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Tickerguy
Posts: 150077
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Quote:
The reports of the security guard saving lives would have HAD to have been known to be false by the police and press. There's no way that detail gets mistaken.

As I said NOW you know why all the PIGS looked like they were ****ting bricks in the multiple press conferences. THEY KNEW THEY WERE LYING, covering up their own unit's COWARDICE and that it would eventually come out -- if for no other reason than they couldn't keep the guard from speaking out!

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Winding it down.

Rickysa
Posts: 2066
Incept: 2007-08-22

Southern Pines, NC
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Quote:
9:59 p.m.: Hotel security guard is shot by Paddock on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino.

10:05 p.m.: First shots fired on music festival. This was seen on closed-circuit television from the concert venue.

10:12 p.m.: First two officers arrive on the 31st floor and announce that the gunfire is coming from directly above them.

10:15 p.m.: The last shots are fired by Paddock.

10:17 p.m.: The first two officers arrive on the 32nd floor.

10:18 p.m.: Security officer tells police he was shot and gives location of the gunmans room.

10:26-10:30 p.m.: Eight additional officers arrive on the 32nd floor and begin to move down the hallway, clearing every room and looking for any injured people. They no longer hear gunfire.

10:55 p.m.: Eight officers arrive in the stairwell at the opposite end of the hallway nearest to Paddocks room.

11:20 p.m.: Officers enter the room. They see Paddock on the ground and a second door that could not be accessed from their position.

11:27 p.m.: A second breach is set off, allowing officers to enter the second room. Officers quickly realize there is no one else in the rooms and announce over the radio that the suspect is down.


From: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vega.... (diagram of the layout of the suite at same site)

So Paddock fires (on the crowd) for 10 minutes, after blasting the door with the 200 rounds. During that 10 minutes, there is an unarmed security guard that has been shot in the leg present, and two minutes after the firing has stopped the two cops from the 31st floor show up on the 32nd. How on earth did no other armed security show up sooner with that cannon blasting away?

Asimov
Posts: 109515
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Quote:
10:15 p.m.: The last shots are fired by Paddock.


I guess it's right after that he accidentally shot himself or:

Quote:
10:17 p.m.: The first two officers arrive on the 32nd floor.


This triggered his suicide.

What a cluster****.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Tickerguy
Posts: 150077
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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In other words they sat for an HOUR in the stairwell -- even though he wasn't shooting!

After the ORIGINAL lie about the security guard, of course, you believe the rest of their claims.

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Winding it down.

Unknowable
Posts: 14
Incept: 2017-09-11


Banned
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They knew where the guy was.

The walls aren't bulletproof. They had radios; he was raining fire down. In that situation, especially if they had Level IV shields (which I'm assuming SWAT always runs around with), why not have trained and prepared to spray the walls from an adjoining room?

Isn't that the obvious solution to "distract" an active shooter holed up in a hotel? Or am I missing something?

Pistol bullets slow down rapidly after punching even sheet rock. Rifle bullets tend to disintegrate. Either way, the odds of punching half the hotel are ZERO. Bullets simply don't have the mass to punch one wall after another, and anyone who claims otherwise simply hasn't shot barriers with real guns. Cops have ample opportunity and funding to experiment to find an optimal approach. Three cops with pistols could have lit up the end of the room with little risk to bystanders and only modest risk to themselves.
Tickerguy
Posts: 150077
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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A shotgun with 00 buckshot would have taken the hinges off the door and they would have been in the room within seconds. Even if the first cops didn't have a shotgun or rifle (quite-possibly not) they could have riddled the door with zero risk to bystanders and drawn his fire, which would have kept him from shooting anyone below.

Now yeah, he would have shot at them. I assume their tac guys have SAPI plates in their body armor but even without that "spraying blind" has a ****ty round spent-to-hit ratio; he dumped 200rds through the door and only got the unarmed guard once in the leg. That's 200 people he DIDN'T shoot down below.

**** the cops; they're cowards. As soon as the guard got shot at and reported it (which happened immediately) you storm the ****ing suite, ESPECIALLY when you hear fire coming from there outward into the ****ing crowd!

There's NO excuse for what went down here.

ZERO.

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Winding it down.
Flappingeagle
Posts: 2681
Incept: 2011-04-14

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Quote:
If I were a castaway on Gilligan's Island, I wouldn't be trying to escape.


I've got to remember that line, its a good one.

As for shooting through sheetrock walls, I suggest hi-brass #6. They will definitely tear through the first wall and most likely be stopped by the second wall while making it a bad day for anyone in between the walls. At point-blank range they will also take the hinges off of a door so you would not have to worry about switching loads.

I have #8s in my gun at home because I don't want to shoot through any walls. They will definitely stop any intruder at inside ranges but not go through a wall and hurt anyone on the other side.

Flap

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Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
No sign that housing, equities, or farmland are in a bubble- Yellen 11/14/13
Trying to leave the Rat Race to the rats...
Badmoonrising
Posts: 186
Incept: 2009-09-02

State of Disrepair
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I remember the lies of the Pat Tillman story.
Asimov
Posts: 109515
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee Eastern Time
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I don't know how he screwed the door shut, but blowing the hinges off wouldn't do squat if he did it with any forethought at all. I certainly wouldn't put a couple screws at the knob and call it a day. I'd make the breachers use explosives or break the door apart. Ten 5" screws per side of the door and it's probably more sturdy than the wall itself.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Tickerguy
Posts: 150077
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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$20 says there were none on the hinge side.

This guy wasn't that bright.

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Winding it down.

Comrader
Posts: 255
Incept: 2010-06-10

pa
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thing is they didnt even try
Gort
Posts: 136
Incept: 2007-10-04

Chicago
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Another great piece Karl. You analyze all the bull**** out there and spit out the TRUTH. That is why you are my first read every day, and my last.

After 9-11, all first responders have been anointed heroes, and they have used this sainthood to build-up their numbers, their over-the-top gadgetry and training, and to justifying their bloated budgets. Especially law enforcement. There are some heroes in their ranks, no doubt, but to paint them all with that broad brush is bull****. For most of them its just a job. (A job that includes a .gov kick-ass pension.)

But for a local, state or federal agency or politician, for the media or even an individual citizen to dare question their bravery is like touching the third-rail. They dont have the balls you have. Instead we have to watch, after every mass shooting or natural disaster, law enforcement assembled around a podium as the media records their circle-jerk as each bleats on and on, praising this agency or team on how brave and fast they responded to this or that.

The saying When seconds count, police are minutes away. Since the creation of SWAT, it should be updated to When seconds count, police are hours away.

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No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people. - H.L. Mencken
Quik49
Posts: 4094
Incept: 2007-12-11

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They (first guys there) had a rifle before swat showed up....heard it live with my own two ears ....

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Long Vaseline....

Aracoma
Posts: 30
Incept: 2015-02-17

Tuscaloosa, Alabama
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Come on LAPD - you can do a better job of getting your story straight. What -exactly- happened?

Quote:
Police officers subsequently approached the room and were met with 200 rounds from Paddock, Lombardo said on Wednesday night. Police fell back until SWAT arrived. https://www.thedailybeast.com/unarmed-se....


or was it this?

Quote:
Paddock, who had placed security cameras outside his room, shot Campos through the door of his suite, which was outfitted with a camera to survey the hallway, as was a room service cart parked outside. Police said Paddock fired 200 rounds into the hallway. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vega....
Quik49
Posts: 4094
Incept: 2007-12-11

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Good thing he didnt haul in some 3ish foot sections of 2x's and screw them across the door it on the frame with is going to be a hollow metal 16 ga min....maybe get a few into the metal jamb studs too....he'd still be in there with those asshats

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Long Vaseline....

Elkad
Posts: 327
Incept: 2009-09-04

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The guards should have been trying.
The first police took 5 minutes to go up one floor (or to report they had anyway). And they knew what floor (and room), so why did they stop on 31 anyway?
Then they requested permission to try to enter - which was denied. WTF again? Why would you even ask?

The SWAT team I can almost understand. The shooting had stopped, so at that point they had some time. But that's time they could have had the room cleared and been back in the arena helping the wounded. Or time for the fire he could have set to spread.

We heard all these stories after other mass shootings where the cops had changed their policies. Saying things like "Instead of waiting for SWAT, the first officers there will enter immediately." It's even happened a few times just like that. But LVPD apparently didn't get the memo.

If there was a hero among the uniformed officers, I sure haven't seen any evidence of that. The heroes were in the crowd. Shielding strangers with their bodies. Giving aid while bullets were still flying. Or just standing there with a beer in one hand and a middle finger in the air. Nobody was around that guy. If he'd drawn a magazine of fire, that's a magazine that isn't getting shot into a clump of people.

Hell, every person that stayed calm enough to not trample the guy in front of him deserves a pat on the back. It sure doesn't go that way usually. I was expecting to see a LOT of trample injuries, and maybe some compression asphyxiation deaths.

The way it should have gone. Guard gets shot. He calls it in on the radio, and probably half the hotel called 911 for "machine gun fire". First 2 cops there, backed by all the armed guards, should have assaulted the room immediately. Shotguns vs hinges, axes at walls, whatever else. Assault should have been started the instant he started firing again. Every cop at the arena (and there were lots) and everywhere else on the strip should have been flooding in behind them.

You don't get out of an ambush by hiding. Or by running. You get out of it by direct and immediate assault on the attacker(s). Especially if you aren't the one in the beaten zone. If I was an off-duty officer at that show, I'd be seriously ****ing pissed at the cowardice the on-duty guys demonstrated.
Zappafan
Posts: 2984
Incept: 2007-11-30

Atlanta
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After reading that timeline, I don't like it one bit.

Over one hour between last shots fired and the cops finally storming the room?
I am not sure that was just cowardice at work, though it does fit the "wussification of everything" story line.

We have no way of telling the exact time of death of Paddock. He might have offed himself right after the first cops showed up on the 32nd floor (10:17 PM) or he might have been in his room trying to think up an escape strategy right up until near the 11:20PM time. An hour gives an accomplice plenty of time to escape down a different stairwell than the ones the cops used, assuming they did not cordon off every stairwell between the adjacent floors ( a detail I'd love to know.)

And no mention of whether the police were able to make contact with him ... we have more questions than answers here.

The tin foil brigade is going to have a field day with this. And the FBI has gotten very, very quiet. They're letting the LVPD run the show. I am starting to rethink my view here.


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Ich bin der Tankendau!
Tickerguy
Posts: 150077
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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The LVPD was just on Fox and tried to defend not storming the room -- which means they ADMITTED to the opportunity.

**** THEM WITH A CHAINSAW.

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Winding it down.
Apotheoun
Posts: 3585
Incept: 2009-08-14

MN
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I'm so far beyond done with all the bull**** it's insane. I had a bad incident with these ****s due to a wellness Check on my next door neighbor not too long ago here in MN. **** them all, no lube. **** the blue line!

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Preparing to go fishing.

I can't take the level of theft any longer.
Quik49
Posts: 4094
Incept: 2007-12-11

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Well this **** is so far off the news now it's basically over as far as anyone that could bring it to the open......hell we need to worry about wienstiens dick... Not **** that's really affecting us Joe's.... Just more reasons to have the means to protect thyself in a number of places or situations.
Govern yourself accordingly...these *******s just gave the playbook away.

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Long Vaseline....

Tsherry
Posts: 912
Incept: 2008-12-09

Spokane WA
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Everything the media tells us, especially the spokespersons, on any topic, probably since the dawn of time, is a giant, ****ing LIE.

In this case, they are selling gun control and hero worship, but not in that order.
Cbracket
Posts: 20
Incept: 2012-09-27

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The strangest thing so far about this is the utter lack of video. We saw the Ray Rice elevator assault from 2 different cameras. We recently saw the video of the Seattle player who ran from police. We saw him crouch and flee, then from another camera we saw him hide.

Yet in the most videotaped city in the US, in buildings with the most comprehensive surveillance, we have ZERO video of the perp during the run up to the assault, for any purpose at all. We have ZERO video of the counteroffensive from any angle.

What exactly is being withheld from us? What exactly is the ACTUAL scope of the original crime?
Xkn
Posts: 55
Incept: 2011-04-30

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Heh, but officer Safety went home to enjoy his fat pension, maybe even double-dip. That is all what counts. For like 99% of all cops. Ugh I mean First Responders, to use preferred term.
Flaps10
Posts: 6735
Incept: 2008-10-17

PNW
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I guess this answers why the FBI let the cops take the press briefings and why the sheriff seemed so nervous.

I've dabbled the reverse timeline to a few people and don't seem to be getting much outrage.

I wonder, had the guy been a flag waving Nazi yelling the N word while raining lead into the crowd if people might be more upset at the "wait and see" approach
Ktrosper
Posts: 3295
Incept: 2010-04-06

ft collins co
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Elkad wrote..
why did they stop on 31 anyway?
Because they knew the gunfire was coming from 32.
Elkad wrote..
requested permission to try to enter - which was denied. WTF again? Why would you even ask?

Because they were hoping to get denied. Gunfire is scary/dangerous ****!
How can they enjoy their pensions if they are dead, Elk?

These are the actions of cowards.

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The unexamined life is not worth living.-Socrates
The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle
Liberty exists now in the spaces government has not yet chosen to occupy.-Doc Zero
I anticipate that 10 Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders will blow me this evening.-K.D
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