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2018-02-05 09:30 by Karl Denninger
in Social Issues , 197 references Ignore this thread
Say It Isn't So!
[Comments enabled]

This is some sort of a surprise?

A report based on conviction data suggests that illegal immigrants in Arizona commit crimes at twice the rate of other residents.

No, really?

And....

“There appears to be a huge difference between the two groups,” he said. “The type of person who goes through the process to legally immigrate in the United States appears to be very law-abiding versus even the U.S.-born population."

Why would this surprise and more to the point, why hasn't this been reported before?

I have a friend who was naturalized.  People who go to that sort of trouble and expense -- and it is both difficult and expensive -- have every reason to be law-abiding citizens, even more-so than someone who is native-born.

Among other things if you do it "the right way" (rather than relying on some "amnestry") you must submit proof that you have paid all of your taxes -- which means all your 1040s with all supporting schedules and attachments.  You must show that you are not likely to become a "public charge" (e.g. not taking any form of public assistance.)

And you must have a clean criminal record.

Oh, then there's the time and money investment, neither of which is cheap or easy, never mind learning English and how our government actually works, with a requirement to actually pass a test on that at the end.

Illegal invaders do none of the above.  They cheat on their taxes by definition.  They steal public resources by definition.  They hide in the shadows by definition.  Their first act upon setting foot over the border is an illegal one, in fact, which sets forth exactly how much they "honor" our legal system and framework -- that is, not at all.

You have to be a special brand of stupid to not understand the difference between these two groups of people without having to have it explained to you.

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Ckaminski
Posts: 4461
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Mass-Hole!
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Cue the wait for the virtue signalling that they only do this because their illegal and our policies MAKE them do it.

Completely ignoring your point.
Acebarefoot
Posts: 135
Incept: 2009-05-20

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....or they will throw up a Straw Man argument to move the discussion away from the original point they cannot defend. Then throw some crap in there about "the children".... maybe even a quick mention of "homophobia".

Once the argument is derailed they can whip up all kinds of emotions and brand the other side a bunch of "MEANIES!!!"

Phdude
Posts: 138
Incept: 2009-05-26

NJ
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In addition to all of what Karl mentioned, in order to get a green card, you also have to show proof of immunization. If you are missing any from the list, you have to take the shots. I had to take a TB shot when I went through the green card process.

In other words, illegals don't get checked for any of that. Is it any wonder that long-forgotten diseases are now on the rise?
Attilahooper
Posts: 2787
Incept: 2007-08-28

New York, by way of Montreal Canada.
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Even the ones who arrive here on easy or inexpensive visas like TPS don't fully grasp the value of their status. Got a handyman/helper friend who's been here since the 80s from El Salvador, he has a very good work ethic and is trustworthy. However, he ****ed up a couple times, had an open container while driving and got into an altercation with his ex wife. I think his time is limited, but it's a shame because he didnt pop out anchor babies and just wants to be an american.

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Whossane
Posts: 3
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This is why pro amnesty pro, illegal immigration activists never differentiate between legal and illegal immigration. By combining the two sets of statistics they can state that "immigrants" don't commit any more crime than American citizens
Wearedoomed
Posts: 4264
Incept: 2009-01-14

slightly red state
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Here's a fresh example of these fine upstanding citizens humans bringing their culture and values to this country (three times now!):

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crim....

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A collectivist defines peace as the silence of their enemies, through fear, imprisonment or death. That's how they define peace. - Mike Vanderboegh
Tickerguy
Posts: 151591
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A True American Patriot!
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Yeah, isn't that special? Drunk as hell (roughly DOUBLE the limit, and I can assure you that at 0.15 you're ****ing HAMMERED), deported twice, and now our refusal to keep that ********** out of our country has resulted in people being dead.

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Winding it down.

Aztrader
Posts: 7930
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Scottsdale, AZ
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We watched border patrol literally bus these invaders into Phoenix and give them bus tickets throughout the country thanks to Obama and his criminal administration. No immunization, or vetting and just let loose to do whatever they wanted because Obama protected them by indicting our Sheriff to stop him from arresting them.
There are thousands of these third world invaders that are running loose and I know of a lady in our area that lost a child to one of these third world diseases and am betting she picked it up from one of these sick kids that crossed the border.
How many Americans are sick, or have died due to Obama's carelessness?
Attilahooper
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Yep, I know an older fella who's pop brought him to the US from Europe after the war. He was turned back from Ellis Island because he had a fever. Once he was cleared of TB they let him in.

My family had to pass a battery of checks and proof of immunization, as well as signing declaration that we'd not collect any form of subsidy, healthcare or unemployment, while awaiting the 5 years to go from greencard to naturalization. My dad started his biz when interest rates were in the teens, he risked his entire savings, and built a business which employed americans when everyone was telling him he's nuts.

90% of out of state vehicle where I live in NY are immigrants of one form or another, more than likely gaming the auto insurance premiums. Although I disagree with mandatory insurance from a libertarian standpoint, it bugs the **** out of me when I see some dude with out of state plates with ladders strapped to their roof, doing housework for someone. If I did that and had an accident I'd be sued off my ass, lose my house. These ****s dont have anything to lose, so they have less interest in doing it the right way, or abiding by law. And we enabled them.

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I've retired and bought Shecky's - Welcome, have fun, **** **** up, let's get this party started
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykZbxFub....

Lobo
Posts: 433
Incept: 2013-12-25

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Quote:
I have a friend who was naturalized. People who go to that sort of trouble and expense -- and it is both difficult and expensive -- have every reason to be law-abiding citizens, even more-so than someone who is native-born.


Yup. A friend of mine is doing the same thing. We were talking about illegal aliens, theft and diseases and he was pissed. He can't understand why we put up with this. And he's beginning to wonder if it is really worth the effort.

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Wa9jml
Posts: 84
Incept: 2017-04-29

DeKalb, Illinois
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I remember back before the massive immigrant onslaught, you could actually get a clean motel room where the furniture didn't smell like vomit, and you didn't have to worry about bedbugs.
Eleua
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I remember back before the massive immigrant onslaught, you could actually talk to a customer service rep that spoke English as her first language, and you didn't have to "Press 1 for English."

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"My object in life is to dethrone God and destroy capitalism." - Karl Marx
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Whitehat
Posts: 310
Incept: 2017-06-27

The People's Republic of New York
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just decided that a good friend is now in the category of a piece of meat on a hook that can be used for food.

found out that his Mexican worker is illegal and of course paid off the books. well, he wrote a letter for said Mex that he is employed by him for x amount of dollars which is of course less than he actually pays him in cash. the purpose of this letter, drum roll, is to show that he is meeting work requirements for the welfare that his two american born children and illegal wife get every year. they get foodstamps, rent assistance, medical. he even ****ed his wife, first pregnancy, while she was underage and the police and prosecutor swept it under since it was only two years under our age of consent and her family liked him. you can add statutory******to the other rules that do not apply to them.

he earns more than me even before the taxes that i pay and gets welfare on top. he has a newer car than me just for clarification of the problem.

why does this letter not automatically trigger reporting of the employer to the various agencies for lack of withholding, comp, etc.

i see how this parasite example works. yes, he is skilled and diligent. however, he is not working proportionally to the station in life, skill set and investment in learning. if legal, he would be sweating his balls off for minimum wage where the employer expects his hands to be moving constantly. food workers, who are legal and on the books in corporate establishments, earn lower wage before taxes and bust their asses to a much greater extent.

it is shame to lose a friend, especially such a good one, but his philosophy is that everyone is corrupt. i mentioned the bible quote on reaping what you sow. he has no idea that one day maybe even i will take advantage of him.

what was it that Orwell warned in his book, that no one dare trust a spouse or a friend anymore. soon there will be no friends and it will be one giant ****fest. and people like me might decide to take our gifts and abilities and decide to join the fun and cash out.

everyone likes to run to us good people when the chips are down. let them run into our hell.

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Jpg
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MI
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Another element to the legal immigrant/naturalized person issue is that a naturalized citizen can, on conviction of a significant crime, be de-naturalized and deported.

The literature was at one time full of examples of this happening to Italian immigrants who were members of the Mafia and convicted of crimes related to that membership.
Ckaminski
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Mass-Hole!
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Logically, I could only see that being fair for crimes that happened before naturalization/citizenship. Applying for citizenship under false pretenses.

Once a citizen, a citizen until you voluntarily renounce.

But hey, who says logic has any place in government or civil society. :-)
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