You're All Stupid
The Market Ticker - Commentary on The Capital Markets
2017-07-20 11:43 by Karl Denninger
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You're All Stupid
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So you want Alexa to control your appliance eh?

You're going to put an Alexa-powered device in your house and then tell it to start the washing machine?  Really?

How are you going to have Alexa load said washing machine?

Look folks, this announcement of Sears selling Kenmore appliances via Amazon is stupid.  It's brain-dead stupid because not one person in 100 will install their own refrigerator, say much less a dishwasher, stove, washer or dryer.

Sure, I will and do, but I'm 1 in 100.  Literally.

But if you think there's a tie-in with Alexa here, let me point something out -- if I see one of those "smart things" in your house I'm leaving as soon as I do see it and I'll never darken your door again.  Nor will I hire you.  Nor will I associate with you.  You've proved beyond any doubt that you will spy on our interaction and deliver the contents of our conversations and interactions to others without my consent.

That means I don't want you in my house because you probably have such a device in your pocket and it's turned on.  You're not welcome in my office or business -- at least not beyond the public areas, where there's no expectation of anything.  I won't drink a beer with you, because we might talk about something that I believe is between the two of us, but suddenly it won't be.

You're an *******, in short, who thinks there is some "gain" in speaking three words instead of pushing one button that you happen to be standing right next to while loading said washing machine.

Go **** yourself.

There are a few younger people who are are figuring this out.  Soon a lot of them will.  I've already seen plenty of evidence that this sort of surreptitious spying is going on via apps and phones, and when I can pinpoint who was carrying said device at the time they're done as far as I'm concerned -- permanently.

When this reaches general public consciousness, and it will, to simply own one of these devices will be enough to get you -- and the company that sold any of the pieces of it -- blackballed en-masse.

Yes, this includes Kenmore appliances -- and Spamazon.

Spamzon will find it's pair of cement shoes in the market through this "synergy."

Count on it.

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User Info You're All Stupid in forum [Market-Ticker]
Beango
Posts: 706
Incept: 2009-06-05

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"Alexa, how do I protect my privacy?"
Vernonb
Posts: 1848
Incept: 2009-06-03

East of Sheol
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"Alexa when should I report to the detention and extermination camp?"

Sometimes I think it is because some people seem to get a thrill by bossing other people around. These devices serve as that surrogate to the truly impotent.


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"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Bagbalm
Posts: 5264
Incept: 2009-03-19

Just North of Detroit
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What do you do when almost anyone you know may be an unwitting block captain for the digital Stasi? How soon before the phone at the next table in a restaurant can filter and separate the conversations at neighboring tables? Especially if there are four or five mics live in the room to compare the signal.
What will your kids say at their friend's house that will be picked up by the house nanny cam or toaster? Is your OnStar mic really off or reporting everything you say? And do your children in school have any expectation of privacy? Or is the interactive teaching assistant listening to the lunchroom chatter too?
Wifi
Posts: 615
Incept: 2013-02-13

Seagrove Beach
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Damn it Alexa, I told you those aren't my skid marks! Now wash my clothes bitch.smiley

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Hurricane Evacuation Plan
1.Grab Beer
2.Run Like Hell
Drewracer406
Posts: 1
Incept: 2017-07-20


Banned
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Yes I give up (additional) privacy with this device, but why do I care? Privacy is so dead. As you pointed out, even if you turn off your device, someone near you likely has one on. Security cameras are everywhere you go. Satellites can zoom in and see if your shoes are tied or not. Your utility company knows if you're home or not from your usage. Your cable company knows what you're watching, what you've searched for, and what kind of porn you like. If you own a mobile phone, you can't even begin to pretend your privacy is intact. Data is uploaded from that device on a near constant basis, I don't care what settings you turn on or off, it has the ability to communicate, even just 'pings', and it will do so all day long. I'm not sure why you're taking a stand here when privacy is so dead in so many other places. Why the listening devices? I'm honestly surprised you even use the internet if you really believe in privacy the way you say you do. The targeted ads I get by leaving on those settings in my browser are actually welcomed, compared to the tampon and cornflakes ads I would get with the settings off. Why do I care if my searches for Forstner bits or pool contractors is public knowledge? I couldn't care less who hears my conversations. And people who do care probably have something to hide, or are just unreasonably paranoid like yourself. I see you're upset that people willingly give up information about themselves, I guess my question is simply "Why?" I see a lot of posts from you like this, but you never explain why it's so bad, and what are the implications of large corporations, and by proxy the government, having this information about us? I don't want some conspiracy that has a zero percent chance of occurring, I'm looking for a legit concern and I don't see one. That would be a far more interesting read than blanket insults and illogically selective rage thrown at such a large demographic.
Jack_crabb
Posts: 5246
Incept: 2010-06-25

Peoples' Republik of Maryland
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Stop, Bagbalm!! Your sci-fi imagination is hurting me!!

(I'm mostly serious, too...)

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Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
How many are willing to pledge this? We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor
Tickerguy
Posts: 149426
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Quote:
I don't want some conspiracy that has a zero percent chance of occurring, I'm looking for a legit concern and I don't see one. That would be a far more interesting read than blanket insults and illogically selective rage thrown at such a large demographic.

If that data has VALUE then it is ALREADY being used to **** you out of more that it is being sold for. Were it not costing you at least that much it couldn't be sold for it.

That you have trouble identifying exactly where you're getting hosed (e.g. an extra $100 on your car insurance, another extra $100 on your homeowners, a few ticks higher interest rate on your car loan, etc) doesn't mean you're NOT getting the ramjob. It just means they have (successfully, for now) obscured the effect to a sufficient degree that you haven't managed to measure it as of today.

Oh, and you failed your saving throw.
Inline

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Winding it down.

Jack_crabb
Posts: 5246
Incept: 2010-06-25

Peoples' Republik of Maryland
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Drewracer406 perfectly demonstrated (note the past tense smiley) why 'Murica is ****ed. "If you don't have anything to hide..." Idiot.

Thank you for saving us from more drivel from that assclown, Karl.

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Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
How many are willing to pledge this? We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor
Nadavegan
Posts: 23
Incept: 2017-05-03

The South
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Drewracer:

First of all, anyone who likes "targeted" ads has issues. I find it is people who like to feel catered-to, who like that warm fuzzy feeling of being fussed over. Which is fine I guess, but it just seems like a weak thrill and a weak way to get it, and therefore would only be a thrill for weak people.

Second, you just don't see - there is no conspiracy. It is happening. When the Alexa mic detects that you and your significant other have had a verbal altercation, will it affect your health insurance rates? It should. It is no different than you meeting with your agent and saying, "well, yes, we yell at each other once in awhile. Our relationship is not as perfect as I outwardly communicate. I have high stress, which makes me unhealthier and therefore a higher risk. Please adjust my rates accordingly." How about the mic overhearing you make a joke about cheating on your taxes? Think nothing will happen? Or your car insurance rates doubling because the route you take for work passes through the most dangerous intersection in town, and you have no idea why, but the data on your phone was bought by your insurer. No change in mileage or ability, just one route choice over another.

These things are upon us. It is not harmless. It is not convenient. It does not save you time or money.
Local_yokel
Posts: 224
Incept: 2008-12-18

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What we tell our kids is "I can always choose to release all my privacy and data in the future if I choose to. I cannot do the opposite."

I don't think like a criminal/sociopath (that's a good thing), so I don't always know what harm can befall me, so I think defensively.

Same explanation about debt: we can always throw caution to the wind and lever up if we want to get in the future. Can't do the opposite. It's really about having options under your control.
Aztrader
Posts: 7806
Incept: 2007-09-10

Scottsdale, AZ
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Totally AGREE this is nothing burger in competition to the main vendors of appliances unless They sell them for 5% margins. Both HD and Lowes will deliver any appliance over $400 for free and if its damaged will come and get it. Let's see Amazon try to match this service. They also do price matching.
Emg
Posts: 96
Incept: 2012-11-20

Canada
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"What do you do when almost anyone you know may be an unwitting block captain for the digital Stasi?"

Buy a few acres in the country and retire there to wait for the collapse. That's what I'd like to do before long.

The main reason I oppose a burqa ban is because we'll all have to wear one in a few years. Probably one of the fancy ones from that P.K. Dick movie that constantly display shifting images of random people to foil face recognition.

And no, I don't want no telescreen in my house.
Whoknew
Posts: 39
Incept: 2013-04-08

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I don't care how little they say they will encroach, you must push back! You give an inch and they take a mile. I don't get it, either, why anyone would invite such junk into their lives (and pay for it, too?!). It's not even a "convenience" since you still have to go to the washer to load it, etc., as you stated.

I, too, have seen some other young people getting it to some extent. I can only hope that your prediction comes true in the least painful way possible for the others (where you say that "soon a lot will"). I still don't see enough resistance, though, from my peers or society as a whole.

If you're ever in the area, need a break from the insanity, and don't mind sort of a step back in time--to a house with a rotary phone, no television or microwave, etc., you are welcome in my humble abode that's completely tracker-free besides the computer with a wired-only internet connection in the office. Just be sure to extend me the same courtesy by checking any cellular recorder you have at the door!
Tickerguy
Posts: 149426
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Quote:
I, too, have seen some other young people getting it to some extent. I can only hope that your prediction comes true in the least painful way possible for the others (where you say that "soon a lot will"). I still don't see enough resistance, though, from my peers or society as a whole.

I hope it comes true with a LOT of pain to those who have been involved in doing this sort of crap.

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Winding it down.
Mrkarol
Posts: 11
Incept: 2015-12-15

Chicago
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unfortunately, it is becoming damn hard to find a non-smart TV these days. The new LG in my basement has a little piece of electrical tape over the camera. However, I'm not sure that helps.

What drives me mad is that I have to explain myself to people about why I don't "use" facebook. I'm not a recluse; I just don't want to publish a timeline of my life for the world to see. And don't me started about pictures of your kids on FB. I'm sure that when they grow up, they will be thrilled to hear that their photos are out there. You can tell them about the times when you sat around with family and friends and looked through photo albums in the privacy of your family room.
Whoknew
Posts: 39
Incept: 2013-04-08

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Quote:
I hope it comes true with a LOT of pain to those who have been involved in doing this sort of crap.


Good point. I was referring to the masses falling victim, never having considered the consequences. I would show no sympathy for those perpetrating it, either.
Whitehat
Posts: 95
Incept: 2017-06-27

New York City
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once i get the place cleaned up anyone in my area that needs a break is welcome here.

thanks Karl for validating this, the few people that i let into my house get kind of pissy when their iCrap has to land in the old pressure cooker on the telephone table by the front door. mostly did it as Apple **** is unwelcome in my house, but now all stuff is subject to the Faraday cage.

what really interests me is where in our lives are they using this information and how can we find out. my insurance friend gave me insights into my rating, but he does not know the mechanism or exactly where they pull the data and build the profile. i am surprised that some investigative journalist has not infiltrated this world to see whether your driving route or your social habits are actually raising your rates like you propose a $100.00 here and there. i know that i can get the data through contacts, but have the companies actually started working with it yet or developed risk profiles like they did with credit scores being predictive of other behaviors. actually, credit scores could be passe now that new metrics are being proposed. however, it takes a lot of academic and industry research to develop these metrics. the industry shares research on this work. somewhere the story has to get out how you are being profiled. simple stuff like going to bars is obvious for auto insurance, but the other stuff is not unless they are winging it.

i am beginning to date again and younger females, the iPhone crowd usually, seem to get it more than i would have expected and comply with my rules. something is changing.

to the ****heads with the whole nothing to hide BS, the real threat is when this is ubiquitous. it will probably come in stages where you can still get a quality product without, few years later disable-able, few years have to do some surgery, few years more disabling breaks things, few years again it has its own cellular modem plus the previous. i can see web searches and videos to find the microphones and disabling techniques. just wait until you can't.

i feed the system BS and according to my insurance guy seem to be succeeding. right now a few friends when we are around someone's Alexa **** have acted out some juicy scenarios, disposing of a body, drug dealing, you name it. we are really honing the story so that it is consistent. one wants to simulate an altercation with a female and then have a gunshot. so far nothing yet, but would love to see the profile on the idiots who let it and us into their homes.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
Tickerguy
Posts: 149426
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Quote:
what really interests me is where in our lives are they using this information and how can we find out. my insurance friend gave me insights into my rating, but he does not know the mechanism or exactly where they pull the data and build the profile. i am surprised that some investigative journalist has not infiltrated this world to see whether your driving route or your social habits are actually raising your rates like you propose a $100.00 here and there. i know that i can get the data through contacts, but have the companies actually started working with it yet or developed risk profiles like they did with credit scores being predictive of other behaviors.

I caught a car insurance company doing this **** more than a decade ago. It's only gotten worse -- much worse -- since.

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Winding it down.
Whitehat
Posts: 95
Incept: 2017-06-27

New York City
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placing tape over the laptop camera is going to seem so quaint. Lenovo lets you disable the camera and mic at the BIOS level thankfully, but it would be nice to know that the core operating software is not capable of doing something ****ty. as much as I like my first smartphone the galaxy s5, and did the best security audit that one could do; it is not a trustworthy system, so i treat it as a threat and act accordingly. the permissions are too general and at the core it does things that profile. so it just becomes my hotspot for my laptop from which i tunnel to an office computer for remote desktop when i need privacy.

this same issue occurred with PC now and in the past where you give one install permission and the software could do anything from there. most you can do is watch packets or block them. the smartphone takes it to a whole new level.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
Drifter
Posts: 121
Incept: 2016-02-11

Pacific Northwest
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They came up with Alexa because Skynet was already taken.
Whitehat
Posts: 95
Incept: 2017-06-27

New York City
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Karl, i am curious as to the details regarding the car insurance company, what they used and how did you catch them. if you care not to disclose, ok. something like this should be on the news if they still worked for a living.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
Tickerguy
Posts: 149426
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Oh, I'd rather not go into how I caught them..... after all, what I publish here IS public and I prefer to leave the avenue for catching other firms open in the future..... smiley

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Winding it down.

Whitehat
Posts: 95
Incept: 2017-06-27

New York City
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yes Karl, i understand. there are a few dark arts that i keep to myself for the same reasons.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
Lenguado
Posts: 2057
Incept: 2010-01-12
A True American Patriot!
Orlando, FL
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Quote:
Look folks, this announcement of Sears selling Kenmore appliances via Amazon is stupid. It's brain-dead stupid because not one person in 100 will install their own refrigerator, say much less a dishwasher, stove, washer or dryer.

Bet the price comes with delivery and installation included.

The nice NSA-Kenmore Inc. man/woman/it will gladly enter your home (if they haven't already . . . smiley) to install your "New & Improved Home Appliance"! They'll even throw in and install a set of FREE Alexa compatible thermostats & light switches for each room that all have "Voice and Video activation in them! YAY - how convenient! More Better FREE stuff!!!!
smiley

So far, I've installed ALL of the "refrigerator, say much less a dishwasher, stove, washer or dryer" appliances in our house - as well as 2 water heaters (NONE of them smart . . .). The only one not done so far is the oven - but that will be done at some point also.

As far as folks, "getting it" - I run into WAY more Drewracer406s than I run into folks like us. Heck, my beloved spouse STILL doesn't really get it re Apple iCrap devices. . . . grrrrr....

My response to, "Why should I care, I don't have anything to hide" ("And people who do care probably have something to hide, or are just unreasonably paranoid like yourself") types of comments from folks is, "OK then, give me your phone and your password if you have one. I just want to check out your texts, emails, your videos & photos - especially the ones of you and your boy/girlfriend." After all - you just said that you "have nothing to hide". Shuts them up pretty quickly.

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I just realized... they aren't saying, "Keynesian Economics"
they're saying "Kenyansian Economics". Grass Huts for everyone!
smiley
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