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2017-12-30 16:53 by Karl Denninger
in Technology , 385 references Ignore this thread
Apple, The BeeEss Company
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Done being a "fanboy" yet?  No?  You must like getting ripped off.

Hiding something you know is defective in a manner that will cause people to think their device should be replaced with a newer one, instead of either having it fixed under warranty or performing a relatively inexpensive repair, is outrageous.

Apple is being sued on this basis alleging consumer fraud, and IMHO rightly so.

Make no mistake -- Apple only came clean after being caught.  They didn't tell anyone up front, they didn't disclose the presence of the software change they made in anything like release notes that accompanied the new code, nothing.

They in fact said nothing despite people noting a problem until they were caught by irrefutable evidence that was presented to the public by a customer, and only then did they come clean as to what they did.

That is evidence of bad faith and intentional misconduct and I hope the plaintiffs shove it so far up Cook's and Apple's ass that they can taste it.

That was not a mistake.  It was in fact just the latest manifestation of what Apple as a company is -- an extractive firm that has managed to create a religious cult of fervent grape Kool-Aid drinkers among Americans who parade around like they've got some part of God in their pockets and thus are blessed.

The truth does not matter to any of those fanbois however, nearly all of whom will keep buying their crap despite now having hard evidence that they've been intentionally screwed.

Nor does it matter to Jeff "**********" Sessions or the FTC, both of whom should have come in and nailed the executives of Apple to the ****ing wall ten seconds after this deception was disclosed, for the company has without question profited to the tune of billions of dollars as a result of it.

No, instead of the government doing its job and kneecapping people who pull that sort of crap we have private litigation, which I hope bears fruit.

But heh, just like when your local hospital ass-rams you to within an inch of your physical life (and beyond your financial life) not one ******n finger is lifted by the criminal justice system in this country despite there being clear and in fact admitted evidence of intentional concealment.

For those who care (that seems to be basically nobody) there is a proper way to handle lithium chemistry batteries and their charging requirements. 

It's not very complicated either -- in fact, it's far simpler to charge these than NiMH cells, as those are quite-tricky to determine when they're actually full.  With lithium chemistry batteries it's easy:

1. If the voltage has been allowed to drop under 3.0v (the device should prevent this by turning off before that level is reached) then charge at 1/10c maximum (for a 3,000mah battery this means no more than 300mah) until the battery reaches 3.0v.  Display a warning to the user if this occurs that the cell may be permanently damaged in capacity due to abusive over-discharge.  This is extremely important because an over-discharged cell may be shorted and if you hit it with high current it may burst.  If the voltage does not rise to 3.0V in a reasonable amount of time (a half-hour or so) or if during this phase temperature rises to over 100F then call the battery dead (because it is) and refuse to charge it until manually informed that it has been changed.

2. Charge at up to 0.7c (you can go up to 1.0C if you've got good thermal monitoring) until the voltage on the cell reaches 4.2V.  For a fully discharged cell this will take about an hour.  The battery will be somewhere between 60-80% charged at this point depending on the rate at which you stuffed power in and how hot it is.  Do not permit continued charging over a cell temperature of 100F; if that temperature is reached stop the charge until the temperature falls back.  This should not happen unless the ambient temps are quite high.  If the CPU temperature is not elevated but the battery gets hot and this happens more than once sequentially display a warning to the user that the battery may be damaged and dangerous to continue to use (it may be partially shorted internally, to be specific.)  At the termination of this phase display a message to the user that rapid charging has ceased so if the user wishes to unplug they can do so; there is no harm in partially charging lithium batteries and in fact their life is extended by not going fully through the next (saturation) charge phase!

3. At 4.2V switch to constant-voltage charge at 4.2V and continue until the current drops to between 0.1 and 0.03C (for a 3,000mah battery, this means between 100 and 300ma.)  Split the difference if you'd like (e.g. 150ma.)  This will take about another 90 minutes to two hours.  If cell temperature goes over 100F, terminate the charge until it drops under.  Heating is normal during this part of the charge and thus if ambient temperatures are elevated it should be expected that the cell will get warm.  Again, unless the CPU temperature is elevated the cell should not go over 100F however (that is, unless ambient temps are high.)  When the cut-off current is reached the cell is full.

Further, the manufacturer should offer an option to the user to terminate the charge entirely at 80-85%.  Why?  Because doing so materially extends the number of cycles the battery will survive -- that is, how long it will last.

Why doesn't any cellphone manufacturer I'm aware of, including Apple, use this profile?

Because it takes three hours to charge the battery this way (that is, properly) and that assumes you have a charger with enough current delivery to run phase 2 at full potential.  If you don't then it may take four or more hours for a full charge.  It also requires on a technical level accurate instrumentation both at the charger circuit output (for voltage and current) and at the input to the voltage regulator for the phone's circuits (so the charging circuit can subtract back out the energy consumed by the phone if it's "on" when being charged and thus knows actual charge rate going into the battery.)

People are lazy and demand "right now", in short.

Charging beyond 4.2V without tapering the current does fairly severe damage to the cycle life (the number of times you can charge and discharge the battery before it loses enough capacity to******you off.)  Charging materially beyond 4.3V is dangerous and can cause gas pressure development in the cell, which causes it to bulge and can cause the cell to burst.  Continuing to charge beyond the point where the cell is "full" can plate lithium metal and cause internal shorts, which then lead to the potential for fires.

The answer to quickly-trashed batteries is for manufacturers to stop abusing them and for customers to demand that a proper charge profile be used for them, understanding that this means you cannot fully charge such a cell in an hour.

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Mekantor
Posts: 147
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I think one of my older phones or a laptop had an option to stop charging at 80%. It may have been a Samsung laptop
Tickerguy
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Lenovo does this with some models (my X220 being one of them); it stops at about 94%. You can tell it to override that but they recommend against it and state clearly that doing so will cost you in battery life.

I bought that unit in 2011, I believe, and it's on its second battery -- which is still providing excellent service.

Yeah.

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Shannonlk1
Posts: 190
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Raleigh
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I read some where that all modern phones don't over charge once they reach 100%. So leaving them plugged up until you need to carry it is ok. Is that true or another lie? Some apps are very energy dependent GPS for instance and some games. So will it hurt the battery if it's at 95%or 100% and then you plug it up to use the GPS so it doesn't drain your battery while on the trip?

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Aerius
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GTA
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Once again, there's no free lunch. The harder you work the battery the faster it dies. Shocking, who could've guessed?

I've had Lenovo laptops since the T60 days, I've always set the battery to stop charging at around 85-90% and have the laptop go into hibernation at 25-30%. Sure I lose some work time compared to running the battery into the ground, but I rarely need more than an hour of cordless run time anyway so it's not a big deal. I've only had to replace one battery in the lat 10 years and everything is still in good shape. Keyboard on my W520 is starting to look a bit worn though.
Tickerguy
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Quote:
I read some where that all modern phones don't over charge once they reach 100%. So leaving them plugged up until you need to carry it is ok. Is that true or another lie? Some apps are very energy dependent GPS for instance and some games. So will it hurt the battery if it's at 95%or 100% and then you plug it up to use the GPS so it doesn't drain your battery while on the trip?

Well yes they won't overcharge (otherwise the battery would short and catch on fire!) but essentially all modern phones drive the charge cycle WAY beyond best practice.

Whether this turns into a problem for you depends on how badly you drain the battery. If you get through a full day without having to charge you probably won't get into trouble for two years or so.

But if you need to reload mid-day, well.... a cycle is a cycle, and if you get 500 of them and use 2 a day, you do the math.

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Whitehat
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The People's Republic of New York
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Karl, with the Lenovo units is this control at the level of the factory power management software (ThinkVantage) or at the hardware level. My Lenovo laptops would control charge level at the factory software power management level through the ThinkVantage power manager. The factory image defaults to start charging at 96% and stop at 100%. Personally, I select the option which allows my custom settings of 80% start and 94% stop. Three that I use in the ThinkPad line have it this way. Since you dual boot a Linux distro are you using the BIOS to set charging thresholds? I always wondered if Lenovo's 100% was actually a little less to protect the battery. Thanks.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
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Tickerguy
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I dual-boot Windows and FreeBSD on my X220. I haven't paid a lot of attention to the charging paradigm under FreeBSD since it's usually on batteries when I'm using that.

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Dennisglover
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I've had my iPhone 6s since February, 2016, and the battery has been below 50% exactly one time. I charge it every night. Right now I connected it to charge after 10 hours off charge and it shows 88%.

On the other hand, I don't use it for anything but phone calls and text messages. Once in a very great while I use Firefox to check company email through Office365, but that's about all of it. (BTW, I care very little for any "cloud" service offered through SharePoint.)

The problem I've always had with Apple is the "push updates", which, umm, "just happen", as signaled by the fact that the next day I have to enter the 15-character password instead of using the fingerprint reader. A while back, when I was managing Oracle Solaris 10 servers, there were no "push updates", because I wanted to read and understand the release notes, warnings, notifications, etc., before I possibly bricked a few hundred large worth of systems to keep me from working late a few hours four times a year.

Oracle Linux 6 and 7 really, really like the "push update". Those servers took the entire Command Information Management System, Knowledge Management System Services, and everything else from the five year old Sun-branded M3000 servers on August 1, 2017.

I'm very happy to have nothing to do with that mess any longer.

(8-10 minutes later update--the iPhone 6s is at 91% charge. Whatever that means.)

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TANSTAAFL
Tickerguy
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The problem is that one of the most-common failure modes on Lithium cells is that they go high-resistance under load. So you'll show "50%" (which is really just a VOLTAGE measurement that is allegedly proportional to the charge level -- and is, if the battery is in good condition), turn on the GPS, and wham -- the phone shuts off as the battery cannot provide the extra 250ma required to drive the GPS. The voltage sags, gets down to the 3.0v cut-off, and the controller in the phone kills the power (to prevent deep-discharging from destroying the battery.) Apple lied about THAT too -- they claim it's to protect the "sensitive circuits" in the phone. Horse****. The shutdown is to prevent the battery from being deep-discharged, which can cause it to SHORT internally -- and then CATCH ON FIRE when recharged at high rate because that nice short means instead of charging it just makes heat, and LOTS of it!

The proper thing to do if that happens, of course, is to tell the user that the battery is defective and requires replacement. What APPLE did was to instead throttle the CPU to try to cover up the fact that the cell was defective. This won't work for very long (maybe another couple of months) because the battery will not magically get "better".

The other fact is that the charge controller, if its paying attention, can detect this condition and alert the user before they start getting in trouble with unsolicited shutdowns because the rate of charge (milliamps drawn at a given voltage state of charge) starts declining -- by quite a bit. Resistance is two-way, you see. If a cell in good condition can sink 3,000mah when it's at a 30% charge state and it now only sinks 2,000mah or 1,500mah, well.....

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Dennisglover
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No argument there at all, Gen. It's not that "I like Apple" so much as I kind of know how to drive the thing.

I've had a couple of BBs, and they worked just fine, I think. Also had a couple of LG Android phones, both of which I detested. One I destroyed (with extreme prejudice, by the way), and the other I use occasionally as an ebook reader.

Fifteen years ago I had a Motorola flip-phone. It made and took calls. Then an LG something or other flip-phone, which also took and made calls. That's what I want.

However, what Apple has done here, in terms of driving "their market" is fundamentally both wrong and criminal, and there's no argument on that point. I've probably got another 1-2 years with the iPhone, during which time I'll watch (here and other places) for a better product. Or I'll just become incommunicado. I doubt that many people want to talk with me anyway, you know.

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TANSTAAFL
Dennisglover
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And, yes, back in elementary school I connected a 90V battery (happily supplied by a phone company employeed cousin) through wires to the spine of a spiral notebook; positive and negative don't mean much when the conduit is merely resistive in some tiny sense. The heat was impressive and not to be fooled with, on account of melted metal in 1959 (or any other year) was not to be screwed around with. Okay, I did it on the driveway and still burned the deuce out of myself.

Also scorched some paper, but I still used it to do homework. My 3d grade teacher accepted the homework, so that's another plus.

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TANSTAAFL
Killben
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IMHO, just as in any crime, knowing about the crime and not reporting the same should also be treated as a crime. Thus all the employees in the know about this should also be booked and made cuplable. After all, Cook not being Hitler, these employees cannot take refuge that it is the threat of being exterminated that they did not come out on this. This would also prove to a lesson to other employees who know the wrong doings of a company and do not come out.

But given that the law is now wilfully ignored by all in power this will not happen. The whole system has become rotted further since 2009 because lawlessness has been the way of life (gun to FASB head in Mar 2009, no one going to jail for 2008/9, Ben Bernanke being paraded around as a hero after having slept at the wheel and having been derelict in his duties during the crisis etc.). I do not understand how this is going to change unless people say enough is enough.

This is what happens when people who have to be punished get away scot-free or with a slap in the wrist. Morally bankrupt sums it up. It is also happening because people are okay with it and are not willing to do anything about it. And it is not the US. It is all pervading across the world.
Rollformer
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So, if I were an enterprising cell phone manufacturer who could not compete on "Shiny" with Apple and Samsung, why shouldn't I put in a 3,750 battery when I need only 3,000. Charge it only to 80%. This not only would increase the number of cycles (it appears to be substantial, too), I could allow all of the capacity to be used towards the end of the battery's life, further extending it. (I can't find actual math on this, but I imagine the decay is not linear, which would make the second part of my idea not as good as it initially sounds).

It would eat into the margin, but I would imagine there is a market for such a thing, even if that market were only Karl and some cantankerous folks on slashdot.
Tickerguy
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It would not eat into anything to provide user-selectable charge profiles, and a somewhat-larger cell wouldn't either. What the latter DOES do, however, is prevent the "paper-thin" phone profiles that apparently are all the rage these days.

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Rollformer
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Ah yes. The phenomenon where we take a piece of hardware that is admittedly beautiful (look at the Galaxy S8), and put it into a giant plastic case.
Tickerguy
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Quote:
Ah yes. The phenomenon where we take a piece of hardware that is admittedly beautiful (look at the Galaxy S8), and put it into a giant plastic case.

.... because the idiot designers paid zero attention to reality, specifically that there is a CAMERA LENS COVER on the back that is able to be damaged by ordinary events if it's the HIGHEST POINT ON THE BACK, and if it IS damaged that "beautiful" hardware becomes quite a bit less valuable.

The same is true for said "beautiful" screens that have ZERO relief from the edge of the device and thus virtually ANY drop impact will shatter them -- when even a VERY small inset would prevent that EXCEPT for a very small range of angles of impact.

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Aztrader
Posts: 7913
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Scottsdale, AZ
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All those stock buybacks rewards who?..........................

http://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-....

Whitehat
Posts: 261
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The People's Republic of New York
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with lead acid batteries this is also a factor. they are ruined if they are allowed to deep discharge too far and repeatedly discharging them past a certain threshold shortens both their life span and load capacity. the way to test them properly is to charge to the rated storage voltage and then load test them. it seems that the only difference between them and the LI units is that they benefit from full and even a bit of overcharging.

have never owned Apple crap, but get to experience it with others who do. same carrier, T-mobile, and the sound quality speaking to someone using one of these is horrible. got a real lesson the other day when someone handed me his to speak to someone, terrible **** speaker and quality. my Samsung s5 sounds really nice in comparison. the best was my old Ericson t28 on the same network. my Apple friends also marvel at how nice the screen is on my s5 as compared to Apple. talk about a scam, crApple really has them by the balls and here is one reason why.

females generally, there are exceptions, like things to be easier with tech and do not have much competency in this area. i see the following all over my community. mom or grandma has an iPhone and she gets this friends and family plan that gets hubby, the children (adult and younger), even grandchildren free or discounted iPhones and often (where this all began pre-smartphone) unlimited talk, text and other **** with this friends and family group plan. add in that there is all sorts of cult specific apps and other BS photo sharing **** that they want to use in common among the family and you see how it goes. Moms are placing these things in the hands of their children and the adult children love it too as they can constantly do the grandparent thing once they have children. this family networking also drives Facebook, big time.

Marketing to women drives youth tastes. What was it? "First you get the women, then you have the children and the men will follow."

If i ever enter serious dating again other than FB's, the requirement will be no i**** or social networking. Funny how the girls that I raised are not into this **** even now. There are much more important things in life such as helping your daughter with her homework and teaching her that if there is a g-d, his name is not Steve Jobs.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
snow, seasons, distance and dirt roads: SSDD
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" (Gal. 6:7)
Tickerguy
Posts: 151190
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Quote:
have never owned Apple crap, but get to experience it with others who do. same carrier, T-mobile, and the sound quality speaking to someone using one of these is horrible.

Yep. I have friends with iFrauds and they sound HORRIBLE on them -- and it's even worse if they get an HD Voice (VoLTE or WiFi calling) connection.

Obviously the vanity factor does not extend to how someone SOUNDS on said phone, or they'd never sell a single unit.

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Dcsleeper
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Northern VA
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BeDazzle'd
CrApple
Fire
I only carry an i6s because work gave it to me, and my friggin Blackberry Passport doesn't work here in East BF.

Every day I get more reasons to hate companies and people.
Luckily I am mellowing with age and will soon not give a **** about anything.
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