, in the case of IQ.)

This, apparently, is no longer a testable hypothesis in America: The exhibit was removed from the science fair and, apparently, the school says they're taking the fact that it was present "very seriously", implying that there is some disciplinary action coming for the mere fact of making scientific inquiry.

This nation is done folks, and as for California and Sacramento, they just earned a permanent blackball for any of their students, past, present or future, irrespective of their race, in any firm I ever have a hiring role in from this day forward.

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Flappingeagle
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To admit that there is a difference is to admit that a large portion of the money spent on head start,... has been wasted. To admit there is a difference also would mean putting an end to however many years of demanding equality of outcomes.

There is only one way to move forward as a society, treat everyone as an individual. Give every individual the same rights and responsibilities and then let them find their own way.

I know this is not popular with some people but I am a supporter of public education for the purposes of education not indoctrination. Public education should strive to put a fairly similar base under everyone on which they can build if they want to. Then you move on to college. Being able to flip pizzas and pay for college was the real "equal opportunity." It was color blind and it let those who could and who wanted to work get a college education: a true meritocracy.

Flap

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S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
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Tickerguy
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Quote:
Being able to flip pizzas and pay for college was the real "equal opportunity." It was color blind and it let those who could and who wanted to work get a college education: a true meritocracy.

Yep. And now that's gone.

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Winding it down.
Riverbarrow
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Well then....they should let very low IQ students into their elite Humanities and International Studies program. Why should they discriminate based on grades or any other criteria? Thats racist!
Mangymutt
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My personal belief is a test designed to measure something abstract as intelligence is flawed from the beginning, as there are too many variables that are difficult to measure in the first place.

With that being said, if Karl has a business and 3 people from Ticker Form apply for the position and we all come in pretty damn equal on the application and interview, I could see an IQ test being the deciding factor.

I can not see why using the above hypnosis would be wrong and it would be interesting to see where the results led.

But this is taking place in a public school in California so you can expect dumb things to happen when it comes to IQ

My opinion is there is way to much involved in "intelligence" to be decided by any one test, but to exclude the results of any viable test is also not right.
Tickerguy
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That's not the question. The question is whether you can draw a plausible inference as to the reason for under-representation or "disparity" in the number of people in a program targeted specifically toward the far right end of the bell curve if it's midpoint is not in the same place for all sub-populations.

First-semester statistics says that not only can you but that the number of people at or above a specific cut-off, when that cut-off is beyond the SD for the population as a whole, is likely to be WILDLY disparate.

Consider three sub-populations -- one with a median IQ or 100, one with a median of 105 and one with a median of 95. These seem like immaterial differences, and IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE MEDIAN, they are as they're WELL within the 1SD for all three groups.

Now let's change the conditions of the examination. Let's assume that the "bar" to get in to some class or program is an IQ of 120. Let's also assume that the SD on IQ is such that to have an IQ of 120 on a median of 100 means you're in the top 1% of the population.

What percentage of people in the sub-group with a median of 95 are >= 120? That answer is probably going to make you mad. Likewise, if you're in the group with a median of 105 you'll be grossly OVERrepresented -- not a little bit, a LOT.

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Winding it down.

Spanktron9
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Yup. This is the opposite hypothesis posed by James Damore (Ex-Gooogle employee and author of the infamous "memo"). He dared posit that the under-representation of woman in STEM may be a result of interests and goals rather than simply discrimination. For this, he was summarily fired. Even though the social science on this shows CLEAR gender correlation in the most egalitarian societies (Scandanavian).

If you listen to Jordan Peterson, this leads to a very bad place.

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Cerich
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I can't help but wonder if it was a study to show why more African Americans played pro basketball if the reaction would be the same. Comparing physiology, socio economics (more means often means more distraction) etc. God knows that equestrian success is directly tied to means more than the person on the back of the million dollar plus horse..just saying

Click
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Race and IQ"

The truth cannot be told because is would destroy the Progressive narritave, i.e., " we are all just one race, the 'human race' and 'diversity' is what makes us great".

That sounds nice ( because it's partly true) but individualism and individual rights and the ability to freely pursue happiness are what constitutes liberty and "greatness". Liberty includes the freedom to choose who (including a person's race) I choose to marry, raise a family, have as a friend and, yes, do business with....

If a white girl turns me on and a black girl doesn't, nobody is going to tell me I'm a bad person because of my sexual preferences.. You can go **** your gay-ass self, and leave me alone to be free to choose.

The truth is an individual's race goes way, way beyond skin color. A good example of this is the genetic superiority of the American Indian's ability to taste. For example, penylthiocarbamide is a compound that 98% of Native Americans can taste vs a much lower number your race is black.

I'm white. Is it my ****ing fault the black race can't taste as well as other races --- including mine? I'm sure somebody out there thinks so... And, if you ask me, the black race cannot out think, out work or out taste the Asians, either.

There's more.
; a lot more recent discovery. And more discovery is taking place every day.

"Today we know that the ability to taste PTC (or not) is conveyed by a single gene that codes for a taste receptor on the tongue. The PTC gene, TAS2R38, was discovered in 2003."

Like it or not, the truth hurts. And the truth is not all men ( including races ) are created equal. Equal in rights. Yes. But not equal in physical and mental ability....

And don't blame me or my race for your problems. Talk to God or Mother Nature... Personally, I'm a little pissed off that my Native American stepfather can naturally out-taste me in a sommelier contest, but I'll get over it ...

Emg
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The left can't admit that we're not 'all the same under the skin', or their entire ideology collapses. They will fight reality to the death.

Lobo
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1984: Orwell was a bit early.

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Village Idiot
Bagbalm
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This doesn't go ANYWHERE they want to go. Even worse for their belief system is it might show that not everyone is
Flappingeagle
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There is a percentage of our population who demands equality and diversity. Aren't those two the opposite of each other? No wonder they are schizophrenic. Maybe it was the other way around: schizophrenic first.

Flap

----------
Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
No sign that housing, equities, or farmland are in a bubble- Yellen 11/14/13
Trying to leave the Rat Race to the rats...
Demosthenes
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They don't like us asking questions. They want us turning to the people in charge for ready-to-dispense answers. Questions imply they don't have the answers, and that we can find them on our own.

I think, like MangyMutt, that the hypothesis asks the wrong questions. Good questions, but they assume facts not yet in evidence. Namely, that humans have any idea what intelligence is and can measure it accurately.

We like to think we know everything we need to about IQ. We study it, measure it, assign numbers and everything. And yet having a measurably extraordinary ID does not matter one whit for educational or employment purposes. It seems legit to question that we can define intelligence when we spend our time minimizing the marketable potential of intelligence. (Unless maximizing potential of intelligence isn't the end goal of the tests, which is entirely within the realm of possibilities. I prefer to assume people are thickheaded more than evil sots. No Pollyanna. There's evil sots, right enough - they're just hopelessly outnumbered by thickos wielding best intentions, that's all. )

Human intelligence does not track a linear scale. Linear models are just easier on the examiners, I suspect. The many layers, levels, and nuances of human intelligence...

I mean, like, real quick and dropping the professor-speak. We all respect the commentators here who don't always spell things right, or use the five-dollar words. And we're right to do so, because those guys can wipe the floor with us in at least two areas, and we damned well know it. We may now yet know which areas, or how much more they know than we do, but we know. Oh, yes. And we respect. Because intelligence is more than having a vocabulary bigger than our laptop's and being able to correctly spell "obstreperous hierarchical wanknut" when someone is wrong on the internet.

I don't see a linear model. I see a computer.* There's a processor and RAM, and both are needed for the computer to be "smart". A weak processor with lots of RAM means we've got a decent storage unit, but it can't do much with it. A lightning-fast processor with piddly RAM is mostly just a toy.

Smart needs both a good processor, and enough RAM to give the processor something to work with. We don't test very well for either of those things. The IQ tests haven't deviated much since 1913, and they mostly test for memory. And they do so badly to boot. It's a classic "find out what is in the box to determine the size of the box" puzzle solution. After all, the brain isn't exactly a truck bed that can be measured to see if the couch will fit.

I suspect this is why reading is such a big indicator for high IQ results; better than gender, economic class, family social standing. Reading puts things in our data storage. It makes the box look a lot bigger. The more we read, and the better we remember what we read, the higher we will score on intelligence tests.

This is only testing RAM, though. We need to figure out how to test the processors. Plural on purpose - I think there's more than one type. People are good at different things. Some people are insanely good at some things. Almost no one is insanely good at everything. Biologically, economically, it works - division of labor and stuff.

The tests give me a high IQ result, and I am crap with technology. Geometry. Mechanics. Lots of things with an understanding of three-dimensional scientific-spatial progressions, in fact. I guess my brain doesn't work like that. Took me forever to get good at pool. Aaaand some things I can wipe the floor with people. I've got a processor that the IQ tests like, though. So, which one is smarter: my processor, or the processor that's good at pool and geometry and computer hardware?

Discovering the root cause of what's making that knocking noise in the car's engine and correcting the issue does not qualify as "intelligence". I'd like to know where we get off calling that "science". Of course it's intelligence. The ASFAB tests for that specific type of intelligence, although we hand-wavingly call that "aptitude" and forget that it's a dead useful aspect of engineering and a particular area of da Vinci's genius.

The current methods and mythology are stupid. I'd love to see more questioning of the underlying consensus science. And hey, if it starts with questioning why, if any of the crap they tell us about intelligence is true - that it matters, that schools want us to be intelligent, that school increases IQ, that it's genetic and yet fungible and also not a college requirement - then why do they act the way they do and get the results that they get?



*I'm going to get into trouble with this analogy at some point. I'm not the best with computers.
Thomasblair
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"tickerguy" wrote..
What percentage of people in the sub-group with a median of 95 are >= 120? That answer is probably going to make you mad.
About 5%.

This should make your point crystal clear:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1....

Play around with the yellow highlighted cells.
Magus
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The left loves Darwin & science, except when it comes to race (IQ) and sexes (strength, different wants/needs). Well, really science that "supports" what they believe is good and don't even bring it up if it shows the opposite.

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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."

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Tsherry
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I'm currently reading an online 'novel' that looks at the collapse and balkanization of the US, set from 2016 or so through 2068 or so. The primary cause is the progressive movement, pitting everyone against white males (and Christians). While I find some of the plot lines unrealistic, some of it almost unreadable, some other points I find all too uncomfortable, and real, and happening. Those points are almost universally the implementation of progressive group-think and the re-write of history, words, meanings, and social patterns.

As for the person that made the entry into the science fair, their life course is probably already seriously altered; their name on a list; their family background under thorough scrutiny.

How ****ed up is that?

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Omne mendacium est.
Thomasblair
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Click:

That is an interesting bit on PTC. From Wiki:

"Ability to taste PTC may be correlated with a dislike of plants in the Brassica genus, presumably due to chemical similarities. However, studies in Africa show a poor correlation between PTC tasting and dietary differences.[9]"

So that's why some people don't like brussels sprouts. Oh well, they're missing out.
Flappingeagle
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Good spreadsheet Thomas but you needed to go out to 3 standard deviations.

The average engineer/had sciences major at a decent college has about a 125 IQ. The people who excell are more likely around 145. In those fields and many others the boss has a 145. Compare a pop with a mean of 100 to a pop with a mean of 90 with a desired IQ of 145. It ain't pretty.

Heck, assume men have a standard deviation of 17 and women 14 and both have a mean of 100. Compare thier representation at 145.

Flap

----------
Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
No sign that housing, equities, or farmland are in a bubble- Yellen 11/14/13
Trying to leave the Rat Race to the rats...
Thomasblair
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Flap,

I left it generalized on purpose, showing the cells in yellow that didn't have formulas so anyone could download and Tinker. In the other sheet of the workbook I looked up the demographic data for that high school and plugged it in so one could see what you might expect.
Riverbarrow
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I am willing to bet the readers of this forum have a well above average IQ.....just sayn
Ktrosper
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The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle
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Click
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Demosthenes:

I also have issues concerning how IQ tests are formulated and proctored; notwithstanding my genuine believe that IQ tests prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the intellectual difference between races.

We can rightly argue about how accurate or relevant and/or what subjective value there is to be found in an IQ test; however, facts are facts. And the facts prove a measurable difference between gene pools (aka race). IQ is part and parcel to the whole difference between gene pools, but there are other significant differences which are not allowed to be explored in institutions of higher learning because they simply don't fit the narrative...

It has been said that beauty is not skin deep; I say, neither is race.

The larger and more important question is: how important is intelligence in the overall makeup of a human being? Is being an intellectual more important than being a loving and compassionate soul? Is there a measurement to determine whether or not one race is more charitable than another? And if one race is indeed more charitable than the others, why? And can modern science advance gene technology to the point of creating a better man?

There are many questions that need to be thoughtfully explored within institutions of higher learning. But those issues never will be explored because the truth hurts. What if we find out, for example, that the white race is indeed more intelligent, yet also much more cunning and selfish? Ouch!

Who wants to know that ****? Who wants to really examine and know the truth? Damn few, I'll tell you that.

It's much, much easier to believe in some politically correct fairy tale than it is to be totally honest with ourselves.

Personally, I want to know what are both the strength and weakness of the races. And I wouldn't mind letting science and technology advance to the point of creating a super race imbued with all of the best qualities and absent the worst.

But that ain't happening, because too many people are afraid of what Hitler did in his efforts to create a master race.

Hitler really, really ****ed us, because now the masses are afraid to unleash science in a quest to advance gene pools to extraordinary levels....

Anyway, enough of me writing this ****. We are probably driving Karl crazy reading this race **** when the focus will shortly be on global equity markets...

Goodnight!
Crossthread
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The UGLY TRUTH..
I'm NOT Racist......
Just the scientific facts..

IMOP, IQ & intelligence, are givin to US by Genetics..
Having, high "IQ" due to the environment over 10's of thousands of years, (either white/black/Asian) based on the Environment... Whites & Asian(s) had to LEARN/Adapt & survive the Ice Age(s).. Where-as, Negroids, living in the Sub/Tropics have plenty of FOOD, Game, fruits, they only had to HUNT, Pic their fruits, NOT farming or building Castles/Permanent homes/structures to fend off the Environment/Weather..(Or move to where food/fruit/hunting was better), And.. the Weather was warm.. ;)

Caucasian(s),On the other hand, Were learning to become a semi-Agrarian Society, bringing about the Bronze & Iron ages..(Or perish).
While those folks in the Tropics/Africa, until the 1700/1800's didn't build boats, construct buildings/Castles/ Smelt Ore, or even FARM anything until...smiley smiley

The White Man invaded.. Not invade, but Exploring expeditions..

LOW, IQ is strongly related, to disorganized Environments..(See MOST African Governments today for example, for Disorganized or corrupt or both). Equaling to IMPULSE CONTROL,, (sound familiar?).. OR Democrat run US cities, (see Detroit & ChiIraq)

Have you seen things or Videos here in America of the same? (World Star) for example.. Facts be damned..
I'll leave this quote by Dixon..


Quote:

Since the dawn of history the Negro has owned the continent of Africa rich beyond the dream of poets fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet and yet he never picked one up from the dust until a white man showed to him its glittering light.

His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled.

A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour.

In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud.

With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail.
...


I read several studies on IQ's & bell curves.. Most if not all are flawed.. Meaning.. It's Taboo to even study the subject.

It's prohibited Subject to Study or Publish.. Facts be Damned...
On the other hand.. Folks wonder ..

WHY does the American Negro do so well in B-Ball & football & Sports!??

Answer--> Genetics is the reason!

If you think about it, ONLY the Fittest & most Physically strong Blacks during the Slavery Days survived..

Those "GENES" were passed down to Our current Superstar Black Sports players..
Not with standing the... Laws of the Jungle...
Survival of the fittest and all that..

From AR..
Quote:

There is probably no greater intellectual crime than to point out that the average intelligence of blacks is significantly lower than that of other races. American society punishes those who publicly state this view almost as vigorously as Islamic republics punish anyone who defames the Prophet.
Indeed, in an increasingly secular America, the dogma of racial equality has become virtually a religion. Like early Christians under the Romans, or Russian dissidents under the Soviets, Americans who question the dogma keep their forbidden opinions to themselves or exchange them only in private.
Despite its strength, one of the most remarkable things about the racial dogma is how new it is. Until only a few decades ago, hardly anyone thought the races were equal. Kipling wrote of lesser breeds without the law, and the Encyclopedia Britannica noted matter-of-factly in its 1914 edition that The Negro is intellectually inferior to the Caucasian. Until only a generation or two ago, this was the view of virtually all Americans: Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, and Harry Truman, to cite only Presidents.

Link--> https://www.amren.com/news/2017/07/race-....

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Cognitive Co-Dependency is when a normal rational person, internalizes irrational illogical presentations, and somehow reconciles them to fit their scripted indoctrination of logical analysis.
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Thomasblair
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Flap,

Thanks for the criticism; your advice improves it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1....

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