Oh Bull****
The Market Ticker - Commentary on The Capital Markets
2017-11-14 13:54 by Karl Denninger
in Personal Health , 453 references Ignore this thread
Oh Bull****
[Comments enabled]  

Here we go again...

Americans with blood pressure of 130/80 or higher should be treated, down from the previous trigger of 140/90, according to new guidelines announced on Monday by the American Heart Association and the American College of Cardiology.

Note that this is an or.

This of course means that the doctor cabal gets to brand medical charts (yes, exactly like a car title) on a whim.

Let me explain.

There are myriad things that influence blood pressure.  It typically varies by anywhere from 10 to 20 points in most people over relatively short periods of time.  A cup of coffee will frequently raise it by 10pts -- for a couple hours.

This is not dangerous, but it is sufficient to put you over the "80" threshold and get your chart branded!

140/90 was sufficiently clear of this that transient causes were unlikely to result in you being tagged if you weren't really in trouble.  130/80 where it's an "or", not an and, is not and will result in millions of people being prescribed drugs that are dangerous -- without cause.

Potentially deadly high blood pressure can be brought under control with a wide array of medications, many sold as relatively inexpensive generics. The drug classes include angiotensin receptor blockers, such as Novartis AG’s Diovan, calcium channel blockers, like Pfizer Incs’s Norvasc, ACE inhibitors, including Pfizer’s Altace, and diuretics, such as Merck & Co Inc’s Hyzaar.

All drugs have side effects.  There are quite serious side effects associated with most of these.  That's not to say they don't have a use and proper purpose in the medicine cabinet -- they do.

But prescribing them to people who have quite-possibly transient elevations in blood pressure that are not dangerous in any meaningful way is an outrage.  As noted most of these are available cheaply, but even the "cheap" generics have a cost and the side effects are real.

What are some of those problems?  Fainting (gee, that would be a nice way to whack your head, right?) and kidney issues.  Kidney problems are especially nasty in that they can lead to renal failure which means you get to live on dialysis at ruinous cost -- and then almost-inevitably die miserably.

I also question this claim:

Adults with blood pressure of 130/80 “already have double the risk of heart attack compared to someone in the normal range,” said Dr. Paul Whelton, professor at Tulane University School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine and School of Medicine in New Orleans and lead author of the new guidelines. 

Prove it.  I've looked for the alleged evidence and thus far haven't found it.

If you've got it, let's see it.

Let me be more-specific on what I expect you can prove.

High blood pressure tends to be associated with obesity, inactivity, smoking and excessive alcohol use (for starters.)  All four of those are known causes of heart attacks and strokes.  To make the argument that 10 points in systolic blood pressure (e.g. 130/80 .vs. 120/80) results in a doubling of heart attack risk you must show that the blood pressure difference, and only the blood pressure difference, results in the increase in risk.

In other words you need as your "control" group people who are exactly as fat (or not), exactly as inactive (or not), who do the same amount of smoking (or not) and who consume the same amount of alcohol (or not.)

Otherwise what you're seeing is the symptom of the cause rather than the cause itself, and thus if someone presents with a 130/80 blood pressure, is not obese, does not smoke, is not inactive and does not drink to excess you're going to both brand their chart and prescribe a dangerous drug to them that results in no meaningful change in their heart attack risk and thus increases their morbidity and mortality rather than decreasing it.

Let us not forget that doctors and their lobbies have done this before.  For more than 40 years they peddled the lie that saturated (animal) fat was the cause of heart attacks, strokes and obesity.  They did so despite the fact that the ramp in the first two began 20 years after the rate of smoking went up by more than a factor of ten on a per-capita basis along with intentionally ignoring evidence contrary to their claims (such as those eating a Mediterranean diet, the Inuit and other populations.)  In addition it was a known fact since animal husbandry has existed that one feeds animals high carbohydrate diets to intentionally fatten them; both cattle and pork are "finished" on same prior to being slaughtered.

The result of telling us to eat large amounts of carbohydrate and unsaturated machine-processed vegetable fats was more obesity and Type II diabetes, from which the medical system as a whole has profited mightily -- instead of their claim that we would experience less disease.  Not one person has been prosecuted or otherwise held to account for this intentional lie and the harm, both in human misery and death, directly caused by same.

Go to responses (registration required to post)
 
Main Navigation
MUST-READ Selection:
Our Nation DESERVES To Fail

Full-Text Search & Archives
Archive Access
Legal Disclaimer

The content on this site is provided without any warranty, express or implied. All opinions expressed on this site are those of the author and may contain errors or omissions.

NO MATERIAL HERE CONSTITUTES "INVESTMENT ADVICE" NOR IS IT A RECOMMENDATION TO BUY OR SELL ANY FINANCIAL INSTRUMENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO STOCKS, OPTIONS, BONDS OR FUTURES.

The author may have a position in any company or security mentioned herein. Actions you undertake as a consequence of any analysis, opinion or advertisement on this site are your sole responsibility.

Market charts, when present, used with permission of TD Ameritrade/ThinkOrSwim Inc. Neither TD Ameritrade or ThinkOrSwim have reviewed, approved or disapproved any content herein.

The Market Ticker content may be sent unmodified to lawmakers via print or electronic means or excerpted online for non-commercial purposes provided full attribution is given and the original article source is linked to. Please contact Karl Denninger for reprint permission in other media, to republish full articles, or for any commercial use (which includes any site where advertising is displayed.)

Submissions or tips on matters of economic or political interest may be sent "over the transom" to The Editor at any time. To be considered for publication your submission must include full and correct contact information and be related to an economic or political matter of the day. All submissions become the property of The Market Ticker.

 
Comments.......
User: Not logged on
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
Showing Page 1 of 3  First123Last
User Info Oh Bull**** in forum [Market-Ticker]
Ktrosper
Posts: 3306
Incept: 2010-04-06

ft collins co
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
anxiety over being in the Dr's office can drive it up a number of points..

I've tracked mine enough to know that sitting in the sun for 30 mins or so can bring mine DOWN almost 10 pts...

Yep, BS on this one KD.

----------
The unexamined life is not worth living.-Socrates
The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle
Liberty exists now in the spaces government has not yet chosen to occupy.-Doc Zero
I anticipate that 10 Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders will blow me this evening.-K.D
Krzelune
Posts: 5825
Incept: 2007-10-08

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I have decided I am now a Filipino women with normal blood pressure. All is well in my personal reality and everyone better respect my feelings or I'm gonna hire Allred and sue.
Bodhi
Posts: 150
Incept: 2008-02-23

Georgia
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I read this article in the NY times this morning and had the exact same reaction: bull****. I immediately thought of the way the medical system kept lowering the bar for overall blood cholesterol in order to "qualify" more people for statin prescriptions. Just another ploy to squeeze more money from "patients."

As I recall, many people's BP rises just from the anxiety of going to the doctor's office. This recommendation is nothing short of criminal.
Aztrader
Posts: 7878
Incept: 2007-09-10

Scottsdale, AZ
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
When business is down, they simply change the facts to suit them....
Flappingeagle
Posts: 2703
Incept: 2011-04-14

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
Let us not forget that doctors and their lobbies have done this before. For more than 40 years they peddled the lie that saturated (animal) fat was the cause of heart attacks, strokes and obesity. They did so despite the fact that the ramp in the first two began 20 years after the rate of smoking went up by more than a factor of ten on a per-capita basis along with intentionally ignoring evidence contrary to their claims (such as those eating a Mediterranean diet, the Inuit and other populations.) The result of telling us to eat large amounts of carbohydrate and unsaturated machine-processed vegetable fats was more obesity and Type II diabetes, from which they have profited mightily -- instead of their claim that we would experience less disease. Not one person has been prosecuted or otherwise held to account for this intentional lie and the harm, both in human misery and death, directly caused by same.


I've been thinking about Keto/Paleo diet for weight loss. Can I adequately introduce and explain it starting with these three points?

1. Eat the right foods
2. Intermittent Fasting
3. There are no cheat days

Obviously some points take much more explanation and have more details than others. Point one would take a lot of explaining if you get down deep into the details of cooking, recipes,... Point two is not nearly as long and point three almost explains itself.

Flap

----------
Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
No sign that housing, equities, or farmland are in a bubble- Yellen 11/14/13
Trying to leave the Rat Race to the rats...
Runsalot
Posts: 15
Incept: 2016-04-26

BALTIMORE
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Karl: You nailed this one. The medical profession is a business that it is best to avoid if you can. As a business, they want to make increasing numbers of people "sick" and in need of their services. This is just another example. Some docs would have me on a statin and BP meds.
But beware. The meds are strong and many times the cure is worst than the disease.
Prevention of disease is a real failure of medicine today. When you get good and sick they can be helpful.
Blow_off_top
Posts: 46
Incept: 2010-11-10

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
These a******* are realizing that they are LOSING their advantage on the FAT LIES, and now they are calling an audible and changing the offense.
Oldno7
Posts: 2635
Incept: 2008-11-14

RECALL STATE USA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
My wife saw this on GMA this morning and she even called bull **** and knew it was just another way to sell more drugs to the masses. She is starting to learn quickly.

----------
IT'S THE SPENDING STUPID The US must become less a government of men, and more a government of LAW.When people lose everything and have nothing left to lose they lose it -Gerald Celente
Ginnie
Posts: 33
Incept: 2017-04-03

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
My great-grandmother lived to 91, didn't know her blood pressure or cholesterol and never went to the doctor. My grandmother smoked from the age of 14 and lived in decent health until she died at 87. My other grandmother died at 61 from cancer, was a perfect weight and ate the healthiest of anybody I ever knew. The doctors can shove their new guidelines.
Don24mac
Posts: 129
Incept: 2007-11-26

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
It sure doesn't help when the Dr.s Assistant comes in prior to the Doctor and takes your BP with a cheap Omron Bp710n 3 Series Home BP monitor. It further doesn't help when she asks me to sit with my feet dangling off the exam table, my arm hanging down, and putting the cuff way up my arm to the shoulder over my flannel shirt and overshirt.

This showed me with the highest BP I've ever had. I had to argue with her to move the cuff down, and take it again under my shirt and let me sit in the chair with feet on the floor, yet the reading was still off--probably because I was arguing with this person who had no business doing anything medical.

I took it up with the doctor and he seemed very unconcerned, even though this was now recorded in my records. Time to get another doctor.

When I take my BP at home I use an old mercury sphygmomanometer and stethoscope that I got from my Dad's home when he died. He was a Doctor in the 60s and 70s.

----------
"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams
Unknownsailor
Posts: 424
Incept: 2009-04-06

Bremerton, WA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
In the interests of time, the military all uses those computerized BP machines that take BP/pulse/temperature on their own. Every single machine I ever saw had a cuff that was too small for my 19" arms, so I got some variation of 135 over 100 every time. Yet if the doc did it manually with a cuff that fit and a stethoscope, it came out lower than normal.
Tinman
Posts: 287
Incept: 2008-02-16

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Approach medical professionals as you would an untested auto mechanic. They are the same sans pay range.
Tickergroupie
Posts: 630
Incept: 2010-03-24

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
It also doesn't help to be sitting on that exam table in nothing but a paper gown. Are they serious?!

Stay out of the system if at all possible.
Quik49
Posts: 4216
Incept: 2007-12-11

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
the drug commercials are hilarious, if not insulting....take this **** to fix that ****, but watch out for this **** that will maim, blind, stroke, depress, stress or kill you....for those symptoms, take this **** to fix that, but watch out.....lather rinse repeat....

----------
Long Vaseline....

Supertruckertom
Posts: 1548
Incept: 2010-11-07

USA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Back to the HFLC again.
My A1c hit 6.7

The nurse sounded panicked when she told me to come back in as soon as possible.
Cholesterol was 570.

My blood sugar was a 120 about an hour after eating.

BP was 116/80 but I am on Valsartin.
BP was 145/90 off of it and too high for my CDL Physical.

Got to get back down to 220 ish

60 pounds to go.
When I was a city driver and doing more physical labor I was between 220-230.
4 years on the road blew me up.
2-5 pounds a month sneaks up on you.

No way I take a Statin and I need to get off of the BP meds.
Walking 2 miles is no problem and I have started doing that while here in Tampa waiting.
6 laps around the parking lot is 2 miles.
I start to sweat about the third lap.
Need to pick up the pace.


----------
Preparing to go Hunting.
Spence
Posts: 3231
Incept: 2009-09-11

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Saw this link on Drudge today:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/....

Quote:
Almost half of over-65s in England are taking at least five different drugs a day, a Cambridge University study has found.

The figure has risen from just 12 per cent 20 years ago, while the proportion taking no pills at all dropped from around 20 per cent in the late 1990s to just seven per cent today.

Researchers tracked more than 15,000 older people who took part in two long-term health studies which began in the 1990s.

Some of those who took part in the long-term investigation said they were on up to 23 tablets every day.

Researchers expressed concern at the increasing dependence on prescription and over-the-counter medicines - known as 'polypharmacy'.

Studies show polypharmacy can increase the dangers of interactions between different drugs and the risk of frailty in older patients.
Bodhi
Posts: 150
Incept: 2008-02-23

Georgia
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I very rarely see a doctor. I order my own yearly blood tests through Life Extension, then adjust my lifestyle if anything has negatively changed. The docs would have tried to put me on statins, BP meds, insulin, etc if some of my past blood tests were in their system. Not going to happen.

Just this week I had a bout with pleurisy which is not life threatening, but can be quite painful. I had some hydrocodone left from my last bout with pleurisy and I took one pill before bed 2 nights ago. Yesterday morning I woke up with what felt like a hangover, headache included, and I rarely get headaches. Never taking that **** again. I'll just take aspirin next time.

On a related note the Pharmas are starting to put trackers in their drugs so the docs can make sure you're taking your medicine. This could have implications for denying insurance claims for non-compliance.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/healt....
Whitehat
Posts: 182
Incept: 2017-06-27

New York City
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
yesterday i stumbled upon the NYC channel in our local pay-TV provider's guide. this is an actual channel that New York City pays to have in the line up. they usually run programs showing local color stories and cultural and historical events. sometimes it is very good. here is the kicker. they devoted one hour to a complete show on ketogenic eating. the hosts, chefs, doctors, etc. could have been reading a script based upon Karl and others in the fold commentaries.

there has also been a hint, even in the NY Times, of a necessity to convert to a Med diet and perhaps carbs are problematic. seems like the tide is turning and they are slowly trying to unwind a problematic situation, much like global warming in morphing into climate change and then dangerous weather events. should be fun to watch.

----------
There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
Supertruckertom
Posts: 1548
Incept: 2010-11-07

USA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Getting through the shakes now.
4 days no carbs.

Wendy's Mediterranean Salad is pretty good and the Half size fills me up.

I lost over 40 pounds for my daughter's wedding by selective eating on the road.

Will do it again.


----------
Preparing to go Hunting.
Aracoma
Posts: 32
Incept: 2015-02-17

Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Supertruckertom - Sounds like you have the keto flu. Are you getting in enough electrolytes? This is from a keto group I read and it seems to help....
Inline
Click
Posts: 50
Incept: 2017-06-26

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Good points and good advice.

Moreover, a high protein/fat diet/lifestyle may not suit everybody; but a fact that almost everyone agrees ( including many doctors) is too much processed foods, sugar or many of the substitutes, sodas, cookies and so on and so forth puts an individual on track for major health problems...

There's been a lot of good work done over the years by guys like jack Lalanne ... Jack even tried drinking fresh blood right out of the slaughter house every day as part of his research on diet and exercise.

What I've found over the years is people are different and therefore diet and exercise should be custom made to suit factors such as sex, genes and age...

Jack has always been my role model. And whatever I have done to improve health was/is based on his work and the work of Jethro Kloss and a few other guys, too. There are other great role models, of course, but none base their work on treating the symptoms of poor health. They always look to an ounce of prevention instead of a pound of cure...

Tickerguy
Posts: 150644
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
Moreover, a high protein/fat diet/lifestyle may not suit everybody; but a fact that almost everyone agrees ( including many doctors) is too much processed foods, sugar or many of the substitutes, sodas, cookies and so on and so forth puts an individual on track for major health problems...

Here we go again.

HIGH PROTEIN is NOT at issue.

Frankly, those who repeatedly have something put in front of them, discussed, debated and explained and KEEP COMING BACK TO THAT WHICH HAS BEEN EXPLICITLY STATED IS NOT THE CASE are either (1) too braindead to have posting privileges here or (2) are trying to run a SCAM and ought to go into a wood chipper FEET FIRST.

You may wish to reconsider your comments and amend to demonstrate you're not in one of those two categories.

----------
Winding it down.
Vernonb
Posts: 1927
Incept: 2009-06-03

East of Sheol
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
new ways to exploit consumers....

I wonder where the health/life insurance people And pharma companies are hiding in the background rubbing their palms in greedy glee.

Gotten to the point of going to doc sounds like a visit to the service department of a shyster used car dealership.

Let's not forget about gout, induced arthritis, and high blood sugar some of these meds can cause. The latter will run up your A1C levels. Now you have another issue to treat.


----------
"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Jofg
Posts: 81
Incept: 2008-10-14

Minnesota
Banned
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
As I heard this reported on TV news and read the article in the paper, both tried to say that this change would not lead to greatly increased prescriptions/drug use, but instead a chance for Doctors to talk to patients about life style changes to lower BP. Yeah, right. They don't talk about lifestyle changes for anything else (certainly not beyond lip-service) but are always very quick to pull out the prescription pad. This change WILL be treated the same way - more drugs.
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
Showing Page 1 of 3  First123Last