Comey Memo? Or Seth Rich? Or Classified Data?
The Market Ticker - Commentary on The Capital Markets
2017-05-17 11:05 by Karl Denninger
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Comey Memo? Or Seth Rich? Or Classified Data?
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Let's take three at once here.

First, the alleged Comey Memo.  If that memo is real -- that is, if there really was a conversation between Trump and Comey in which he tried to talk Comey out of investigating Mike Flynn then there's real trouble brewing.  What's worse is that from reports thus far it appears the memo does exist.

That's impeachable.  It might, depending on the context, also be Obstruction of Justice, but I strongly doubt that it's able to be prosecuted without some sort of attendant threat.

It's not criminal to say that someone's a "good guy" and ask if an investigation can be concluded.  It becomes criminal if there's a threat communicated that is linked to the statement and no, the fact that you can fire someone doesn't make the statement into a threat.

So this is probably not an actual crime, but remember that impeachment is a political remedy, not a criminal one and therefore whether someone can be indicted is neither required or necessary.  It just happens to be a bar that, if you can jump it, makes impeachment far more likely to succeed.

Politically it would be suicidal for the Republican Party to support an impeachment over this issue and thus they won't, provided it stands alone and nothing else of substance appears that is linked to it.

Where the calculus changes immediately and irrevocably is if there is more; that is, if there is actual proof of some sort of collusion with the Russians within the Trump Administration or transition team and this memo proves up.  There is a monstrously-deranged set of views that this "must" exist somewhere, somehow among the Democrat party and although being unable to find and prove it up they cling to it like the hard-right clings to their bibles and anti-gay rhetoric.  Both sorts of irrational garbage are equally destructive, by the way and this one is literally tearing the Democrat Party apart.

I will note that there is no evidence at all for this sort of link as things stand right now and I don't believe it exists either based on the data that is in the public but if it emerges then Trump is burnt toast.

Second, on the so-called classified data allegedly given to the Russians in the meeting in the Oval Office.  So what?

Folks, there are two non-issues here.  First, the President can declare anything, classified or not, sharable with anyone he wishes.  I remind you that Obama did this repeatedly with various foreign state actors in the context of terrorism.  Second, in that context I'd hope the President would do so if it advances the cause of catching or killing those jackasses.  Nobody said a single word when Obama did the same thing, and the reason for it simple: It not only isn't illegal or improper it's expected and normal.  If you're deranged enough to go after Trump on this then you might want to consider consuming a whole bottle of Drano, as doing so would measurably improve the collective IQ of the country.

Finally, Seth Rich.  Over the last few days there have emerged claims that Seth Rich just prior to being murdered did send tens of thousands of emails to Wikileaks.  I remind you that when Seth was alleged shot in a "robbery" not one thing was taken from him.  I said at the time that this alleged "robbery story" stunk to high Hell and it now appears evidence is emerging that he in fact was the leaker to Wikileaks on the DNC materials and thus the odds are extremely high, given the proximity of his murder to him doing so, that he was murdered because someone found out that he had done so.  This is very plausible and it required only that someone was watching him at the time.

If Seth Rich was murdered for leaking DNC materials to Wikileaks then he was politically assassinated and that points straight back at the Clintons, Obama and the DNC generally.

That, my friends, should be the story here.

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User Info Comey Memo? Or Seth Rich? Or Classified Data? in forum [Market-Ticker]
Lunatic_fringe
Posts: 9366
Incept: 2007-06-26

Location: Terra Firma
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Seth Rich is the story... Wa Post and NY Times released these BS stories about memos and classified leaks to redirect focus. This **** is so transparent only liberals aren't seeing it.
Tickerguy
Posts: 148666
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Well, to be fair the memo is potentially explosive -- IF it's real and IF there's a threat linked to it. It appears the first is "yes" but the second is still an open question.

The "leaks" nonsense, however, is crap on all levels.

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Winding it down.
Snowman
Posts: 1904
Incept: 2009-03-09

avoiding yellow snow
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seems like the gloves are off. The problem with the D side going full bore in trying to topple the president, is that the other side will do the same, either now or later. Our republic is over if it's a death match between the swamp monsters. Either Trump finds a way to go for the kill, or he's done and the next person in the WH suffers the same fate. I suspect the markets won't be very exuberant the longer this goes on. I'm short.
Mannfm11
Posts: 5357
Incept: 2009-02-28

DFW, Tx
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If any of this is impeachable, then no President should have ever made a full term. Evidence is strong that Obama issued a falsified public document in 2012.

Trump isn't owned and that scares the hell out of the DC crime network. If they had real investigations in DC, at least half of Congress, many on Wall Street and a sizable number of medicine related people would go to prison.

The mantra has been to impeach Trump for anything they could make up. The Russian story is very likely a conspiracy between the DNC, the Democratic leadership and a sizable number of corporate fascists in the press. There has been no outside investigation of the DNC server other than by a controlled source. I trust Assange more than any Democrat. Remember, they cheated to get one of the all time political criminals on the top of the ticket. They conspired with the press to push bad news on opponents and to cheat on the debates.

Assange offered a reward on the Seth Rich case. Why? He damn sure doesn't appear to be a card carrying Reoublucan. Instead, he looks more like a 1970's anti war liberal.

They are hitting Americans with the big lie. Trump is being killed with a war of attrition. The swamp needs a guy they own in the White House, not someone who didn't take their money. The goal is to destroy the US and merge it into a world controlled system.

There are probably no more than 50 men and women in Congress that shouldn't be in prison for racketeering. The fact that 100% of the Democratic Party would support Obamacare and the Republicans wouldn't and then vote for a near replica is evidence enough. We are being ripped off at least $1 trillion in that matter alone.

The Federal Government spends $30k per private job in the country. Half the jobs in the country pay less than $30k a year. How long is this model going to work? When you throw in state and local taxes, the bottom half of the working population does not make enough money to pay their share, much less live. I suspect the next 25% also fall if that category. We are seeing the last grab of American assets before the whole thing goes down the tubes. They can't have someone interrupt their salvage party.

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Zappafan
Posts: 2913
Incept: 2007-11-30

Atlanta
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Every news cycle seems to take us further away from a functional democracy.

If I'm Putin and/or Xi, I'm seriously thinking about "bustin' a move" to finish off this rotting empire.

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Ich bin der Tankendau!
Dasman
Posts: 69
Incept: 2010-06-27

Lawrence, KS
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Truly bizaare stuff going on...

Trump needs to find a reliable nasty mo-fo Chief of Staff to take Preibus' place, and let West Wing staff know that leaks will be followed by firing, prosecution where applicable, and explanations that would torpedo leakers professional chances in DC for life.

Trump also needs to wake up, and realize he NEEDS someone that will bust his balls because of his ego impulse control issues, and learn a little delayed gratification for his mouth and brain connection.

Now it appears Fox and other right media, got "Rick Rolled" on the Seth Rich story, and it's dropped like a rock in the news cycle, and the P.I., Wheeler, has completely changed his tune. Folks might have been threatened... or wheeler was trying profit reputation or something out of the story. Who knows...

The Seth Rich murder IS really suspicious... and even if it's been squelched right now, those saying he WASN'T murdered for leaking to the DNC are just trotting out a logical fallacy.

We don't know... either way. Maybe we can't prove it was "wet work"... but if you go by the facts we do know, it is very very suspicious... and Assange has gone all the way to the edge of saying he was their source, without outing Rich.

Generally, there are probably less "conspiracies" than most rabid conspiracy buffs think there are... and far far more than average Americans think there are.

So far as corruption, rot and general anti-American shenanigans... Americans have NO IDEA how absolutely rotten things are on the inside. I seriously doubt you can get significant inside power, unless you HAVE skeletons in the closet, that give you entry into the game... and a control file to use against you if you step out of line. "Good guys" in DC are not given political power easily... they are too much of a threat to the (rotten) system.

In my own worldview... there is a "Higher Power"... and I am grateful for that... things are nuckin futs right now!
Supertruckertom
Posts: 1224
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USA
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Zappa is on to something.

Markets Crash.

XI takes Taiwan.
Then goes on to colonize Africa in the next Deacde.

Iran does an above ground nuclear test just for kicks.

Russia dumps every dirty secret they have on every politician in the USA.
Cyber Attack on the power and banking infrastructures.

Kim moves on South Korea.

Muslim hordes run amok in Europe.
Afrikaners are genocided in South Africa.

What else can I think of that would take advantage of this moment of weakness?



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Preparing to go Hunting.
Zappafan
Posts: 2913
Incept: 2007-11-30

Atlanta
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On the "classified data" brouhaha: it's always good to step back and ask "why."

Whatever Trump said to Lavrov or his fellow "Rooskies" must have touched a nerve.

Some good theories in this link:

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/05/mor....

TL;DR version - Trump may have unmasked some real dirty business involving Israel and ISIS.

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Ich bin der Tankendau!
Eluria
Posts: 1
Incept: 2012-07-05

Washington, DC
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Karl, I agree with your health posts and some other economic posts, but am not right wing.

"It's not criminal to say that someone's a "good guy" and ask if an investigation can be concluded. It becomes criminal if there's a threat communicated that is linked to the statement and no, the fact that you can fire someone doesn't make the statement into a threat."

Comey was soon fired. Not a threat? That subsequent event makes this possibility a hard sell.

******
"Second, on the so-called classified data allegedly given to the Russians in the meeting in the Oval Office. So what?"

Let's see if we receive further cooperation at current levels from the country whose information was allegedly compromised, and from our other allies. Then we will see "what."
Tickerguy
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Quote:
Comey was soon fired. Not a threat? That subsequent event makes this possibility a hard sell.

Nope. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You have to prove the threat; there has to be, at a criminal level, the "or else" for it to be actionable.

That's the essence of obstruction; you are taking an action to obstruct an official act. Yes, I understand that people may BELIEVE there was obstruction but "belief" is not a crime; you need to PROVE it.

None of this matters for IMPEACHMENT since impeachment is a political process, not a criminal one, but it does for INDICTMENT.
Quote:
Then we will see "what."

Utterly irrelevant.

Again, the President has plenary authority to share classified data with whoever he believes he needs to in order to further his job. That is unreviewable and again, the only remedy if someone is sufficiently hacked off about it is a political process -- again, impeachment.

I remind you (again) that Obama did this repeatedly and often with various parties on the world stage for the same general reason -- terrorism interdiction -- and not one word was said about it.

That Russia has a terrorist problem of their own, and that it's linked to Daesh, is well-known and public. For Trump to share information that would assist them and us both in combating that is not only normal and expected the outrage would be if he DIDN'T.

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Winding it down.
Gauntlet33
Posts: 27
Incept: 2009-03-30

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I read a comment here that Trump isn't "owned" and that makes the established powers here nervous. Perhaps not owned in the traditional way, but I think you're wrong...he is owned. What does an egomaniac with an alleged billions of dollars of wealth want?...more money. So Trump will do and is doing what it takes to line his pockets with more and more money through whatever corrupt ways he can get away with. Like father like son.

Also, but me thinks that he is good at putting his foot in his mouth and will fall through impeachment at some point. [Disclaimer: I slightly preferred him over Hillary but didn't vote for either out of disgust for both.]
Mdkeefe
Posts: 15
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Temple GA
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Maybe Trump could hire Podesta to handle the stopping leaks. Just don't let him have an email account!
Travanx
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Near Downtown Los Angeleez, Killafornia
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Glad Seth Rich is being mentioned on here, in relation to the Trump stuff. I still remember the day that happened, and had no real idea of who he was at the time. But the original news stories were extremely fishy sounding.

Can anyone explain how a Comey memo is verified? Is this a note on a notepad or something entered into the computer? Who says these memos are true?

When did Russia becomes such villains to the US?

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Ow my balls!
Tickerguy
Posts: 148666
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Well you can't prove he said what's recorded, but if it was doing on a DOJ/FBI computer system it would be hard to fake as there's a timestamp and CAC associated with it.... so yeah, it either exists and he wrote it at the time or it doesn't.

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Winding it down.
Jfms99
Posts: 184
Incept: 2009-10-06

Msumelle, Ar
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I disagree that Trump can depend on the Republican Party to protect him in an Impeachment Proceeding. There were way too many Never Trumper's and they would still do anything to get rid of him regardless of what the outcome might be.

We already have one Republican on record in the last couple of days ready to buy into Impeachment. Once enough momentum for this starts, this country will be put through the wringer. The Senate ,and the forces against Trump, will win out if it goes that far. Trump will not survive.

The sad thing is none of these people are going to think about the real long term consequences of these actions. The corruption is so total that these criminals will go to any lengths to keep their power and the status quo and that means they get rid of Trump.

On a larger scale the question is what will this do to the country. We are already divided, this will guarantee a Schism that will never be healed. I can't even imagine exactly what will happen if Trump is removed by the Elite Politicians. It just might be a powder keg and if that fuse is lit who knows.

Short term the Republican Party that was riding high after the election will be finished, but I don't think the Democrats will necessarily benefit either.

The hate and vicious actions of the Left and piling on will not play well in Flyover Country and it will be interesting to see the repercussions of it all. My opinion is that if this plays out it will be a unmitigated disaster.
Orionrising
Posts: 18
Incept: 2017-01-26

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hmm special prosecutor.... this could go many ways.

An honest investigation would start with a subpoena for the 'hacked by Russians' DNC server....
Crossthread
Posts: 5990
Incept: 2007-09-04

Wilmington, NC
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I'll take the other-Side of this "bet"..
Trump IS NOT going to be "Impeached"..
Hopefully,, Though,, some Swamp Creatures will end-up going to Prison..

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Cognitive Co-Dependency is when a normal rational person, internalizes irrational illogical presentations, and somehow reconciles them to fit their scripted indoctrination of logical analysis.
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Bjonsson
Posts: 939
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Ventura County, California
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I don't view this as being a partisan issue at all. I think this country is run by a sort of white collar mob, similar to the Camorra in Italy. There are a constellation of patron interests (health care industry, big pharma, big agriculture, big oil, big pentagon, public labor unions, think tanks, etc) who sponsor political operatives that use government power to skim government revenues to the patrons. Democrats and Republicans aren't opposites, rather they are like two feuding "families" within the broader mob that, despite their quibbles, have a vested interest in maintaining the broader rackets.

The corporate media is owned by the patrons as well. Sure, some media may skew towards the "democrat family", and some skew towards the "republican family", but all of these outlets have a vested interest in maintaining a social narrative that gives cover and credence to the rackets in the eyes of the people.

Trump's an outsider. Yes he's wealthy and had a wealthy dad, and may have even been a minor patron in his years, but he was not "raised" up the chain within the rackets and the powers that be don't trust him in that office.

Don't get me wrong, after the health care proposal, I doubt Trump has any fire under him to bust up any of these rackets anymore. Seems to me that the dime has dropped with him and his policy has taken a turn indicating that he's willing to play ball with them. However, I'm thinking the insiders just don't trust him, and that some act of mismanagement, a burst of retribution, or a loose Tweet might expose something to Americans that will wreck the carefully curated narrative that they use to keep Americans complacent to the rackets.

This whole Russia thing seems like a complete canard to me. A textbook gaslighting operation. Whatever happens due to Trump that breaks the conventional network, find a way to blame Russia. Russia "hacked the election". Voters were swayed by "fake news", that was perpetrated by Russia. Trump's staff is riddled with Russian operatives. Even when Trump meets the Russian ambassador to the US (something quite normal for a President to do), the media screams that this ambassador is a known Russian spy, and recruiter of spies.

If the Russian ambassador to the US is a known Russian spy, then why the hell did Obama accept his diplomatic credentials in the first place? If the USG knows someone is a spy, they normally would expel them.

Finally the media finds a Russia issue that might have some credibility, Flynn's "potentially compromising" relations with Russia. I'd still like to hear more about this to see if there's any real meat to this, but the media is now using this as a sort of validation that ALL of the prior gaslighting is all true. Just heard someone on CNN say "looks like all roads head to Russia!"

They want Trump out. The special prosecutor gives them an open door to do a fishing expedition to find fodder to ruin him.

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"If you don't have borders... if you don't have laws... you don't have a country."
Flyanddive
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Detroit
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Flynn was acting as a lobbyist for Turkey, somehow that turned into Russia, because they framed Russia for the hacks.

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"I've seen people go into real poverty trying to pretend to be rich."
Vitchilo
Posts: 6135
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Quote:
I will note that there is no evidence at all for this sort of link as things stand right now and I don't believe it exists either based on the data that is in the public


Keyword here is PUBLIC INFO... And let me tell ya, all the info on Trump-Russia is classified since it uses lots of US spies in Russia and eastern Europe.

It will all come down soon enough.

Anyway, the republicans dont care, they are going full steam ahead... and they are trying to take the pension funds.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-17....
Quote:
The new proposal would treat all 401(k) and traditional IRA contributions as if they were Roth IRA contributions. Youd lose the tax exclusion of those contributions, but your future 401(k)/IRA earnings and appreciation would be tax-free.

Quote:
Right now, any income and gains your 401(k) and/or traditional IRA generate dont get taxed until you make withdrawals.

But a new proposal would impose a 15% tax on those annual gains

Quote:
Like the retirement contribution exclusion, the proposals also do away with the state and local income tax deductions.

If they pass this, the little guy is gonna be ****ed over once more.

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We hang the petty thieves and promote the great ones to office.
Themortgagedude
Posts: 10263
Incept: 2007-12-17

saint louis
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If Trump is impeached the Republican Party dies. I hope Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell know this.

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I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Nickdanger
Posts: 621
Incept: 2011-06-12

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tmd wrote..
If Trump is impeached the Republican Party dies. I hope Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell know this.

I hope it goes down in a ball of flames, taking all those scumbag traitors with it, especially Ryan and McConnell. Add McCain in also...

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Grammar: the difference between knowing your **** and knowing you're ****.
Eleua
Posts: 15038
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N 47.72/ W 122.55
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The Seth Rich thingy is radioactive and everyone knows it. The Clintons (and if you believe some sources, even Obama) are routinely linked to fortuitous deaths of political opponents. Morons like to say that people with the amount of contacts as the Clintons are statistically predisposed to having a lot of "friends" or "enemies" die, since they have lots of "friends" and "enemies."

Horse****.

Ask yourself why there is NEVER any similar pattern or linkage with Nixon, Reagan, Carter, the Bush family, Romney, etc.

Why is that the Clintons seem to be several sigma outside the norm, and Obama is likewise tainted? At some point, the circumstantial evidence becomes compelling.

Now, if Seth Rich leaked to Wikileaks, and he turns up dead under suspicious circumstances, that is worth investigating. The MSM isn't going to do **** about it because they KNOW it will blow their candidates away.

Instead, they are doing the opposite. Seth Rich is a ticking bomb, so they are (in my opinion) setting a deliberate backfire to keep everyone off the real story. The string of opportune deaths in the 1990s, directly linked to the Clinton Administration intentionally funneling MIRV technology to the Chinese government through LORAL Aerospace and Ron Brown's Dept of Commerce, along with all the Chinese cash donors at the White House tea parties, along with the Lincoln Bedroom being rented out on hourly rates. The Washington Times detailed everything and nobody gave a ****.

Why? Two reasons: The stock market and Monica.

Monica was a deliberate backfire that was set to consume all the emotional outrage at the Clintons. We wanted to talk about cigars, blowjobs, and blue dresses than Ron Brown, LORAL, and W-88 MIRV technology.

One was a crime, the other was an embarrassment (other than suborning perjury, and obstruction of justice).

Same **** happening here with Seth Rich. The Dems self-immolated and they don't want to talk about Seth Rich, since it leads to murder. If Rich is determined to be a murder, then all those on the Clinton Kill List get investigated for the same. That list is long and distinguished.

That's why they didn't let the FBI investigate their servers, but had CROWDSTRIKE do it. They are using this to keep the Russia story in the news, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT SETH RICH!!!!

These people are evil. Killing to maintain power goes back millennia. Nothing has changed. The mindset that allows you to engage in pedophilia and related blackmail is the same that allows you to engage in murder.

The Dems have been in bed with the Russians since FDR, and that is a FACT. When the Russians say the Dems have gone too far, you know the Dems have reached terminal velocity.

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http://clearcutbainbridge.blogspot.com/?....
"My object in life is to dethrone God and destroy capitalism." - Karl Marx
"Destroy the family, you destroy the country." - Lenin
"Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." - Stalin
Steph4liberty
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Raleigh, NC
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@Eleua, if I could like that post more than once, I would. Spot on.

smiley

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"Man will never be free until the last Banker is strangled with the entrails of the last Politician" - unknown

"This isn't a market anymore, it's a computer game." - Drench
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