Get Politics And Religious Bigotry Out of The Law
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2017-11-08 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Social Issues , 273 references Ignore this thread
Get Politics And Religious Bigotry Out of The Law
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We're supposed to be better than that, and maybe we finally are.....

For the first time, a majority of Republicans are in favor of legalizing marijuana, according to a Gallup poll out Wednesday.

Fifty-one percent of Republicans tell Gallup that, yes, marijuana should be legal, up from 42 percent last year.

That support has led to a whopping two-thirds of Americans (64 percent) supporting pot legalization, the highest ever recorded by Gallup. Gallup has data on the question since 1969.

Marijuana was made illegal in the United States on the back of a campaign financed and promoted by the Hearst paper empire, which was deeply concerned about the ability of hemp to displace wood pulp for paper production.  The Hearsts owned vast expanses of pulp wood forest along with newspapers and used the latter to protect the former by driving public opinion about marijuana -- thereby effectively outlawing hemp.

Then there was the raw xenophobic and intentional lies spun in movies like Reefer Madness, which made the claim that Mexicans like to smoke weed (possibly true) but after doing so inevitably became raving animals who would uncontrollably******white women.  It was therefore essential to prohibit marijuana, you see.

That is what actually happened folks.  It was an intentional lie then and still is today.

Laws are not supposed to be predicated on lies, and when they are and the lie is discovered the government has an obligation to scrap said law.  Yet for decades it has refused to do exactly that.

Today we have jackwads like Jeff Sessions who still want to run this sort of crap -- a morality-based play that essentially argues that a plant should be illegal to grow, possess and consume because he thinks its bad.  "Good people don't smoke pot", basically, is his argument, and while he's certainly entitled to his opinion enforcing that opinion by law is another matter entirely.

Leave the medicinal argument aside for a moment (which is quite strong as well, I remind you.)  After all I've been known to gargle with a shot of scotch when I have sore throat.  Whether that's "safe and effective" isn't really the point; what's on-point is that I have every right to put ethanol in my body should I so choose and the risks and benefits of doing so are mine.

In a land where we have an opiod epidemic (which, I remind you, is driven not by illegal drugs but by doctors pushing this crap on people who they know are at high risk of physical addiction) I can find no argument at all for maintaining marijuana, a drug that is not physically addictive, as an illegal substance when even some small percentage of those who might seek a pain script from a doctor would likely instead choose to toke up a joint.

Some 60,000 people a year die from opiod overdoses in this country today.  If even 5% of those people would have chosen to smoke a joint instead and thus never start down the road of opiod addiction we'd be +3,000 people a year and we'd have the tax revenue from the doobies they bought and consumed.

Of course the medical and pharmaceutical industries hate this idea; they make a hell of a lot of money killing those 60,000 people a year, never mind all the side effects and medical treatment required due to same.  Anything that reduces the ability to push poisons on the public under the name of "medicine" you can bet both doctors and pharma will oppose.

I often wonder why it is that given both the medical profession's and pharmaceutical companies unbroken record in this regard, along with the pile of dead bodies from opioid addiction they have created the people in this nation at-large have not yet risen up with gallows and bonfires, laying in orders for enough BBQ sauce to make the outcome palatable.

Smoking anything is a bad idea for obvious reasons but I remind you that nobody has to smoke marijuana to consume it.  You can choose edibles or a vape pen that uses oil; said vapes are both nearly odorless and harmless to others, and of course so are edibles -- other than the risk of someone getting very stoned by accident if they eat your pan of brownies.  (One could even argue that outcome is deserved if they didn't ask if it was ok to have some first!)

Legalization is thus a double win.  It is long past time to remove marijuana from our federal drug laws, leaving us with a regulated and taxed system of distribution for those 21 and over who choose to consume it, just as we have today for alcohol.  To not do so immediately is a travesty that both destroys lives and empowers bigotry, including among people who ought to know better like Jeff Sessions and other members of our federal and state governments.

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Northeaster
Posts: 209
Incept: 2011-05-13

Massachusetts
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"I often wonder why it is that given both the medical profession's and pharmaceutical companies unbroken record in this regard, along with the pile of dead bodies from opioid addiction they have created the people in this nation at-large have not yet risen up with gallows and bonfires" -

People simply do not care. I'm at ground zero for The Northeast in regard to the crisis. Politicians don't answer calls, or go into hiding when we try to interview them to discuss their hypocrisy. Voters of course claim that they care and is a major issue, but when they go to vote, they stay loyal to the Party that continues to do this to them.

The Boston Police Department recently had a report buried by the media that detailed of how The Dominican Cartels run the pipeline here. They use "imposter" I.D.'s stolen from PR Residents, and our state could care less. So if the pharmaceutical companies don't kill you, The Cartel is there to help you on your journey to the grave.

http://valleypatriot.com/too-big-to-fail....



Shannonlk1
Posts: 189
Incept: 2008-12-02

Raleigh
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Its not just the medical profession against it , but big Alcohol.

https://smallbiztrends.com/2016/12/legalized-marijuana-impacts-alcohol-sales.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/debraborchardt/2017/03/13/beer-industry-could-lose-2-billion-from-legal-marijuana/#58c3c96e28c1

http://time.com/money/4592317/legal-mari....

People are coming to realize that cannabis is a superior intoxicant to alcohol. Its no surprise, most people won't get a hangover from over indulging in cannabis like they will from drinking. Not to mention in Colorado you don't even have to smoke it now. Edibles get the job done very well.

Most people will also tell you that have been around both. They would much prefer to be around somebody that is high from cannabis vs somebody that has been drinking.

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Criminals thrive on the indulgence of Society's understanding.
Nickdanger
Posts: 670
Incept: 2011-06-12

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The private prison industry is another entity that stands to lose big if cannabis is legalized. There's a lot of big money behind the continued prohibition.

http://www.allgov.com/news/where-is-the-....

Quote:
Law enforcement groups also want to maintain criminal penalties for pot possession. If the country stops waging its war on drugs, including marijuana, fewer government dollars will flow to police efforts to address this public policy issue. Municipalities will also receive less money from property seized in drug raids.

Others in the criminal justice world that want to keep the status quo of locking up marijuana offenders are private prison operators and prison guard unions. States that legalize marijuana use are likely to experience a decline in prison populationsand that will reduce the need for government to hire private prison companies and correctional officers.

The nations largest for-profit prison business, Corrections Corporation of America, once stated in a regulatory filing that: [A]ny changes with respect to drugs and controlled substances or illegal immigration could affect the number of persons arrested, convicted, and sentenced, thereby potentially reducing demand for correctional facilities to house them, according to OpenSecrets.org.


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Grammar: the difference between knowing your **** and knowing you're ****.
Ckaminski
Posts: 4280
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Mass-Hole!
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> They would much prefer to be around somebody that is high from cannabis vs somebody that has been drinking.

Depends, are they giggly drunks, or belligerent drunks?

That said, I've never met a violent pothead.
Aztrader
Posts: 7866
Incept: 2007-09-10

Scottsdale, AZ
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Saw this come out. Didn't know there were so many companies involved in this.

https://................/article/4121718....
Robc
Posts: 22
Incept: 2009-09-10

Cincinnati
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The Nixon tapes also show they pushed for criminality so they could arrest any of the hippies or blacks they wanted to shut down the anti-establishment counter culture.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?t....

Reason: Added link
Johnnyb
Posts: 42
Incept: 2014-10-21

Tulsa, OK
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I worry about marijuana because, at least from my personal experience, it seems that extended use leaves people permanently intellectually impaired. This is not healthy for a functioning democratic republic.

However, I think a simple step would be simply to reschedule it. It is currently at a laughably Schedule I drug. Reducing it to Schedule III or Schedule IV seems to be a commonsense way to test the waters. Take a decade or so and see what happens. If all goes well, take it to a Schedule V or deschedule it altogether.
Tickerguy
Posts: 150345
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Quote:
I worry about marijuana because, at least from my personal experience, it seems that extended use leaves people permanently intellectually impaired. This is not healthy for a functioning democratic republic.

Meh. Alcohol is far worse.

There are a billion things you can do to impair your intellectual or physical competency, and most people willfully and intentionally do some of them. Witness obesity.

That's an utterly bankrupt argument for making something illegal or keeping it that way.

I would MUCH rather encounter someone who is stoned in a bar or on a highway than someone who is stone drunk. In addition the long-term costs of even abusive levels of consumption of marijuana are almost-certainly MUCH lower than those caused by heavy use of alcohol.

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Nickdanger
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Quote:
I would MUCH rather encounter someone who is stoned in a bar or on a highway than someone who is stone drunk.
I worry more about encountering a drunk driver or someone who is texting while driving. I can't begin to count how many times I've almost been run off the road by a texting driver.

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Grammar: the difference between knowing your **** and knowing you're ****.
Tickerguy
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Exactly.

I'm quite sure I've run into stoned drivers; after all, legal or not plenty of people smoke weed.

But I've yet to have someone obviously smoking weed do something ridiculously dangerous to a degree that it was obvious to someone outsid eof their car while out and about on the roads, and I drive a LOT.

I've seen PLENTY of people obviously drunk or texting do so.

By now, after all these years, you'd think I would have seen ONE guy with a doobie in his hand nearly hit me if it was anywhere near as bad a situation as someone who likes to drink.

But.... nope. And I know damn well people reef up in their cars. There's a dude that likes to drive (I assume home) on one of my regular evening jogging routes and every single time he's gone by me I can smell it (strongly!) coming from his vehicle. He's never "shaved me" or otherwise been driving in a way that was in any way outwardly impaired; the only reason I know he's toking up in there is the smell.

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Oldno7
Posts: 2633
Incept: 2008-11-14

RECALL STATE USA
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Never smoked pot but I would agree to make it legal just based on the economics. Government gets to tax it and we empty our jails of those who are there with minor violations. Seems like a win/win.

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IT'S THE SPENDING STUPID The US must become less a government of men, and more a government of LAW.When people lose everything and have nothing left to lose they lose it -Gerald Celente
Thesev
Posts: 1623
Incept: 2007-10-30

Louisiana
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Can't resist.



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The reason the republic isn't working is that it's being run as a democracy.

It doesn't matter who you are, or who you Think you are, the Math is Going to Win.
Nadavegan
Posts: 58
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The South
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Not only legalize it, but also expunge the records of ALL who have been victimized by Big Justice over the years for having a few ounces of it in their possession.
Tickerguy
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Well, yes; any non-violent "offense" related to it needs to disappear at the same time for obvious reasons.

If there was violence involved then the violent part of the offense obviously stays, and since most violent offenses (or offenses against other people, such as grand theft) are felonies, those remain.

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Radiosity
Posts: 106
Incept: 2009-03-05

Sunny UK
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Oldno7 - follow the money. Last I checked, a huge number of your jails are run for profit by private companies. They ain't going to let all those people out without a fight when the people in question are making these companies lots of money by being there :/

(Feel free to correct if that's no longer the case, I haven't checked in ages, but I can't really imagine it's improved any over the last however long)
Jfms99
Posts: 219
Incept: 2009-10-06

Msumelle, Ar
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Let's call it like it is, the War on Drugs has been not just a failure, but an Abysmal Failure the last 45 plus years.

The rampant Hypocrisy and Mendacity of the Politicians, the so called Moral and Religious leaders on this is laughable at best and criminal and pathetic at it's worst.

First and foremost we will always have addicts of one degree or another, that is a fact. We subsidize,excuses for and allow Big Pharma and Alcohol to continue to operate because we think that is acceptable, yet we look at Pot and other Illegal drugs as worse that what we get legally.

I would favor some sort of plan to Legalize all Drugs. I firmly believe that once the addicts, and you would have to register as one, could get their drugs legally, then the profit motive and the market for the Drug Cartels would collapse. Yes I don't think that would mark the end of them but it sure would batter them. There is a lot to discuss and try to work out but could it be any worse than it is today?

Tickerguy
Posts: 150345
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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The biggest problem with legalizing all drugs is the fear that you'd massively add to the public health (e.g. Medicaid) bill.

The problem with that argument is that WE HAVE THE PROBLEM NOW and it is compounded by a crazy amount of criminal activity, both "hard" (e.g. B&E, armed robbery, etc) and "soft" (e.g. stealing from your grandmother, which she REFUSES to report.)

Would we have more addicts? Maybe, maybe not. There were addicts when opium and similar were sold over the counter before the original Drug Laws were passed. But many of those were functional addicts; they held jobs, they lived lives. Maybe compromised lives, maybe SEVERELY compromised lives, but they didn't have a reason to go out and rob someone.

Even more importantly there was no violent cartel providing the supply either; it was put forward in ordinary commerce and delivered like a bag of dogfood. That also meant it was taxable like a bag of dogfood. So we not only had tax revenue from this, we had no violence associated with the delivery and distribution of the drugs.

Legalizing everything would return us to that model; we could and should of course sell them through licensed dispensaries, which we have today. We call them "drug stores." They can be expected to check ID as do liquor stores. We can also mandate that for injectable drugs they be supplied with one-time-use ("ratcheting") syringes that are sterile, which would dramatically reduce the transmission of blood-borne disease between addicts. Such syringes are already available for other perfectly-legitimate uses (e.g. insulin.)

We'd still have the public health problem but it's a hell of a lot easier to reach addicts and convince them to seek treatment when they're not actively hiding from you because they fear arrest and prosecution as well....

Nonetheless, although I personally support legalizing all of it, when it comes to marijuana and its derivatives (e.g. edibles, extracted oil, etc) there's even LESS of an argument for keeping it illegal. There was never an argument for making it illegal in the first place; the entire premise and "selling" of that to the public was a deliberate lie and fraud. The people who did it are long dead, but that doesn't make defending those lies either acceptable nor does it make the laws passed on their back defensible either. We know, factually, that there is essentially no "LD-50" (that is, actual lethal overdose) for marijuana; it's quite-effectively impossible to poison yourself with it metabolically. This is very unlike most other drugs of abuse that DO have LD-50s, and what makes many of them so deadly is that tolerance build over time presses the "effective dose" (that which gets you stoned) upward until it INTERSECTS the LD-50, at which point an attempt to get stoned WILL kill you.

By the way this more-or-less is an issue with alcohol too. A SEVERE alcoholic often is objectively impaired but doesn't FEEL drunk, however there IS an objective LD-50 for booze, and thus it is entirely possible to have those curves intersect and kill you via alcohol poisoning. It usually doesn't with alcohol only because long-term abuse (sufficient to build tolerance like that) usually gets you via cirrhosis or congestive heart failure first.

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Winding it down.

Ckaminski
Posts: 4280
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Mass-Hole!
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> it seems that extended use leaves people permanently intellectually impaired.

As is wont around here, anecdotes != evidence. People who are stoned do and say dumb things. I know a number of "stoners" who sober are capable of incredible feats. Anecdotes != evidence. Sadly, a lot of them suffer from liberalism.

Top google result for "study marijuana IQ"

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/01/t....



Bjonsson
Posts: 1046
Incept: 2010-03-10

Ventura County, California
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Quote:
People are coming to realize that cannabis is a superior intoxicant to alcohol

This is true.

I was at a symposium in Atlanta years ago where the chief medical examiner for the greater Atlanta area said as much.

Alcohol affects the "lower brain", if you imbibe too much it affects critical brain functions, and if you overdose you go into a state that most resembles a coma, or worse. Marijuana affects the "upper brain", and if you overdose it spares the lower brain, and you simply just fall asleep.

He said that alcohol increases cellular level morbidity in every cell of the body, wheras MJ is relatively FAR less toxic. He said that alcohol has a particularly insidious effect on human impulse control... by his estimation, well over half of the corpses that came into his shop were sent there courtesy of alcohol... and not just due to things like car crashes. Moreso, it was things like slips and falls due to alcohol, physical assaults and battery inspired by alcohol, domestic violence, and just stupid "Darwin award" behavior due to alcohol. He said that it was a rare instance when MJ inspired any sort of similar effect on impulsivity resulting in this kind of behavior.

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"If you don't have borders... if you don't have laws... you don't have a country."
Tsherry
Posts: 935
Incept: 2008-12-09

Spokane WA
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The People's Republic of Washington is planning on something like 250M in tax revenue per year from the sales of marijuana.

https://www.502data.com/


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Omne mendacium est.
Whitehat
Posts: 151
Incept: 2017-06-27

New York City
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if we were to reduce the prison population of these low level drug offender, we could use the same facilities and resources for people who belong there and for longer terms. the justice systems at all levels are determining sentencing based upon prison crowding and associated costs, no doubt and actual open discussion validates it. often there is an outcry when some violent offender, out of prison for whatever number of times commits a serious crime. then there are discussions of how short some sentences seem for serious crimes. all of this is related to the cold math of allocation of prison resources.

it is curious whether we as a society would in any way be liable to the people imprisoned under these laws if they were ever repealed. in many cases a person's life is set on an undesirable course by time in prison and some drug sentences are very long depriving a person of much of his life. in the absence of actual liability, there will be a population of people and families who do not have warm and fuzzies for the society that ruined their lives and then said sorry, oops we goofed, all better now. the story of the BS as Karl recounts here will come out and it might lead to some uncomfortable politics and a disenfranchised group with a large beef. this group will also see all of those who profited from their loss.

perhaps the lie got so big that society does not see a quick way out. seems like they are planning to unwind it slowly. many areas are not enforcing drug laws or doing anything that yields a record, thus stopping the cycle. they did not change their laws, so there is no acknowledgement or apology to past wrongs. this change of laws might be timed to happen when those who were wronged are too old to care or dead. might be a good way of timing investments, just look at the demographics of the prison population of marijuana convictions. this might be used by the alcohol and pharma industries to plan their entry into it as a mass market business and unwind other positions. if this is not totally correct, there must be some other cold logic being employed.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
Lenguado
Posts: 2162
Incept: 2010-01-12
A True American Patriot!
Orlando, FL
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Quote:
"the War on Drugs has been not just a failure, but an Abysmal Failure the last 45 plus years"

Au Contraire!

By pretty much every measurable variable - the "War on Drugs" has been an incredible success! All the power, all the money, all the control, the ability to confiscate property, the ability to spy . . . etc, etc, etc.

Unless of course, you believe that the objective of said "War" was to reduce the use of supposed illegal drugs . . . .

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I just realized... they aren't saying, "Keynesian Economics"
they're saying "Kenyansian Economics". Grass Huts for everyone!
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Dapper_fapper
Posts: 4
Incept: 2017-11-06

texas
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IF they do completely decriminalize weed, it will come with very high taxes and outrageous regulation. For your protection of course. The money is just too good and those receiving it dont want to see it funneled into someone elses pocket other than their own.

also, marijuana has a very unique infra red signature and thats how pot planes find it. Since we cant have regular non THC hemp because of this reason, its really easy to spot competitors from the air and get after un approved sources.
Tickerguy
Posts: 150345
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Quote:
IF they do completely decriminalize weed, it will come with very high taxes and outrageous regulation. For your protection of course. The money is just too good and those receiving it dont want to see it funneled into someone elses pocket other than their own.

Except, it's not happening and it is legal in many places now.

The wholesale price has collapsed. The retail price is rational for what you get. Those who thought they were going to make "billions" are in for a big surprise; those who started growing commercially in small scale have made nice money, but they'll make less as margins compress and the market just isn't big enough to make the billions being touted.

That also means the tax revenue will be reasonably modest -- enough to matter, and be worth it, especially as an offset for addiction treatment costs (mostly for other drugs however) but it's no bonanza any more than alcohol taxes are.

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Winding it down.
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