SEVERE Idiocy In America
The Market Ticker - Commentary on The Capital Markets
2017-07-13 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Social Issues , 193 references Ignore this thread
SEVERE Idiocy In America
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No, not the sort of drugs you think of as "recreational" pharmaceuticals either.

Worse.

In a recent review paper, we found that people are using performance-enhancing drugs increasingly for common tasks, ranging from sitting examinations to giving presentations and conducting important negotiations. These “cognitive enhancers” – such as antidepressants, beta blockers (used to treat heart conditions or anxiety) or “smart drugs” – can boost energy and mood, helping us to perform better with less sleep. But is it safe for healthy individuals to take such drugs? And is it right?

Is it safe? No.

Hell, Ritalin isn't safe for kids with so-called ADHD!  That's an amphetamine derivative, is likely to be extremely addictive (as are all drugs in that class) and what's worse amphetamines are known to produce permanent changes in brain chemistry.

In other words even if you quit using them the "impact" remains -- and not for the better.

In my own laboratory, we have assessed the effects of both modafinil and methylphenidate. We saw improvements in a wide variety of cognitive functions, including sustained attention or concentration, memory, planning and problem solving. In addition, modafinil enhanced task-related pleasure or motivation.

Well duh.

I can use cocaine to stay awake for very long periods of time too, making possible doing such insane things as driving across the country non-stop.  But that doesn't make doing so, leaving legal issues aside, either wise or safe.  It is neither.

The rather milquetoast look at this issue in the article referenced is alarming.

That people take performance-enhancing drugs is not a surprise.  But there's a very good reason steroids, for example, are banned in professional and any reputable amateur sport: They're dangerous and produce long-lasting and severe negative effects.

There are the "Libertarians" among us who will argue my body, my choice in this regard.  But is it really your choice?  See, this is the why when it comes to banning such substances in sports contests: If you take them then everyone else has to as well or they lose.

There goes the so-called "choice."

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Snowman
Posts: 1929
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Just what we need, air traffic controllers on Ritalin....

Comment from the original article.
David Clarke
Professor of Pharmacology (retired); Distinguished Scientist (Roche)
The article should point out that modafinil and methylphenidate (Ritalin) may increase anxiety, especially in anxious people. It is paradoxical that methylphenidate, used to treat hyperactivity, can cause anxiety in normal people. On the contrary, propranolol, is anti-anxiety, blocking the stress hormone, adrenaline, and the neurotransmitter for flight or fight, noradrenaline.

Mangymutt
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Vancouver WA
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What bothers me the most about any "mood" or "performance" enhancing drugs is the wide spread use of them on our children.

We are forced by law to send our children to school (Up to {I believe}the 9th grade here in WA state)where they are forced to learn not from experiences, but from a book.

In many cases P.E. has been limited and so has recess.

Little Jan and Jon are required to sit behind their desks and behave, how many of us adults could sit still day after day, hour after hour, under those circumstances.

The schools have programs where they label our children, Hyperactive, ADHD, non-social. And all too many parents are happy to know their child now has a label, because THAT explains why they are causing problems.

The school then provides an answer. Adral, Ritalin and a host of other man made drugs.

Yea a dirivative of the same drugs German soldiers took during WWII. And the parents are OK with this!

How much of our countries meth problem is manifested on to the young minds and bodies of our children, through the schools.

Just say NO!!! To drugs....Unless of course we give them to you and when you grow up and we take them away, you should just stop taking them.
Vernonb
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Propranolol.....the nightmare drug. Like most drugs they affect more than one receptor site on the body. In my case the drug induced nightmares. Imagine watching people being hacked up and you are powerless to stop it.

Hard to sleep with dreams like that. When I mentioned these dreams to my doctor 20 yrs ago he took me off it immediately. It was a common side effect.

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"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Hstella
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Colorado
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Coffee is my drug of choice. Good coffee should be perfectly drinkable black (no carbs). I drink it before a hard workout to "improve performance".
Superdude
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You know in Chicago, the worst seat at Soldier field to see Da Bears is $110 + fees + $50 parking. For that Price I WANT to see the players on Roids. I want to see them tearing off arms, running a supersonic speeds into each other and smashing into each other. It better be better than a 10 dollar movie and done live. Just saying....
Debtisbadmmkay
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Louisville, KY
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I know fit, good looking guys in their 20s that pop these ADHD drugs before going out to clubs and picking up girls. Then they pop a Viagra when they get one back to their place. Its really a sad state.
Misterrc
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New Hampshire
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I consider myself one with a special perspective on this issue as I see the world from the other side trying to get back to normalcy. In the 90's I was a shy kid in high school and the 'experts' decided they could 'fix' me. Fast forward to now and I've been through Paxil, Xanax, lexapro, Ativan, and currently Effexor and Klonopin. The drugs didn't fix anything, but I'm pretty certain they've done damage. I would give anything to go back to 14 and refuse to ever start these things. Sometimes there might be a short term effect, but it never lasts and the solution always seems to be more and different drugs. Eventually I got fed up with it all and that's when I found out that you can't ever stop taking these drugs, even with a doctor controlled taper, without going through he'll far worse than ever experienced before. Doctors will tell you that's it the imbalance resurfacing but I consider myself intelligent enough to see through this. All I know is I continue to get worse and the only thing changing besides my age is the dose and types of medications being prescribed. And the funny part, if you look at the side effects of these medications you find they are the same issues the medications that they are supposed to treat. Going into full scale, crippling panic attacks for no reason at random times; attacks I never had 15 years ago; is no way to live. And if I came off the meds there is no guide or hint as to how long the hell will last. Weeks? Months? Years? Forever? Nobody knows. This is why I always tell folks to do everything in their power to not let themselves or their loved ones wind up like me. If Doc wants to give you some pills of these classes to pop, run away, far and fast, never look back. It's not worth it. As for myself, against doctor's orders I've decided, for better or worse i'm getting off these meds. Too many nameless companies are treating my misery as a blank check and I'm ending it even if I have to suffer years of physical illness to do it. It's very slow as even the taper plans doctors consider very conservative are too fast. So it's 2% reduction per week until I can't stand it and hold for an additional week or two until my brain can adjust. Down about 33% on the Effexor and about 17% on the Klonopin over the last 25 weeks. The final goal is a 100% reduction on all medications and freedom from these poisons. But take my word on it, don't even start. You'll someday wind up regretting it.
Dennisglover
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Huntsville, AL
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@Misterrc -- Look, dood, I've taken Propranolol for "benign intention tremor" for about 22 years now, and it might be helping. I also took Alprazolam (Xanax), a benzodiazepine for more than 20 years to treat what might have been illusory panic attacks. (Yep, a tractor-trailer rig passing me on the left while I saw another coming up from the right used to freak me totally out. But I've not had a "panic attack", that forced me to seek the breakdown lane, pull in, drink a couple of liters of water and smoke 3-4 cigarettes before I could put the car back on the road... Hasn't happened real lately.)

Last Summer I told my PCP, internist, whatever he is, that I wanted to get away from the Xanax, and we put together a plan. By mid-October I had taken my last 500 mcg dose, and the rest got flushed.

Now, today, I told my PCP, internist, or whatever he is, that I cannot imagine going back to work Monday (first work day since my Family and Medical Leave Act protection expires tomorrow, Friday). And he said that he could not approve shifting insurance from "Short Term Disability" to "Long Term Disability", that it would require a PSYCHIATRIST (you know, an 'MD' who looks at patients' minds and decides where to go?) to do that for me...

Well, psychiatrists are MDs, for sure and certain. They prescribe (require) LOTS of medication, for sure and for certain. I'm not thinking that I'm looking at the list of 12 psychiatrists his office gave me. I'm thinking that I'm talking to my Christian Psychologist as soon as possible, and deciding if this thing is worth following, or not.

I will say this: My mind is my own. I'm not f**kin' with extreme and unknown medications to be able to "deal". My hopefully soon-to-be-former-wife is playing games, but I talked with my lawyer today, and I'm thinking he has that pretty much under control. So, if the weather permits tomorrow, I'm taking guns to my little range, and I'm going to waste a whole lot of ammunition shooting at targets.

Any ideas, peeps? I've got some, but sometimes they're not so great...

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TANSTAAFL
Mangymutt
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Misterrc - I am sorry your parents where not strong enuff to keep you off the drugs and out of the system.

Your experience speaks volumes to what I was trying to say in my above post.

When you were a child you needed to figure out who you were and how you fit into
this life, on your own without being zombified.

Your behavior may have caused some people to dislike you (Especially teachers who think they need complete control in their classrooms) but given the chance to become who you needed to be, you would have found acceptance among those who are your peers.

Maybe you would still have random panic attacks, but you would have learned to deal with them in a way that suits you, instead of relying on a man made drug that makes them worse.

The fact that the school system put you on hard core drugs to make it easier to deal with you is a sin against children and sadly your parents were willing participants.

I truly hope you are able to over come these things and find solace in being who you need to be
Dennisglover
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And, at @Misterrc, I echo @Mangymutt's sentiments here.

YOU are in control of your life. All right, then...TAKE CONTROL!

Not only that, by damn, KEEP IT!

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TANSTAAFL
Supertruckertom
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Good luck with the divorce Dennis.
My parting of ways from the Cajun saved me lots of time with a shrink and prescription expenses.

Ever seen the movie Water Boy with Adam Sandler?
The Ex started out as a hot POA like Faruza Balk who played the main character's girlfriend.

After 12 years she had turned into Water Boy's Mama played by Cathy Bates and she was just as crazy as the character.
She still is.

Ever wanting to be the victim, she is the poster woman for Munchausen Syndrome or Munchausen by Proxy.
Rather than making my son ill by putting poison in his body directly, she messed up his head and then had Shrinks prescribe the poison for her to give him.

He developed Type 1 Diabetes a year ago. It was diagnosed because he dropped nearly 100 pounds in weight without a diet change. The psychological meds blew him up to about 330 pounds at 6'4" tall. He now weighs about 220.
He still has to get blood work done monthly to check for potential liver damage. His vision has gone to Hell.

I truly hate the beast.
My daughter despises her as well.

My hope is that soon my son will free himself from her influence but she has him pigeonholed as Autistic with Schizophrenia.

Karma has a way though.
A couple of months ago she broke a handrail in their apartment and her 400 pounds of blubber bounced all the way to the bottom of the stairs.

My daughter and I think that she really does have some frontal lobe syndrome going on now.
Cry Wolf one too many times and you will get bitten when you least expect it.
My son is now in a caretaker situation.
He shouldn't feel that way.
She brought it upon herself.


I am certain that many more children are victims of crazy parents.


I have spent thousands of dollars on lawyers over the years.
Now he is 21 and I deal with him directly as an adult.
Lots of lost time to make up for.
We both went to visit my 71 year old Father in Rabun County last weekend and will make it a monthly trip.

Be strong and change your situation before going to medication.
Cut loose evil influencers in your life.

Enjoy your remaining Free Time,

Tom

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Preparing to go Hunting.
Misterrc
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New Hampshire
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@Dennisglover - I was only trying to relate my experiences and pass along a warning. Everyone is different and for some, perhaps these medications do serve a purpose. However, when I was a kid I didn't have panic attacks, I was merely shy, quiet, and uncomfortable around crowds of my peers and unknown individuals. So I was sent to a psych and BAM!, social anxiety disorder for which I was started down the road of prescription drugs that had all these new emerging 'off label' uses. The panic attacks didn't emerge until 10 years later. I would give anything just to go back to being shy and uncomfortable, I was still able to function.

The panic attacks I get now can shut me down for days at a time involving fainting spells, GI distress, nausea, cold sweats, and a complete inability to function that has ruined family vacations and impacted work. Can I prove the years of these medications have left me in this state? No, but I have very strong suspicions.

The primary drugs were designed to treat major depression, which I didn't and don't have. The secondaries are more geared towards controlling seizures, which I also don't and didn't have. But 'off label', they are being prescribed to treat anything the Docs can think of a reason to prescribe them for. I once tried asking if there were any effects caused by long term (decades) use of these meds and my phych got awful quiet because in truth they don't really know. That was my 'congratulations! You are our test dummy!' moment.

And in effectiveness in treat social anxiety 'disorder'? I found that the drugs didn't so much make me less shy per se, but what they seemed really good at was suppressing important things like empathy and caring about repercussions. If you don't care about others or consequences you may appear to not be shy or uncomfortable in crowds but the truth is a lot darker. What happens if something or someone makes you upset and your ability to empathize and care about the consequences of your actions has been shut down? Google 'Lexapro Rage' for a quick primer, but the combo is not good. Before I understood what was going on the insanely overblown raging over silly things was crazy. And once I did understand what was happening it took everything I had left in the logic and reasoning side of my mind to control it and it was HARD, and I was a twenty something adult by then. As a kid, before I had developed that level of perspective the explosions over stupid things were epic and destructive. I can understand how some others would be able to kill themselves and/or others in this state. Again, can't prove it, but having been through it I have drawn my own conclusions.

But, having a family of my own now I have logically decided that my wife and children do NOT deserve to ever meet this 'monster' I can become which gives me the strength to keep it in check or at the very least, suppressed until I am alone and nowhere near anyone else. It also feeds my will to break free of the meds. I just pray that there is no permanent damage from 20+ years of use and that I will heal. But I won't know til I get there.

So, i'll end this novel with a clarified warning. Don't let yourself or loved ones start down this road when prescribed for 'off label' treatments, especially in kids. The misery that I've found that follows isn't worth it and quitting is pure Hell.
Snowman
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@dennisglover@misterrc I'm not a MD, but seen these issues up close. Have you tried pharmacogenomic testing? Ie drug-gene testing. Everyone metabolizes and responds to drugs in different ways (indeed all chemicals), especially in conjunction with each other. Mayo clinic is pretty good at it.
Vernonb
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Superdude makes an interesting point. If we had drug free sports leagues vs drug enhanced sports leagues which one would people actually play to see?

Something to think about. Is every sport to be a derivative of hockey?

Shortest lived "athletes" in the world I will assure.

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"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Dennisglover
Posts: 686
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Everyone, here's what I decided later: I've been seeing a Christian psychologist for therapy since early May, and will talk this thing over with him at my next session on Monday. Here's the deal, see--I trust him and don't trust some of these other people.

This same internist prescribed Lexapro a few years ago, telling me that I needed an ANTI-depressant to offset the effects of the CNS DEPRESSANT I was taking daily at the time (Xanax). So in my irrational trust of physicians I filled the scrip, and took it for a day or two. Let's see: Couldn't sleep at night. Couldn't stay awake at work. Irritable, angry. Road rage or something like it on the highway. I quit after two doses.

An old friend from high school, a fellow I rarely see, has been a paraplegic since about 1972. At our reunion in 1994 he told me that he took one of these "wonder drugs" for a while, but when he realized that his restriction to a wheelchair had never caused him to be suicidal, but a few doses of Prozac had been followed by intense thoughts of killing himself, he fired that doctor and quit taking the stuff.

Sometimes the writing is just right there on the wall.

Okay, it's gonna be all right. Thanks, everyone!

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TANSTAAFL
Dcsleeper
Posts: 373
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Northern VA
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Coffee in the morning, liquor at night.
Flaps10
Posts: 6662
Incept: 2008-10-17

seattle
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College kids sell pills from their stash for real money.

"regular" kids rail this stuff before an all nighter


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Hit the gas Thelma
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