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Tickerguy
Posts: 149426
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Exactly.

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Winding it down.
Nonsensical
Posts: 111
Incept: 2017-06-16

Los Angeles, Ca
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Bill Clinton could've negotiated North Korea into China getting into the WTO and favorable nation status. We still would've been screwed by "free" trade but there was a lot of leverage that could've been used. Which should just the show the greed behind the deal with China and how quickly they wanted to make it.

And why would China arm North Korea? We don't know a lot of what goes on in the Chinese leadership, but not all of it was for arming North Korea. Obviously the faction that wanted to won. So why? Because anytime they get tired of North Korea they'll just call us up and have us clean the mess up. Trump made constant mention of this while running that the US politicians were stupid because they brokered deals that always left the US as the patsy.

And by arming North Korea it brings them closer and closer to reaching the US, which means it's a problem the US can't ignore, which better positions China for when they want to dump Kim Jong-un the US will have a greater incentive to do it.

We'll know if China gets serious about North Korea when they stick a significant military presence inside North Korea. The US is obviously serious about defending South Korea because there's a military presence, so attacking South Korea would be attacking the US. The only significant Chinese personnel in North Korea are nuclear engineers and computer hackers--yeah, I don't suspect that all of those sophisticated North Korean hack jobs were solely done by North Koreans. But I'm sure they have their own set of hackers...and they probably hack everyone including China.

There's been talk in the press about the North Korean artillery. Okay, let's assume they have sufficient ammunition and equipment, that is, replacement parts and that the majority are in working order. If you're the artillery crew, and the Chinese aren't showing up, and you know the rest of your military is garbage, do you fire? If you're the fat pudgy general, do you give the order? The moment one artillery piece fires it's dead as its locked in and counter artillery destroys it. If the artillery is actually in working order, and so feared, that's precisely the bargaining power a general is likely to use. Most of those fat pudgy generals haven't probably worked a day in their life. But of course there's always the risk they still fire off.

They're probably not even trained well enough to even deploy without massive traffic jams (and it's not that simply to deploy, just look at rush hour in any major city).

And, I doubt the North Koreans will deploy. This is another tactic that is being tried. If the North Koreans deploy then they would have to be armed...does this open them up for a military coup. The North Korean leadership strictly controls arms and ammunition (which is another deployment problem) because they don't know which generals can be trusted.

And could they afford to keep their military in a ready position. Of course not.

So the real worry is, do the North Koreans suspect they're being dealt by the Chinese and then preemptively launch a missile? That's the real worry. So the public Chinese rhetoric doesn't bother me because what's said behind the scenes could be something else altogether, and likely. But if the Chinese said openly, yeah, kill North Korea, well, then there's a preemptive missile launch to who knows where.

To show the opposite of what you really intent is a Chinese proverb that's become a cliche.

War is always serious business, but how do you negotiate with a country whose economy is based on blackmailing.

The Chinese will just move their hacker programs to Africa.
Mangymutt
Posts: 412
Incept: 2015-05-03

Vancouver WA
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Response -Hope

"That was a viable political (but not intelligent) strategy during the last few administrations"

When Pandora opened the box of deadly sins, 7 were released, however the deadest of all remained. Hope.

You get no argument from me that there is very little room left to talk. Old man Bush could have and should have fixed this. Reagan should have, so should have every other world leader for the last 50 years. Yet each one has hoped to push this **** sammich on down the table and it has worked for them.

Now it is Trumps turn in front of this **** sammich a sammich he has known about at least since the late 90's.

What has Trumps strategy for health care been? Action or words?

He knows what to do, you have laid it out in terms the most simple minded can grasp, others have posted countless responses and even some main stream media sources have said basically the same thing you have.

However it appears his main strategy on solving the health care issue and therefore a large portion of our economy, is hope. He is hoping Obamacare will collapse all on it's own. Oh it will fail and spectacular, but because you have already penned much on this subject, I will not say much more than it seems Trump is hoping instead of acting.

When I lived in a very bad town, (well the valley as a whole was bad)I had neighbors that sold drugs, stole everything that was not nailed down and generally terrorized the neighborhood. One night a group of them were in their back yard drinking, I watch one of the guys walk over to my fence and toss some empty bottles. I immediately confronted him and told (Not asked) him to come get the empties. He started to climb the fence. NO! Walk around and get them. He did.

While I was at that house only two times did they ever steal anything from me (That I know of) the first time my daughter borrowed my truck and parked it out front on a public street. As night came she asked if she should move it to the back, I said no, I will be leaving around 7am. Well wouldn't you know it the window was broken out and the stereo gone.

The next day I went to my neighbors uncle and told him I do not want any problems and if I get me stereo back there will be none. I got MY, not a like stereo. MY stereo back.

A couple weeks later I got up to go to work and my stereo was gone.

My guess is the guy who originally stole it sent someone else to reclaim it. At that point there was no reason to pursue it, but I did set my new stereo up in such a way much pain would be caused to the thief. Sadly that never happened :(

The point is I did not hope the bad neighbors would treat me fairly, I did not hope the police would take care of them. They (the neighbors) knew there would be a price to pay and for them it was not worth it.

I am not saying hope is a smart or viable strategy, however given some of Trumps actions so far a president, I believe he is hoping it will go away.

You know it, I know it, everyone with half a brain knows it. Time is up, actions need....errrrr WILL to take place.

But of course there is always hope.
Nonsensical
Posts: 111
Incept: 2017-06-16

Los Angeles, Ca
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@Mangymutt.

Not at all. This is the whole point of lighting a fire under a politicians ass. Yes, Trump has one lit right now, and if he wants to survive and have anyone come to his defense, he better start doing something. If it gets much worst for him he'll face even problems after he's out of office--even his big back Peter Thiel has been expressing open doubts.

At some point, a politician says it's either him or me. For all I know, Trump could go after Bezos or Google, or both. Under normal circumstances it could be suicidal to go after the big powers, but if your survival is on the line, it may be the only way you can survive. I don't know what Trump is going to do in regards to anything, but a lot of the things he said while campaigning, he might actually be forced to do, and that makes the situation more dangerous to the power he identified while running.

It's too much in the open to make "secret" deals with the powers that be, and your problem is stemming from the public, and yes, sometimes you have to throw them a bone. The question is, if there's a bone thrown, who will it be?

Chuck Schumer also made mention of monopolies...there should be a fire under his ass, too, to the point that that should be the only thing Schumer talks about. Forget about all of his other progressive policies because once the monopolies are broken the problems being citing why those progressive policies are needed will likely go away.

I have no problem roasting Trump...the problem is, we're not roasting enough politicians.

Here contact Chuck Schumer:

https://www.schumer.senate.gov/contact/e....

And cite this piece where he mentions monopolies: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/opini....

Everyone should contact Schumer and tell him you were linked from The Market ticker where Karl Deinninger has been talking about monopolies. If just a third of the people who browse his cite contact him over a short period of time, then perhaps someone from Schumer's office contacts Karl and asks, what's going on. And maybe Karl will be nice, at least at the start...

The point being is, light fires under their asses, it might not work, but doing nothing won't work at all
Vernonb
Posts: 1848
Incept: 2009-06-03

East of Sheol
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Personally NK is just a puppet of the Chinese. Thanks to Bill Clinton the Chinese got the guidance system for their ICBMs to reach around the world. The Chinese will give that tech to the NKs if the NKs haven't already stolen it with spies within China and the USA.

Honestly, the inmates are running the political asylum and we are the fodder.










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"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Dennisglover
Posts: 715
Incept: 2012-12-05

Huntsville, AL
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Okay, here's the thing... Nonsensical essentially has said, "Light whatever fires are needed, underneath the precious fundaments of any and all concerned, keep the fires lighted, and keep making them hotter."

I like that idea a lot.

I never had a decent boss "light a fire" underneath my posterior when I didn't quite soon get either "the idea" or another job.

Who's the boss here? Is it a political party? No. Is it a government? No. Is it a person (who is possibly a creepy clown a la "Pennywise"), who happens to sit in the Oval Office and at the Resolute Desk? No.

The People are the Boss (cf. Amendments 9 and 10). When the vast and great collective of "the People" start acting like "the Boss", then things might come around to a betterment. Not one silly instant before that!

The Framers wrote..
We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


It takes little exegetical skill, in English or any other language, to understand without question that it was not precisely and only a Constitutional Convention who wrote those words in 1787. No. It was "We, the people of the United States" who framed that. I wasn't there corporeally, but I damn sure was there in spirit!

Now, in 1776 a document of a very different character was written, and by many of the same men who wrote again in 1787: the Founders, who had such things to say as
The Founders wrote..
When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation...

{and}

That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.
Okay, who is "fair game"? Easy answer: all of the "political class". Pick your target, whether it be Trump, Schumer, McConnell, any and all of them are "fair targets", for they have brought the spotlight to themselves, and "we, the people" are in fact now, and for a long time have been, "reduce[d] under absolute despotism".

I cannot call it any other way!

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TANSTAAFL
Bjonsson
Posts: 979
Incept: 2010-03-10

Ventura County, California
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Quote:
@bjonnson

Honestly, it's comments like that that make the task of fixing America seem almost hopeless.

So you're implying that "free trade" with China and the rise of Silicon Valley has...created jobs and real growth nothing needs to be "managed". Believe it or not there's some smart people in the US who would like to make money and will figure out how to manufacture things. Who do you think idioticly taught the Chinese.

I actually think you made a convincing argument for why we should have 300% tariffs.

Excuse me?

You really need to re-read my post with a little more attention.

First off, in my post I AGREED with the sentiment for tariffs on China.

AND, I ALSO agreed with your assessment of our tech economy being bull****, and a total bubble. In fact, here is my quote... maybe I should have been less coy about it:

Quote:
our only "growth" (cough cough) industry


You ranted on and on about the hollow and overvalued nature of our tech industry... but I never made any assertion that it wasn't!

ALL I was saying is that imposing 300% tariffs on China is going to burst a big bubble. AND, if you read my post, I actually AGREE that the burst of this bubble is inevitable. My post was just asking whether or not going about it in this way should be thought through, and managed, before it is done.

Please re-read my post.

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"If you don't have borders... if you don't have laws... you don't have a country."
Whitehat
Posts: 95
Incept: 2017-06-27

New York City
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The North Koreans are not going to do anything without our direct provocation. The would be completely destroyed and know it. The Chinese would not allow this to happen as NK is a buffer zone between them and SK. It is my belief that China has had enough of the current dictator and he wants to push for a feeling of more independence as his country survives at the whim of China. He cannot move horizontally or become an economic trading partner with anyone. He is a pariah in the world. This is not a good psychological state for someone who knows that he inherited his status. The sons of the great leader stand in his shadow forever. His country geologically might have more strategic minerals than China and he cannot market them. Privy and starvation are the norm there and he rules by fear. As Machiavelli tells us, stretching out fear over time causes hatred. What can he do, annihilate his people? He is looking for relevance and hoping that the USA will step up and legitimize him. He has tasted our culture and wants some of it, so this bluff is to get us to normalize relations. China might already be doing this, but we should work with them towards regime change unless this is already going on and everything currently is a show. We need to start the process of trade with them in a manner that will not upset the Chinese. He needs to bring food, manufactured goods, industry and safe technology into his country, along with purpose. China will not sell to them as they are not a market to them, in fact a potential competitor.

He will not attack now, absolutely not. The real danger comes in ten to twenty years if we do not work to normalize things now and China then is in the midst of their coming population and markets decline. Then we will have two epic dangers at hand.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
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