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Radiosity
Posts: 89
Incept: 2009-03-05

Sunny UK
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Karl - Yep, we're screwed pretty much everywhere, but I'd rather enjoy what time I have left in a country where I don't feel like the one nail still standing and waiting to be hammered down :)

I believe there are still one or two where you can carry in some form, but none of the major countries, especially not pussified places like Germany or Sweden.

I've occasionally wondered how many more attacks on European soil need to happen before people start giving a ****. With how many we've seen in the last couple of years... I've given up asking. It'll take full-scale invasion and millions dead before anything happens, and at that point it's far too late.

And when you have idiots crying RACISM! over absolutely everything, it's impossible to even have a rational discussion on the subject.
Tickerguy
Posts: 147962
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Yep.....

That's the problem with becoming an exPat. It sounds good, right up until things really go to **** and a couple things become apparent:

1. You're the ugly Gringo and thus are an obvious -- and obnoxiously so -- target for any sort of violence aimed at non-natives.

2. You're rich by local standards, whether you think you are or not. This makes you a tax source, and since you can't VOTE, you get no voice on how badly you get raped. The limits of this abuse are literally boundless including expropriation of any asset(s) you have in the country. This, by the way, has been discovered the hard way by more than a few expats in places like Mexico, Panama and similar.

There are a literal handful of people in the world rich enough to evade both of these problems. If you have to ask if you are one of them, you're not. The price of admission to that club starts in the hundreds of millions of dollars, where actual bribery and private security that is protected and sanctioned by the local authorities becomes something you consider as routine an expense as a housekeeper.

PS: In most foreign nations it is utterly prohibited, under penalty of law (often including imprisonment or instant and irrevocable deportation) to engage in any political activity -- so forget about complaining about #2 in particular, because if you much as open your mouth you may find yourself on the next plane out or in a cell with your visa stamped "revoked."

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Winding it down.

Vernonb
Posts: 1728
Incept: 2009-06-03

East of Sheol
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Radiosity said:
Quote:
And when you have idiots crying RACISM! over absolutely everything, it's impossible to even have a rational discussion on the subject.

Therein is revealed the first false supposition. These people do not want to have a discussion. These are Alinsky tactics designed to shut down discussion and intimidate. And like all such tactics they only suppress true cowards. Only one view point is to be heard - theirs!

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"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Spence
Posts: 3145
Incept: 2009-09-10

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Quote:
The healthcare anti-trust issue was raised on Hannity's TV show (8-Feb), so there is a glimmer of hope.


Yeah, I just watched that on DVR. It was congressman Louie Gohmert from TX. He was talking about replacing Obamacare and one if his points was that we need to stop allowing health care companies to violate anti-trust laws and create monopolies. Is he a friend of Karl?
Gauntlet33
Posts: 13
Incept: 2009-03-30

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Quote: "That's the problem with becoming an exPat. It sounds good, right up until things really go to ****"

Yeah, I tossed around the idea of perhaps someday retiring to Argentina (or another country with lower cost of living) but then realized that even if there is no political upheaval, I'd be a big time target for burglary, robbery and murder according to various stories I've heard.
Spence
Posts: 3145
Incept: 2009-09-10

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I googled Gohmert and antitrust and came across this article. Not much else about it online, so not sure if it's legit.

https://www.insurancenewsnet.com/oarticl....

Quote:
WASHINGTON, Jan. 23 -- Rep. Paul Gosar, R-Ariz., has introduced legislation (H.R. 372) to "restore the application of the Federal antitrust laws to the business of health insurance to protect competition and consumers."

The bill was introduced on Jan. 9 and has 14 co-sponsors. Co-sponsors include Reps. Dave Brat, R-Va., Mo Brooks, R-Ala., Scott Desjarlais, R-Tenn., John J. Duncan Jr., R-Tenn., Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, Walter B. Jones, R-N.C., Steve King, R-Iowa, Phil Roe, R-Tenn., Austin Scott, R-Ga., Ted Yoho, R-Fla., A. Drew Ferguson, R-Ga., Robert J. Wittman, R-Va., Brian Babin, R-Texas, and Lamar S. Smith, R-Texas.
Aquapura
Posts: 600
Incept: 2012-04-19

South of Canada
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Quote:
I'd be a big time target for burglary, robbery and murder


You can be a big time target living in the wrong neighborhood in many American cities. Quite sure I could pull off looking/acting more like a local in many old commonweath countries vs. moving into the **** of S. Chicago. Not that I want to expatriate, but I have considered some of the desolates spaces in Canada between Toronto and Vancouver. #1. It's so miserable cold nobody in their right mind would go there and #2. The locals up there have more in common with your average American redneck than the idiots on the coasts.
Tickerguy
Posts: 147962
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-cong....

The bill removes the McCarran-Ferguson law entirely from health insurance firms. However, that law has already been rendered inoperative in the context of attempts to restrain trade or fix prices through differential pricing and exclusive dealing arrangements by case law in 1979 that went to the US Supreme Court!

WHAT GOOD DOES IT TO PASS A LAW THAT NOBODY WILL ****ING ENFORCE WHEN THE LAW IS ALREADY THERE AND ALREADY RULED TO BE IN FORCE?

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Winding it down.
Spence
Posts: 3145
Incept: 2009-09-10

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Damn! The light at the end of the tunnel turned out to be an oncoming train.
Gauntlet33
Posts: 13
Incept: 2009-03-30

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Quote: "You can be a big time target living in the wrong neighborhood in many American cities. Quite sure I could pull off looking/acting more like a local in many old commonweath countries vs. moving into the **** of S. Chicago. Not that I want to expatriate, but I have considered some of the desolates spaces in Canada between Toronto and Vancouver. #1. It's so miserable cold nobody in their right mind would go there and #2. The locals up there have more in common with your average American redneck than the idiots on the coasts."

That's the other issue I realized...friends and family are here (in the US), and so are my other little social comforts of living in a city with real civilization, so permanently going to a lesser developed country means leaving all that behind, which is a deal-breaker. And going to another English-speaking country is probably a lateral move AT BEST!
Jfms99
Posts: 168
Incept: 2009-10-06

Msumelle, Ar
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Article in this mornings Wall Street Journal on OBGYN Doctors who want to keep parts of Obamacare. Goes on to say there are Republicans that want to keep certain parts also. I would say the bottom line is that whatever is done will now be a watered down makeover with bargaining for Drug Prices and Keeping Pre-Exisitng conditions, among other things. There will be no real change at all and the costs will continue to rise.

I think I will stick by my theory that before it is all over we will have a Single-Payor system and all the Horror that implies.
Analog
Posts: 1378
Incept: 2010-12-29

arkansas ozarks
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To my surprise (though i shoulda guessed ) there's a whole industry of lawyers following the subject of healthcare anti-trust.

Here's one of their newsletters i stumbled across

https://www.wsgr.com/publications/PDFSearch/silber0112.pdf

they gave legislators fair warning,

Quote:
In addition, the panel predicted that litigation and/or advocacy in the health care sector will probably increase in both places. The United States is likely to see an increase in private litigation, particularly in hospital collusion cases, and European countries are likely to review increasing numbers of hospital mergers

Rand Paul to the rescue.......

maybe we need to make our presence felt in those circles ?


Quote:
http://apps.americanbar.org/dch/committe....
Our Committee oversees the preparation of numerous health-related publications, organizes programs, and prepares position papers commenting on proposed legislation or agency policy initiatives. We also maintain this website and operate a Listserv that facilitates discussions among individuals interested in health care and pharmaceutical antitrust issues and that allows us to circulate news about recent events. Publications: The Antitrust Health Care Chronicle is our scholarly newsletter that is published monthly. Health Care Antitrust Recent Developments is a bi-monthly update on recent antitrust developments in the health care and pharmaceutical industries. Our Health Care Antitrust Week-In-Review is a weekly update of events. We also regularly contribute content to ABA antitrust publications including the Antitrust Section's seminal treatise Antitrust Law Developments, and prepare numerous book-length publications on topics related to health care and pharmaceuticals.


a.

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Never trust a computer with anything important.
Bigj
Posts: 2
Incept: 2017-02-09

Colorado Springs
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OK - Been lurking on The Ticker for at least 5 years and finally decided to register so I could post. Took the wife to an Urgent Care when she cut her foot recently in order to get stitches (5 stitches for a superficial cut - UC's words, not mine.) Took 30 minutes total. They stated up front they took my sucky Aetna insurance and Aetna promised they'd negotiate for me. I was shocked when they billed $2000 and Aetna negotiated down to $1400 (my deductible is $2000). I was more shocked when a week later another bill came in for $5000! I've checked around and the total cost should have come in around $300. Karl - Thanks for educating me on this crooked business. I've opened a formal protest with Aetna and plan on contacting the Colorado AG and new federal AG Sessions. Assuming I get no where with that, I plan on conducting a one-man boycott in front of this UC. Any other suggestions?
Topgun
Posts: 30
Incept: 2016-09-10

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Quote:
Any other suggestions? - Bigj



...............................................Check # 15

............................................... 2-10-2017

Collusion Urgent Care
Three Hundred & NO/100 Dollars

Memo: PAID IN FULL............................Signed: Bigj
Goforbroke
Posts: 6899
Incept: 2007-11-30
A True American Patriot!
Drain the Swamp!
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Bigj ... on two separate occasions two years ago, I wrote both my state senator and representative, and then filed a complaint with the AG. Ohio Administrative Code 109:4-3.05 deals with deceptive/fraudulent practices.

The first letter was ignored.

The complaint (if you search the AG's Complaints it's #835917) was resolved within 3 or 4 weeks ... the hospital zeroed out my account. But it didn't go beyond that, as Ohio's AG office chooses not to hold medical providers accountable on the deceptive/fraudulent stipulation even they aren't specifically exempt under the statute.


It appears that Colorado's deceptive practices is C.R.S. 6-1-105.

Specifically ...
Quote:
HOSPITAL DISCLOSURES TO CONSUMERS

Art. 20. Hospital Disclosures to Consumers, 6-20-101 to 6-20-202.
and
Quote:


6-1-714. Unfair drug pricing practice - definitions - deceptive trade practice.



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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, and not our Darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson

Goforbroke
Posts: 6899
Incept: 2007-11-30
A True American Patriot!
Drain the Swamp!
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Quote:
6-1-714. Unfair drug pricing practice - definitions - deceptive trade practice.
(1) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:
(a) "Emergency" means a declaration made by the department of public health and environment pursuant to section 25-1.5-101 (1) (aa), C.R.S., after the department has determined that there is a shortage of drugs critical to public safety.
(b) "Unfair drug pricing" means charging a consumer an unconscionable amount for the sale of a drug. Unfair drug pricing occurs if:
(I) The price charged by a wholesaler, distributor, or retailer exceeds by more than ten percent the average price for the drug charged by that wholesaler, distributor, or retailer during the thirty days immediately preceding the declaration of an emergency; and
(II) The increase in the amount charged by a wholesaler, distributor, or retailer is not attributable to cost factors of the retailer, including, but not limited to, replacement costs, taxes, and transportation costs incurred by that wholesaler, distributor, or retailer.
(2) A person engages in a deceptive trade practice when, in the course of such person's business, vocation, or occupation, the person engages in the practice of unfair drug pricing.
Source: L. 2005: Entire section added, p. 372, 2, effective April 22.
Well, that's rather limited.

Quote:
6-20-101. Provider disclosure of average charge.
(1) Each hospital licensed or certified pursuant to section 25-1.5-103 (1) (a), C.R.S., shall disclose to a person seeking care or treatment his or her right to receive notice of the average facility charge for such treatment that is a frequently performed inpatient procedure prior to admission for such procedure; except that care or treatment for an emergency need not be disclosed prior to such emergency care or treatment. When requested, the average charge information shall be made available to the person prior to admission for such procedure.
Doesn't apply to emergencies.

Oh, and the penalties are civil (and light) ...

https://www.stopfraudcolorado.gov/sites/....

Good luck.

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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, and not our Darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson
Cerich
Posts: 929
Incept: 2008-12-17

ga
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BigJ- exactly what I had happen when I needed 5 staples last year.
Bigj
Posts: 2
Incept: 2017-02-09

Colorado Springs
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Goforbroke,

Thank you! I didn't know where to begin. Also found this under 6-01-105 when researching your other references:

(u) Fails to disclose material information concerning goods, services, or property which information was known at the time of an advertisement or sale if such failure to disclose such information was intended to induce the consumer to enter into a transaction; - See more at: http://codes.findlaw.com/co/title-6-cons....

I'll post updates as I fight these crooks.
Tickerguy
Posts: 147962
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Quote:
(u) Fails to disclose material information concerning goods, services, or property which information was known at the time of an advertisement or sale if such failure to disclose such information was intended to induce the consumer to enter into a transaction; - See more at:

Uh, yep.

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Winding it down.

Gable
Posts: 700
Incept: 2009-07-04

Retired in NC Mountains
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Bigj I would recommend you send them a check for 20% and tell them it is a take or leave it proposition, refuse the check and you get nothing. Mark the check "upon endorsement of this check all debts paid in full"

I have done that on two occasions and both times they accepted the check.

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In all of history, no government became more honest, less corrupt, or respected its citizens' rights more as it grew in size. E.L. 2016
Ckaminski
Posts: 3968
Incept: 2011-04-08

Mass-Hole!
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Are there any negative tax implications to doing that? I've heard horror stories about getting a surprise 1099 for the "forgiveness" of the unpaid debt.

Goforbroke
Posts: 6899
Incept: 2007-11-30
A True American Patriot!
Drain the Swamp!
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Well, my daughter had surgery in October on her knee and all of the providers neglected to check off the "Accident" box as the cause. My policy has a rider which is basically major medical (no outpatient stuff at all) but which covers accidents 100% from first dollar up to a certain amount.

So I kept getting these bills from 4 providers ... I called each one, called the insurance company, had them send a revised claim ("We can't do that") and got the medical records from the doctor which clearly stated accident and sent them to the insurance company.

Got the revised "Explanation of Benefits" today ... all covered ... still waiting to hear from the surgery center.

If I were "normal" and had a plan with which I wasn't paying virtually everything, I wouldn't have checked nor been so persistent.

This system has too many moving parts to get ahold of them unless you are on top of this all of the time. Like trying to change/clean out a gerbil cage.

Sigh.


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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, and not our Darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson
Goforbroke
Posts: 6899
Incept: 2007-11-30
A True American Patriot!
Drain the Swamp!
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Quote:
Fails to disclose material information concerning goods, services, or property which information was known at the time of an advertisement or sale if such failure to disclose such information was intended to induce the consumer to enter into a transaction
Here's what they will argue ... Urgent Care is for emergencies, and your wife's thing was an emergency. So they didn't have to disclose the price under section 6-20-101.

I have learned to suck up the lessons learned, because they have a bezillion legal beagles and lobbyists at their beck and call and they have learned to thread the needle like manics.

So ... let us start a "Lessons Learned" thread ...

Lesson #1: ALWAYS ask for a price quote EVEN in an emergency. Preferably, in writing. Or tape record. That way, you can go back and refer to it later. If they can't give you one, you have got it on record that there was a failure to disclose.

Any more?


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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, and not our Darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson

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