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User Info Jail. Now. Not Bailouts in forum [Market-Ticker]
Whitehat
Posts: 38
Incept: 2017-06-27

New York City
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Hi Dantes, meet your new friends. Perhaps Karl could grant you a reprieve so that you can stick around a while, get to know us better, participate in the free and open exchange of ideas and opinions. Maybe you could serve as a sounding board for us to hash out the issues. You being a link to a world, a kind of data-feed for us to go into evaluation mode. Honestly, an electronic punching bag.

Dantes, doctors like you really suck.

Living in the peoples republic of new york city gives some additional information. this is a Medicaid/Medicare town. every major hospital, physician and provider accepts this blissfully. i was part of a group of businessmen who evaluated the finances of a major hospital and have had major access to the finances of doctors' businesses due to my profession. every one of said could be profitable accepting only Mediwhatever. in fact, they often make more money at the office and testing center level. why, you ask. some insurance companies actually pay offices a fixed rate to see an unlimited number of their policyholders each month. this is not a high number. two or three Medi's exceed this number. Medi approves most tests and treatments. patients are responsible for a part of the fee if they do not have a part b supplement or an advantage plan (Medi HMO (health mess org)). so before you tell us the Medi numbers, are you referring to the traditional Medicare or Medicaid where the feds pay everything, little to no questions asked. Now with Medicaid there is a supplementary insurance setup, you are paid like Medicare. Very few with the exception of the profoundly disabled are on traditional Medicaid. Regarding these, they are treated by the best world-class doctors, office and hospital, who seem to have no problems earning enough income through this. It helps that a very good friend was a poster child for UCP to really understand how things work.

In NYC with the latest health mess your eligibility is solely determined by income, not assets. you ****ing know what is coming. for years here, trustafarians, idle rich, people living with relatives, working for cash, you get the idea, qualified for full Medicaid based upon income alone. Some were my clients, so I have an inside baseball here. why would people with ****loads of money risk not buying insurance like us troglodytes and take their chances with the excellent doctors (best NYC doctors and hospitals) not accepting it. It only got better with Obamacare.

My experience, I have been continuously covered by insurance that i purchased for myself and family since 1991. My insurance has never paid more than $4k TOTAL over this ENTIRE time. For me it is if things get bad, rest my business. When healthcare reform came on the scene here something happened. I was working a semi-retirement job for a few years that did not extend into the winter season when one had to apply for Obamamess. The new system of course is required around here as we have our own health exchange, lucky us. I figured that it would vomit up the usual GHI ****, maybe cost more since I worked all my life, paid all my bills or whatever. Dig this, the system said that since I was unemployed, drum roll: full Medicaid, no kidding. I called them at the exchange and explained simple stuff, like owning a house outright, cars paid for, money in the bank, job three seasons, going back to work in the spring. The really nice guy who was so excited about working in this new great healthcare future asked me why I did not want to get free healthcare. He was excited that I won some sort of prize. My concern was that i understood that accepting this means liens against property. Turns out, I could play the game until age 55 without consequence and after that it really only affects my heirs, nice world. Gets better, if I qualify income wise for four months, I stay on the plan for the entire year regardless of what I eventually earn that year. By accident my job was perfect for this scam. Now the most pertinent detail.

I decided to ask a representative sample of ****, I mean doctors if they would continue to see me if I had Medicaid. Answer: a resounding YES!!! The ******* cardiologist who charged me $350.00 a visit as a private payer when he accepted $75.00 from insurance, got a friendly no problem from him. His diagnostics at over $5000.00 as a cash payer, usually about $700 from insurance, of course, he was gladly willing to accept this Medicaid. I called every doctor specialist, office, cancer hospitals, lab companies, you name it. Same answer, yes. NB: i have never used this "insurance" "benefit" so I am only saving the premium that i used to pay for my backup plan.

If doctors, specialists, hospitals and vendors in a high cost of living market are fine with Medicaid and Medicare, where are you that this is not adequate income for you. And you all suck for taking advantage of people like me when you did not accept the particular insurance that we have, but charge us multiple times as a cash payer. Or when we are not at deductible and pay a cash rate. if you only knew how many chronically sick people you financially raped doing this. none of us fault you for needing to be compensated. just charge us the same.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
Analog
Posts: 1423
Incept: 2010-12-29

arkansas ozarks
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@Dantes

I actually don't blame you practicing doctors.

The bean counter mentality in accounting offices combined with the middle-management Parkinsonian drive toward ever larger bureaucracy
results in a 'Paperwork Blob' that grows to consume the available cash flow
financing ever more powerful bean microscopes
and an insurance cash churn so huge that a "reasonable return" from it makes Eldorado look like shantytown.
No wonder they can afford to capture the regulators and the networks....

You got some harsh words here. I hope they're a wakeup .
You're a foot soldier and i don't doubt your integrity.

Albert Speer said it in his memoir - "When you live in a fishbowl you tend to not notice how murky it's become."

My question to you is - How did AMA ever let the financiers take over your profession ?

a.

ps suggested reading:
"The Law of Delay" C Northcote Parkinson
"Slave State" Albert Speer

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Never trust a computer with anything important.
Whitehat
Posts: 38
Incept: 2017-06-27

New York City
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Jack_crabb wrote..
One would think a doctor would have decent reading comprehension and reasoning ability. Dante proves otherwise.

Yeah, Dante, doctors are part of the problem. You willingly participate in the scam. If you refuse to believe or accept that, then **** you.


living with pigs one becomes accustomed to filth

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
Tickerguy
Posts: 149209
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Funny how he hasnt come back...

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Winding it down.
Whitehat
Posts: 38
Incept: 2017-06-27

New York City
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Karl, a lot of us share your view and mathematically understand the why and how it will fall apart, birds of a feather.

I have had this dark fantasy for the past two decades. Can it not just be a slow grind down where the misery builds as we become a broken down, decaying, mundane, depressing decline. Something so slow that it is more like rot. How about a breakdown as in order, kind of loss of control, no go zones, destruction on a large enough scale that the system kind of breaks. While this brings a smile on its face there is a deeper meaning. If things break badly enough, certain restrictions might, say, go away. Or at least the priorities will be different and things will be so bad that no one will care or ever investigate. In other words large governmental entities will be too handicapped or busy to deal with local or regional community activities. They will have a different more focused function.

Let's think of the possibilities in this new world. Public shaming of people, perhaps with some form of discomfort. Yes, we have this provision against cruel and unusual punishment, however the powers that be are more than content to allow people to be raped in prison and be subject to gang oppression with full knowledge by officials that it is happening. It is surprising that human rights lawyers have not picked up on this.

There is this fun series on Amazon Prime called Defiance. One of the characters really amuses me. In the first few episodes they have this "shaming ritual," kind of a take on being quartered. Would love to see a few executives, medical administrators, other assorted dirtbags get it.

While the above has entertainment value, it makes a point. Societal breakdowns invite other things and there could be other world issues happening concurrently that interact or at least make things worse. Bad **** tends to go together for some cosmic reason. Do not delude yourselves, inviting the depression of our country brings risks that are serious. People like me who can survive massive amounts of misery, can build many things, fix most things and be leaders; do you think we are going to just help anyone. Think some retired teacher will not get ejected from our presence or some soft snowflake millennial will get fed or aided. You really need to think about what you have to offer people like us who can do things. You might not like the price. And may the gods help you if you think that you will be telling us what to do.

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There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
Vernonb
Posts: 1817
Incept: 2009-06-03

East of Sheol
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Flaps said:
Quote:
Ok, here's how part of the scam works. Suppose that instead of Medicare you had regular insurance with a $1000 deductible. This is where the $418 comes in, you get charged the full $418 and you HAVE TO PAY IT OR GET SUED. So, you have just kicked an extra $418 to your insurance company minus the Dr's cut, which, making up a number could be $100.

Let's not forget the other part of the scam flaps. You have insurance and the hospital accepts the insurance (which is to have been previously negotiated). When you get to the check in and registration the day of the procedure they then present you with even more forms that say the patient will now cover any costs not covered by the insurance. This is all of course for a procedure when the actual costs WERE NEVER DISCLOSED to the patient to start. The patient - if he has a potential life threatening issue - is now under duress to sign the forms for fear of his life and health.

I'd like to take this opportunity to give a special shout out at the medical scammers of the Mt. Nittany Medical Center in State College, PA for this continuing practice. Of course they have been buying out private practices left and right and every time you turn around some new facility is going up.

What they need are pedophile castration centers working on an outpatient basis starting with such disposed Penn State personnel and alumni. But then again a simple veterinary van would be most cost efficient. Maybe even one with a handicapped sticker (sorry running joke) as these patients may have some issues walking away.


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"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Analog
Posts: 1423
Incept: 2010-12-29

arkansas ozarks
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Quote:
When you get to the check in and registration the day of the procedure they then present you with even more forms that say the patient will now cover any costs not covered by the insurance.


I always annotate that one by inserting "Reasonable and customary"

and line out the 'permission for collectors to call me' phrase.

Drives office snowflakes nuts.

a.

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Never trust a computer with anything important.
Eleua
Posts: 15057
Incept: 2007-07-05
A True American Patriot!
N 47.72/ W 122.55
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Question for the forum:

I get the collusion/opacity/differing-standards argument, and it is wholly valid for all the reasons stated here.

I'm taking a step back and asking what the following have in common, since they are all horribly messed up and, in my opinion, fleecing average people who are just trying to live out their lives.

1) Education
2) Health maintenance
3) Housing finance

EDUCATION: There is no reason it has to cost so much for your basic undergraduate degree. Many are paying $8000/mo to attend college ($64k/8months per year). That's just stupid.

End result? We have too many worthless degrees that are being purchased for a small fortune, which again, is stupid.


Health Maintenance: Just as we have been discussing. It is grossly expensive and corrupt.


HOUSING: The prices of homes are stupid. Why is this? How did this happen? This is where TF got its start. People are paying well out of the historical finance metrics for a home, but they have little to no choice, especially for new entrants.


IMHO, each example has the gooberment trying to "democratize" the particular industry, because dontcha know, it's not fair that the poor don't have the same education, health, and access to housing finance as the rich.

The .gov sees an "unfairness" in the market distribution. The rich kids go to college; the rich get good medicine, and the rich get to finance their large homes. The poor get the scraps.

The .gov tries to bring a semblance of parity to the problem by subsidizing the poor, but failed ECON 101 where any C- student realizes that it is MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO REDUCE THE COST OF ANYTHING BY THROWING MONEY AT THE DEMAND SIDE OF THE EQUATION!!!!

More money chasing goods = higher price pressure.

So, they get frustrated and subsidize even more. Eventually, they run out of their own political ability to directly subsidize (other people's money through taxation), so they go to the next pot of gold, which is other people's money not appropriated through the taxing process. This is differential pricing at the retail level. Some of it is .gov mandated, some is the inevitable reaction to a retailer in the market faced with .gov regulations.

COLLEGE - if you are poor, you pay X, but if you are middle class or higher (means tested through FAFSA), you pay X+. If you are an illegal or historically disadvantaged ethnic minority, you pay little to nothing. Someone has to make up that cost.

HEALTH: Same concept as above.

HOUSING FINANCE: Feds mandate racial/ethnic parity in lending, regardless of credit worthiness. Lenders (retailers in this space) need to pass off the costs to others, which in this case is back to the .gov through various loan guarantee programs. This eventually blows up, causing bailouts by the taxpayer.

In all of the above, there is the "cost shifting" scheme we all have grown to accept.


If universities had to uniformly charge to cover their costs + profit, many would go under. Certainly the "poor" would have a tough time affording it. However, it would bring down the overall cost and give the "poor" a fighting chance to finance it through scholarships and donations that are not .gov mandated.

If housing financiers had to "eat their own cooking" and hold the paper, rather than sell it off to GSEs or .gov backed bond funds, the interest rate would be higher - much higher, AND HOUSING PRICES WOULD COLLAPSE, providing the same market benefit as collapsing college education. In this example, as in the education example, we would not have the problem of too many degrees/housing units produced, and not have urban sprawl and worthless ethnic/gender studies majors.

I see the same in health maintenance. Force pricing transparency and parity (price is dependent on services rendered, not ability to pay), and the market will go through a painful adjustment to meet the need.


It's long winded, but my hunch is the problems outlined in TF may be the symptom of a more basic problem - the .gov meddling to "democratize" an industry.

If the .gov was out of the housing finance, education, and health maintenance businesses, would the problems that plague those businesses still persist after the market adjusts?

My guess is they would not.

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http://clearcutbainbridge.blogspot.com/?....
"My object in life is to dethrone God and destroy capitalism." - Karl Marx
"Destroy the family, you destroy the country." - Lenin
"Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." - Stalin
Krzelune
Posts: 5737
Incept: 2007-10-08

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When did the word democracy come to mean the same thing as socialism?
Tickerguy
Posts: 149209
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Democracy is two Fox and a sheep having a debate over what to have for dinner. In that it is very much like socialism. America has never been a democracy.

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Winding it down.
Eleua
Posts: 15057
Incept: 2007-07-05
A True American Patriot!
N 47.72/ W 122.55
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Quote:
democratize
dəˈmkrəˌtīz/Submit
verb
introduce a democratic system or democratic principles to.
"public institutions need to be democratized"
make (something) accessible to everyone.
"mass production has not democratized fashion"


I'm using the word in the second sense.

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http://clearcutbainbridge.blogspot.com/?....
"My object in life is to dethrone God and destroy capitalism." - Karl Marx
"Destroy the family, you destroy the country." - Lenin
"Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." - Stalin
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