So, 70% Of Farms Are Committing Crimes
The Market Ticker - Commentary on The Capital Markets
2017-11-13 13:31 by Karl Denninger
in Corruption , 421 references Ignore this thread
So, 70% Of Farms Are Committing Crimes
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Why shouldn't people commit robbery, identity theft, even murder?

Go on, tell me why.  It's wrong, right?  It's also illegal, but the bottom line is that we're a "law-abiding nation", right?

Wrong.

Trump’s crackdown on illegal immigration through stepped-up arrests and border enforcement has shaken the U.S. agricultural sector, where as many as 7 in 10 farm workers are undocumented, according to the American Farm Bureau Federation.

The largest trade group in the United States for farmers admits that 70% of the employees in the sector are illegal invaders and have no right to be in the United States.

This in turn means that one of two things is true for each and every one of them:

  • Their employer is paying no employment taxes because there is no Social Security number being reported at all, and thus you're being directly screwed, as are the employees.  You are being screwed because these people consume government services (whether "soft" or otherwise, that is, the simple enjoyment of things like a water and sewer system, roads, etc) but they pay no taxes to support same, so you are paying for the government systems that support their presence.  Further, if hurt "on the job" you pay for it since they have neither money or workman's comp insurance since they're not being reported as "employed."

    OR

  • They are using someone else's identity (e.g. SSN) and as a result the person who's identity was stolen is directly harmed both by the potential impact to their credit and if there is some sort of problem (e.g. they get hurt, etc) that winds up associated with the other person's identity which they are then forced to sort out at their own expense.

Every one of these "businesses" (farms) is a scam outfit and is breaking the law.

Every single one, and some of them are big, publicly-traded firms too (e.g. Tyson.)

The law is being flouted openly, intentionally and with malice aforethought.  Nobody is going to jail and nobody is showing up at those farms and processing houses, arresting both the employee and employer who knowingly and intentionally hired an illegal invader.

And that's just for starters.

Stop trying to argue that I should work hard, pay my taxes and "support society" through my actions while literally the entire food supply chain in the United States, say much less the fuel supply chain is comprised of both employers and employees who stick their middle finger up in the air every single day toward the law and screw all American citizens by doing so.

**** you Mr. President, Mr. Attorney General and the entire rest of the federal "law enforcement" community.  Oh, and **** you to Tyson's CEO, who is on CNBC right now.  May an asteroid land on all of your heads.  You have a major trade group here in the United States which announces that 70% of the employees in the field are illegally here and both they and their employers are intentionally breaking the law and you do exactly NOTHING about it -- except screw American citizens.

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User Info So, 70% Of Farms Are Committing Crimes in forum [Market-Ticker]
Eleua
Posts: 15135
Incept: 2007-07-05
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But wait, but wait, but wait....

If you get rid of the migrant labor (illegals), we will all be paying $7 for a pint of strawberries!!!

(so goes the typical argument)


I'd gladly pay $7 for strawberries if I could save the money for:

uninsured motorist
new public schools
ESL programs
jail space
court costs
Press one for English
empuje numero dos por espanol
Democrat party taxes
Democrat party social programs
identity fraud
credit card fraud
urban blight
dumbed down schools
litter
rape
affirmative action
welfare
public disability costs (farmers putting their costs onto the taxpayer)

People say that houses would be more expensive, if not for illegals framing and roofing homes. Horse****. The reasons homes are expensive is because pre-1970 US citizens are fleeing their traditional residential areas and trying to cram into a smaller and smaller slice of "decent" neighborhoods to get away from the wonderful rainbow mosaic that is invading our country.

I'd pay an extra $5k to frame the house if I could save $100K on land-location costs.

They tell us that we wouldn't have an information technology sector, if not for the H1B migrants from India. They make it affordable.

Nope. Wrong again.

The amount of money those companies make is dwarfs the payroll. They only want the cheap labor and the way to make indentured servitude the way things run. It's a modern plantation scheme.

The cost? Santa Clara county (Silicon Valley) was all-White when my wife grew up there (she is 51). Today? It looks like a Southern Asia open market and bizaar. Additionally, if we go to war with an Asian nation, where are the spies in our tech field? Are these immigrants loyal to the US or their homelands? From the looks of California (45% of CA households don't speak English at home), they are loyal to the Old World. Certainly not all, but enough to create a catastrophic national security issue.

The fatal moment in our history was the 1964 election. That brought in the Congress that voted in the Hart-Celler Act in 1965.

We won't recover from it. We will be the Brazil of North America.

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"My object in life is to dethrone God and destroy capitalism." - Karl Marx
"Destroy the family, you destroy the country." - Lenin
"Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." - Stalin
Aztrader
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Scottsdale, AZ
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Remember that under Obamacare, the employer isn't liable for health benefits if they aren't American citizens.
Krzelune
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I used to live outside Lodi, CA. I think it is closer to 99% there. The farmers who hire these people then want to complain when their fruits and nuts are stolen and their equipment sheds and houses are burglarized. They would even have their 100 gallon containers of fertilizer/insecticide drained in the middle of the night routinely.
Weezie
Posts: 6852
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>> I used to live outside Lodi, CA. I think it is closer to 99% there. The >>farmers who hire these people then want to complain when their fruits and >>nuts are stolen and their equipment sheds and houses are burglarized. They >>would even have their 100 gallon containers of fertilizer/insecticide >>drained in the middle of the night routinely.

Play ****ty games, win ****ty prizes.

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Flaps10
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PNW
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Eleua,
The reason houses are so expensive is because of the look you see on the face of your "average american" when they find out a house doesn't have granite countertops, farm sink, exotic tile, fully wired, etc.

It would probably be considered child abuse to live in a 3BR, 1BA house at this point.

Regarding the topic of farm labor, I thought all this was common knowledge since at least the 80s. It has gone on with full consent of both parties in the government and the consumer.
Jecolson
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Indianapolis
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Sir,
Maybe 70% of farm helpers in some areas of the country but not 70% of farms as many are just family business like the ones here in the midwest. They do not have others working for them and they pay their taxes.
Tickerguy
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Nice try (Indianapolis, posting out of a place in NC eh? Gee, I need an upper-body workout this afternoon!)



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Winding it down.

Drifter
Posts: 144
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Pacific Northwest
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In WA state orchards, it is a mix of illegal and H2B visa labor.

I have been told, but haven't researched, that taxpayers fund the cost of getting Jamaican fruit pickers to Brewster, WA.

https://www.andnowuknow.com/shop-talk/ch....

The 'bezzle continues apace.
Eleua
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Flaps 10 wrote..
The reason houses are so expensive is because of the look you see on the face of your "average american" when they find out a house doesn't have granite countertops, farm sink, exotic tile, fully wired, etc.

It would probably be considered child abuse to live in a 3BR, 1BA house at this point.

Regarding the topic of farm labor, I thought all this was common knowledge since at least the 80s. It has gone on with full consent of both parties in the government and the consumer.




Not all expensive housing are starter McMansions. The big price is due to moving to a "nice" neighborhood, which largely means getting away from the "diversity," even if it is living in a 1100sf, 2bd, mid-century home.

Migrant labor has been used for a long time, however, it is much more in the open in the past 30 years.

My dad (born 1947) worked agriculture manual labor when he was putting himself through college. He spent most of his life as a lawyer, but worked jobs that we are told by the Bush Clan "Americans won't do." The big thing to do back in the 60s and 70s was to drive up and yell, "IMMIGRATION!!!!!" (as a warning against INS coming), and the Mexicans would scatter to all points of the compass, whereas the citizens would keep on picking.

****, if you did that today, you would probably get stabbed in your sleep, and the Mexicans would look at the INS agents, accuse them of racism, profiling, and then sue them for denial of civil rights under color of law. INS has their jobs complicated by the fact that it is no longer a matter of looking at someone and determining that white/black = legal, Mexican = illegal, and be 90% correct in the generalization.

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"My object in life is to dethrone God and destroy capitalism." - Karl Marx
"Destroy the family, you destroy the country." - Lenin
"Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." - Stalin
Kgmqt
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In my area there are a lot of smaller family farms that only hire locals, but they also are not on the books. The are cash only, temp help.

There are a number of bigger operations too. When jobs come up at these places for any type of supervisor/manager position the number one requirement is must speak Spanish. Sometimes Hmong.

This is part of the long standing strategy in the US to keep food cheap. If food is cheap, bellies are full, and the sheeple generally are willing to get bent over on most other issues. Now if the people start to starve then you get revolts. Most of the Arab spring uprisings were because of the cost of food increased dramatically.

Aquapura
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Both of my parents grew up on farms. When my grandparents were still alive I spent my summers on an active farm in the Midwest. The dairy cows and other livestock were gone but the fields still presented plenty of work. At harvest time grandpa would hire the neighbor kids, same ones I'd hang out with all summer. All the neighbor farm families were big...like 8 kids big. They raised their own labor and if still short sometimes they'd find a "hired hand" who usually was another white guy farmer sans land. This was the 1980's. My Family still owns some of the land and I get back there annually. Difference today is nobody has the huge family...and there is a very brown workforce of "hired hands." The farmers are complicit in this. Seen it with my own eyes.
Tsherry
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Spokane WA
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>>In WA state orchards, it is a mix of illegal and H2B visa labor.

I have been told, but haven't researched, that taxpayers fund the cost of getting Jamaican fruit pickers to Brewster, WA.

https://www.andnowuknow.com/shop-talk/ch....

The 'bezzle continues apace.
>>

OK. So that explains it.

I was in Brewster in September on a project, and there were 'furriners' that didn't fit into the local Mexican population. I only caught a snippet of conversation, and could've sworn that they were Jamaican or from somewhere in the Caribbean, but then talked myself out of that observation. ("Musta been hearing things")

One thing I noticed though, is that the Mexican restaurant workers were really surly when folks at that table wanted service.

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Flaps10
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I flew a plane from Washington to Minnesota on September 1 and went back to pick it up on October 1. In Minnesota it was quite obvious that homesteads from the way back machine are largely intact. 100-ish acres in a grid. A stand of trees that someone planted 100 years ago around the house now provide great shade and windbreak.

Some of the homesteads are cattle and some grow various crops. Some are a mix, but there are almost no large farms. I asked about it and was told (by people who said their family had one of these farms) that they are tightly held by families and when they do sell it's for at least $18k/acre. They're not shy about calling it a family asset and a fallback in tough times.

Contrast that with eastern WA where the family farms were all condensed LONG ago. The kids who inherited didn't want back breaking work that was also feast or famine (literally). Most farm houses you see are not occupied and if they are it is by a renter who has nothing to do with farm operations.
A small farm is more like 6,000 acres and owned by a corporation.

Bigsapper
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Big business for the IRS. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Say no more.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc....
Mangymutt
Posts: 457
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Vancouver WA
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TSherry - I have not been to Brewster in over a decade, can't say I miss it either.

I have spent a lot of my younger years working fruit orchards and other types of jobs and it has been my experience that Mexicans have a whole lot of dialects so I would guess you were not hearing Jamaican, but some form of Spanish that is only spoken in certain areas.

Karl, the IRS has "Individual Taxpayers Identification Number" ITIN so anybody here in the United States and working can claim taxes, it is not a SSN, but works basically the same way. So illegals no longer need to "borrow" someone else SSN.

And yes some of these same people can use that number to receive other benefits.

These people are stealing our jobs, our services and our children's future.

Whitehat
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New York City
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we can add to the list practically 100% of suburban landscapers and 3/4 of restaurants and catering halls for the past thirty years. you can add a good percentage of autobody repair shops and general contractors. from my direct observation, many a direct cash pay situations. the savings for the employer in terms of unemployment and workman's compensation insurance are real. many employers have one or a few "legit" employees to avoid scrutiny of the state audits for said insurance. whoever is hurt is considered on the policy.

the fallout effect is that in many cases the employer solicits cash payments for services to have it at the ready for payroll. this becomes a source of undeclared income, a double theft from the system.

in my community in NYC these are the standard business practices. this is not done out of desperation for the majority, but to maximize profit. when you look at the magnitude of each businesses level of fraud, the numbers over the years would astound. many would not have the lifestyles and assets that they have if they played by the rules. if there was ever a crackdown and auditing, they would be ruined by the fines, penalties and interest along with the amounts due to the agencies.

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Jack_crabb
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Whitehat wrote..
a double theft from the system.


Yeah, well perhaps a lot of these folks you describe as double thieves have the quaint belief that what is theirs is theirs and sharing 50%+ with the government is unconscionable and more than "their fair share".

My industry has gotten obscene with workers' comp, GL, etc. Much more so in the last 7 or 8 years than when I first got involved 30 years ago. Not only that, but states are trying to clawback monies that may or may not be owed to them.

There is no doubt problems with illegals, but not all of what you describe is caused by illegal immigrants. To be fair,.gov has caused more than its fair share of rebels.

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Molon Labe
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Whitehat
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@Jack_crabb:

I agree wholeheartedly with you that the gov does make cost of doing business obscene and unfair in many instances. as a former business owner, i experienced this first hand in a very left state and city. the choice was to be totally honest and fully compliant and i do live indoors and eat regularly, so it is possible. there is more of a philosophical angle.

firstly, it has been argued that theft to survive can be moral and in some cases legal. this is not the case with the vast majority of businesses breaking the law. this does negate some of the "noble cause" arguments.

this creates a system where the market is determined by a majority where their actual costs of doing business are determined by this "model." consequently, competitors are required to also break the law. some, my example, are able to do this at greater stresses. some are not. some exit the market and leave players that might pose other liabilities to the customer base that are more and more difficult to avoid. in my community it is virtually impossible to find a residential roofer who is not exposing the property owner to excessive liability due to compliance avoidance and illegal labor. in the commercial world it becomes necessary to import outside the community borders at great additional cost. an entire ecosystem grows based upon the metrics of noncompliance and it grows into many aspects of life. here is an example.

many of the businesses that avoid taxation and massively participate in the cash economy launder this money in many ways, a lot unsavory. one method is to purchase real assets to legitimize the cash. property owner A is behind on his debts and faces personal bankruptcy as all of his properties are upside down. business owner with hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash works out a deal. property owner A in concert with his broker and lawyer negotiates short sales of his properties and goes bankrupt. side deals are made where the only potential purchaser that the lender(s) see are from business owner with the cash. re brokers can control a transaction to a much greater extent than realized if they have the motivation. property owner A clears his deck and starts over with a large sum of cash "under-the-table." this has also been observed where ready cash drives up the cost of something desirable. there are tax implications also where capital gains taxes are avoided.

on a more pedestrian level, cash in the system leads to renters, usually illegal, paying their landlords in cash who then have undeclared income and even run their properties at a loss.

it is obvious that this all leads to your point regarding the possibility that this is rebellion against injustice in the only way possible. however, it has one major flaw in itself. when the system can be avoided, there is no incentive to change it while concurrently disenfranchising those who cannot or will not. there is a follow-on effect. the working slobs, often the W-2 crowd and many 1099'er and even some business owners transform their resentment to "**** it." at this point we get things such as the bank employees who create bad loans and approve them up the chain, people who lie about their research results, would screw over your children in a minute if it meant their jobs or advancement, would overlook hazardous conditions instead of taking a stand and losing their jobs, look the other way where there is injustice. The list goes on and on in a broken society.

for years it has been observed that people are constantly looking for a way to bend, break and screw the system and outright steal to play the game. subtlety the message has been given that honesty does not pay. think that there is a reason that young people started embracing academic dishonesty big time in the 1990's. do you dare trust a spouse? if you are an honest chump, people figure you for a fool at best and a potential exploit at worst. it is fun however being a smart chump and catching them in the act. it does grow tiring.

how many honest people washout of profession or select other things depriving the community of competency.

some of my Christian friends talk about a St. Augustine who debated the morality of following an unjust law. his writings are very erudite and would be a good addition to today's postmortem on society's moral code. He did discuss that the decision to not follow an unjust negates the chance of openly debating the law and changing it. i wonder if it merely leads to the sins of omission and sloth.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
Jack_crabb
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I cannot argue with your logic, Whitehat.

It is a sad and maddening position we honest folk that like to eat and live inside find ourselves in. The monkeys (of Starving the Monkeys fame) are in the process of cooking the golden geese.

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Molon Labe
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