Uh Huh..... (You've Been Warned)
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2013-03-12 09:34
by Karl Denninger
in Editorial
Ignore this thread
Uh Huh..... (You've Been Warned)
 

It would be easy to chuckle at this and just "go along", but doing so would be a mistake.

This is the lesson we should all be taking as the Dow Jones Industrial average closes at yet another record. It's the lesson of how Wall Street traversed the Great Recession, after it survived (and thrived) past Washington-ameliorated crises such as the collapse of Long Term Capital Management and the Savings & Loan imbroglio. You could -- should -- shake your fist at all the bailouts; the record bank profits that are once again accruing to shareholders and executives; the asymmetry of rescuing now impossibly large institutions when so many individuals had to mail back the keys to their homes. But, in 20/20 hindsight, it was also smart to hedge that runaway cynicism with confidence that the system would take care of itself.

In a word, bullcrap.

Ask Bernie Madoff's (or Stanford's) clients how that worked out for them, because it will work out the same for you if you stick around too long, and you will.

It would be nice if this was not true, but it always is.  You are never privvy to the real inside information -- only the fake stuff.  Madoff's clients assumed that he was trading on inside information, which is how he managed to beat everyone else.  Stanford's clients assumed he had figured out how to game tax and investment laws via various offshore entities -- they couldn't figure out how he was doing it, and assumed he was simply smarter than them.

Neither, of course, were doing what their investors assumed was the reason for their success.

The same is true here.  You are free to assume if you wish that this "rigging" is benign and will succeed forever, but history says it never does.  History also says that the means by which you think the game is being rigged is at best partially true and at worst entirely false.

When the "subprime" mess exploded the first indication I had was in the form of Washington Mutual paying dividends with money they didn't have -- capitalized interest that hadn't (and ultimately never would be) collected.  I sounded the alarm loud and long, and was laughed at for over a year.  Those who laughed ultimately cried.

Now we have a market that is levitating on alleged "profits" that are driven by artificially suppressed rates and borrowing costs that will have to eventually be rolled over at much higher expense.  The S&P has allegedly "great profits" but the debt levels of those firms have gone up dramatically since 2007 -- and that debt will have to be serviced forever, as there has been no paying it down thus far and by the time people think to do so, it will be too late.  Right now it's cheap -- but it won't always be cheap unless the economy never recovers (in which case those "forward profit projections" will collapse!)  

Heads you lose, tails you lose more.

But..... when?

Well, ask the people who bet at intrade about that.  Allegedly there are "financial irregularities" and the site has been shut, with everyone's positions liquidated to cash.  Of course the next question, since you can't take it out, is obvious: Is the cash you posted as margin and claimed to be "in your account" really there?  

Heh, haven't we seen that story before in the not-so-distant past?

It's always amusing to listen to the folks talk about "unsustainable" things with this level of wistfulness in their eyes, as if there's some future fix that they'll apply before the great blowup happens, and all will be fine.  History says that's not what comes to pass -- instead they all play Chuck Prince, telling us that while the music is playing you must get up and dance, and invariably only a few people are close enough to the door to get through when the curtains are observed to be on fire -- everyone else suffocates or is burned to a crisp in the conflagration.

Don't be crispy.

Discussion below (registration required to post)
 

Main Navigation
Full-Text Search & Archives
Archive Access
Get Adobe Flash player





Blogtalk 3:30 CT Mondays
Items To Look At


Discuss The Capital Markets along with daily technical analysis with our Gold Donor program.

Where We Are, Where We're Heading (2013) - The annual 2013 Ticker

Links and Blogroll
Our policy on reciprocal links: Send us an email with your information and why you think your blog or news site would make a good addition - in most cases reciprocal link requests will be granted.
Legal Disclaimer

The content on this site is provided without any warranty, express or implied. All opinions expressed on this site are those of the author and may contain errors or omissions.

NO MATERIAL HERE CONSTITUTES "INVESTMENT ADVICE" NOR IS IT A RECOMMENDATION TO BUY OR SELL ANY FINANCIAL INSTRUMENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO STOCKS, OPTIONS, BONDS OR FUTURES.

The author may have a position in any company or security mentioned herein. Actions you undertake as a consequence of any analysis, opinion or advertisement on this site are your sole responsibility.

Looking for "The Best of Market Ticker"? Check out
Ticker Classics.

Visit the forum to discuss this and other investing-related topics; see the FAQ on the forum for information about Gold Donor status including access to our technical analysis video server.

Market charts, when present, used with permission of TD Ameritrade/ThinkOrSwim Inc. Neither TD Ameritrade or ThinkOrSwim have reviewed, approved or disapproved any content herein.

The Market Ticker content may be reproduced or excerpted online for non-commercial purposes provided full attribution is given and the original article source is linked to. Please contact Karl Denninger for reprint permission in other media or for commercial use.

Submissions may be sent "over the transom" to The Editor at any time. To be considered for publication your submission must include full and correct contact information and be related to an economic or political matter of the day. All submissions become the property of The Market Ticker.

Leads on stories of current economic and political interest are always welcome. Our fax tip line is 850-897-9364; please include contact information with your transmission.

 
Comments.......
User: Not logged on
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
Showing Page 1 of 2  First12Last
User Info Uh Huh..... (You've Been Warned) in forum [Market-Ticker]
Fraudster
Posts: 4176
Incept: 2011-05-10
Green
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
You mean this crispy?

smiley

----------
"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte

"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov
Genesis
Posts: 130798
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Well, yes.

----------
I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Ck_dexter
Posts: 3905
Incept: 2007-07-19
Silver
the south parlor
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
So that's a no on the Dow getting to 20K?

----------
"In other words, that the discussion about what is good, what is beautiful, what is noble, what is pure and what is true, could always go on. Why is that important, why would I like to do that? Because that's the only conversation worth having." Christopher Hitchens.
Iou
Posts: 1027
Incept: 2009-03-16
A True American Patriot!
The Twilight Zone
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Many have exited but it's hot as hell outside. The air conditioned building is luring them back in.

----------
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."- Frédéric Bastiat

Mortgageguymn
Posts: 1566
Incept: 2009-03-09
Green
North Coast
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Is there an easy way/place to see that S&P firms have taken on more debt since 2007? I thought the official line was that people (and firms) had "de leveraged" an iota or two while government debt had skyrocketed "to save the economy".
Steelhead23
Posts: 2043
Incept: 2008-09-09
Green
Portland OR
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I was watching Charlie Rose last night. He was speaking with Jeremy Grantham. Grantham was a bit cool on the market (except blue chips) but Charlie kept pumping him about how things really, really were getting better. Ya' know, when one of this planet's best stock pickers is sounding a warning, it might be a good idea to listen. Charlie's crowning achievement in this was his assertion that the current spate of mergers and acquisitions was a sure sign of hope in the future. Hello, Charlie - remember Bain Capital's business model? M&A is mostly a debt-loading operation, enabling investors to loot companies, not grow them. It truly is sad that this artificial bull market has turned people's minds to mush.

A note to Ck_dexter - shoot who knows, with the Fed pumping in 80billion per month, I wouldn't put Dow 20k out of reach, but gas would likely cost $10/gal when that happens. Karl is right. There is a crash coming - the devil only knows when.

----------
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" —Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild Benjamin Bernanke
For-profit commercial banks are a menace and should be eradicated
Medicdan
Posts: 8028
Incept: 2010-02-11
Green
Scottsdale, AZ
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
with confidence that the system would take care of itself.


LMAO. That was a great laugh. Take care of itself. Yeah... I would like to see it take care of itself. What a tool.

----------
Arizona & desert gardening
http://azediblegarden.com/
Avianphlu
Posts: 3976
Incept: 2008-12-03
Gold A True American Patriot!
Ulster NY
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
japanese utilities forced to raise rates 14-19% on weak yen...think how that would play out over here.
Hoghead32
Posts: 33
Incept: 2009-11-17

Ellicott City, Md.
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
But...but...Larry Kudlow said this stock market's gains are real, driven by profit, corporate profit.

Old Lar was on with Washington's WMAL morning radio crew this morning. He was asked if this market is genuine, and that was his response.I don't know half as much as Mr. K, but I ain't biting.[No, I don't recall him saying anything about corporate debt.]
__________________________

Hang on! We're on the ground!
Frankschoenburg
Posts: 178
Incept: 2011-08-05
Green
Northbrook, IL
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Bontly
Posts: 186
Incept: 2008-10-31

Detroit
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
japanese utilities forced to raise rates 14-19%


That's Trouble

Thanks

"Japanese utilities, forced to idle their nuclear power plants over the past two years and facing higher fuel costs due to a weak yen, are now looking to push through double-digit rate hikes for their commercial customers."

----------
If you know what you are doing you are half way done.
If you want what you have you will always have what you want.

Reason: clarify
Degaston
Posts: 2264
Incept: 2007-07-27
Green
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Personally I'd be really upset if E*Trade or TD Ameritrade pulls a MF Global or Intrade. Anyone got a good suggestion on how to mitigate the risks involved in having IRA accounts in major "reputable" brokerages like E*Trade or TD Ameritrade?

----------
3/17/2013: Bullish on nothing - 100 percent in cash.
Curious1
Posts: 441
Incept: 2008-03-22
Green
Oregon
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I wish someone could be more accurate with regards to "when"....I do understand that is an enormously difficult question to answer given all of the variables.
Frankschoenburg
Posts: 178
Incept: 2011-08-05
Green
Northbrook, IL
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Degaston,

I split mine up between Scottrade and TD Ameritrade. Not sure what else to do. If you get any better suggestions, let me know.
Little_eddie
Posts: 592
Incept: 2009-04-30
Green
Delaware
Online
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

----------
Quote:
If the math says one thing and the law says something different, it will be the law that ends up changing


Charles Calomiris
From an article in Foreign Affairs entitled “The End Of The Euro”
Jymm
Posts: 76
Incept: 2012-01-22

Wisconsin
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
What I have in the market is in my 401k, IRA and Roth. My choices are limited. I saw the last one coming and put a lot into bonds. It is still there. What scares me now is the bond market is starting to look as bad as stocks. Not sure where to go next. Cash is not even a good option now. Hard to make 1% on CD's or Money Markets for a small guy. With inflation, that is a big lose too. Prepared for about a 20% loss, but more will hurt.
Atlasrocked
Posts: 366
Incept: 2009-03-23
Silver
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I just hammered Barry Rithholz, with a similar note. Of course he won't print it, but here's what I told him after he lambasted WSJ for saying the economy was sick while "unemployment is under 8%". He has been pushing lately for investors to not pay attention to politics as they invest. :

Barry, I'm convinced there are a group of actors in our country, like Dailykos.com, that will proclaim things are great no matter what the data says. You're putting your head above a cesspool and swearing it smells like a rose garden.

Advising everyone to turn away from politics and invest, as the investment world is dominated by the politics of money printing - you point it out yourself, then the next day say "look the other way".

This plays right into the hands of the bad constituency driving the US now. The constituency that didn't even demand a dialogue during the presidential debates on the dereliction of duty to prosecute the FCIC report.

You owe the country an advocacy of being outraged, Barry, not sanguine. You're part of a cover up when you write stuff like this, a propaganda outlet.
Lemonaid
Posts: 9881
Incept: 2008-01-20
Green
Metro Detroit
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Equities will crash first... Propping up bond prices. When bond yields shoot the moon... Well, that's game over.

----------
"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved." Ludwig von Mises
Jata1
Posts: 5071
Incept: 2009-03-08
Green
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
But...but...Larry Kudlow said this stock market's gains are real, driven by profit, corporate profit.


Kudblow must be back on the junk again. I caught his show last night and he says it's not Bernanke pumping the market. Uh Huh
Pay_lay_ale
Posts: 260
Incept: 2010-09-16

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Yes, Apple has gotten a lot of criticism and lost a lot of value. But it holds $137.1B in cash and cash equivalents. Think about that for a minute...That's more free cash on hand than any other entity in the world, including governments.

Apple's a lot of things, but they're not stupid. They have some of the best and brightest engineers, accountants, marketing, and management the world has ever seen. They can't think of anything better to do with their free cash than to have it sit in the equivalent of a bank account, doing share buybacks, or dividend payouts with double taxation.

In other words, they see no value in buying any other companies outright or investing in the stock market as a whole themselves.

Ditto for other large Fortune 500 companies. A lot of them are sitting on epic piles of cash. U.S. nonfinancial companies' cash holdings are $1.24 trillion. They see no worthwhile opportunities in the stock market, bond market, commodity market, real estate market, or any other market or investment.

So why are you, the retail investor with a small sum of cash, putting money into the market? What do you know that the big guys don't?
Drkshapiro
Posts: 634
Incept: 2012-09-12
Gold
Southern CA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
On this topic of what is real and what is not, I enjoyed listening to Charles Hugh Smith on the Keiser Report the other day. He didn't quite agree with Max's wish for a plague to wipe out the bankers but he did say (to counter the Larry Kudlow type enthusiasm) something like this:

The top 10% (not the 0.01% such as Jamie Dimon and so forth) but the top 10% of so-called technocrats are doing pretty good too because they own a little piece of the asset bubble, so you don't hear too many complaints from the elite fiefdoms and academia.....what he called the economics bureaucracy. Which reminded me of this quote by Upton Sinclair:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

Don't despair: As we exit the eye of the hurricane, these analysts will be more like mumbling apparitions in a crowd, unable to discern clarity. That is, useless. And Kudlow is better than most of them.

----------
Don't let a kid drink til they're 21, but let 'em go to other countries and kill people, that's alright. --G Celente
Ampsucker
Posts: 1493
Incept: 2009-08-05

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
not to mention insider selling to buying is like 10:1 or something.

question, when a company like apple has 137 billion in cash, is that all denominated in one currency where the headquarters are located - in this case USD? or is that summed across all it's operating entities in different countries in local currencies and then converted at current exchange rates into USD? and where is it held? in some giant deposit account or spread out across hundreds or thousands of different accounts and banks across the world?
Checkthisout
Posts: 167
Incept: 2010-10-01
Green
Cary, NC
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Did y'all forget that it's Tickercon 1?

Get liquid.

Cash in hand - not in the bank. Perhaps split between safety deposit box & home safe, although some will lean toward the latter since you don't have unlimited access to the former.
If you simply CANNOT bring yourself to do the above, then for heaven's sake, spread your cash out between several banks, staying below the OLD limit of $100k/account and stay away from the big boys - use credit unions.

PM's - in hand - same as cash above, preferably US denominated coins

Keep physical assets like income producing real estate, business, etc. that you can go touch & feel (& guard with your AR) within a short drive

I don't care how much $$ you hold in paper form - if/when this thing blows, it may end up like Confederate money.

What was it that Kyle Bass said? Right now return OF capital is more important than return ON capital.

----------
There are no gun free zones where free men tread.
Cobra2411
Posts: 10352
Incept: 2007-06-26
Gold A True American Patriot!
Philly P.a.
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
A redneck could have fixed things better then they did...

Duck tape and bailing wire appropriately applied would fix a lot of things that are wrong... smiley

It's a con game fix to the giant con...

Nothing has been fixed, just papered over so more theft can occur. When that doesn't work more will be stolen from the taxpayers to take care of the elite...

Yeah, I'll be standing close to the door... Thank's for asking.... smiley

----------
To err is human. To really **** things up takes government.
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
Showing Page 1 of 2  First12Last