| User Info
| No, China Is NOT Our Friend in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Vitchilo
Posts: 4565
Incept: 2011-04-27
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http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htiw/ar....Quote:The media companies involved and the U.S. government complained to China, which denied any responsibility and pointed out that the U.S. was probably making similar attacks on Chinese companies and government networks. China realizes that the way Cyber War currently works these days is as long as no one is getting killed (at least not openly) there is not much risk of conventional (bombs, blockades, or whatever) retaliation.
China has been hacking away at U.S. targets for over a decade now and shows no signs of slowing down, despite growing U.S. efforts to defend itself. Hacks like the recent media ones are nothing new. For example, seven years ago Chinese based hackers attacked several Department of Defense computer networks and, even though discovered, got away with a lot of valuable material. Among the victims was the U.S. Navy War College which, in response, had to shut down its computer network because the Naval War College servers had to be scrutinized to see what was taken, changed, or left behind. Why attack the Navy War College? Mainly because that's where the navy does a lot of its planning for future wars. The strategy for the Pacific war during World War II was worked out at the Navy War College, and that planning tradition continues. Plus, the Chinese may have also found the War College networks to be more vulnerable.
China manages to muster all this hacker talent by vigorously recruiting patriotic Chinese Internet experts to hack for the motherland. China's one of many nations taking advantage of the Internet to encourage, or even organize, patriotic Internet users to obtain hacking services. This enables the government to use (often informally) these thousands of hackers to attack targets (foreign or domestic). These government organizations arrange training and mentoring to improve the skills of group members. China has helped identify and train over a million potential ace hackers so far. Most turn out to be minor league at best, but the few hundred hotshots identified are put to work plundering foreign networks.
While many of these Cyber Warriors are rank amateurs, even the least skilled can be given simple tasks. And out of their ranks emerge more skilled hackers, who can do some real damage. These hacker militias have also led to the use of mercenary hacker groups, who will go looking for specific secrets, for a price. Chinese companies are apparently major users of such services, judging from the pattern of recent hacking activity, and the fact that Chinese firms don't have to fear prosecution for using such methods.
It was China that really pioneered the militia activity. It all began in the late 1990s, when the Chinese Defense Ministry established the "NET Force." This was initially a research organization, which was to measure China's vulnerability to attacks via the Internet. Soon this led to examining the vulnerability of other countries, especially the United States, Japan, and South Korea (all nations that were heavy Internet users). NET Force has continued to grow. NET Force was soon joined by an irregular civilian militia, the "Red Hackers Union" (RHU). These are over half a million patriotic Chinese programmers, Internet engineers, and users who wished to assist the motherland and put the hurt, via the Internet, on those who threaten or insult China. The RHU began spontaneously in 1999 (after the U.S. accidentally bombed the Chinese embassy in Serbia), but the government has assumed some control, without turning the voluntary organization into another bureaucracy. The literal name of the group is "Red Honkers Union," with Honker meaning "guest" in Chinese. But these were all Internet nerds out to avenge insults to the motherland.
Various ministries have liaison officers who basically keep in touch with what the RHU is up to (mostly the usual geek chatter) and intervene only to "suggest" that certain key RHU members back off from certain subjects or activities. Such "suggestions" carry great weight in China, where people who misbehave on the web are very publicly prosecuted and sent to jail. For those RHU opinion-leaders and ace hackers that cooperate, there are all manner of benefits for their careers, not to mention some leniency if they later get into some trouble with the authorities. Many government officials fear the RHU, believing that it could easily turn into a "counter-revolutionary force." So far, the Defense Ministry and NET Force officials have assured the senior politicians that they have the RHU under control. All countries should be doing the same thing... but apparently, the western governments are too scared of the hackers because of what they could do against them... just one example is Anonymous...
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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Fraudster
Posts: 4170
Incept: 2011-05-10
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And yet the United States allowed itself to borrow huge amounts of money from China....
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"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov
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Ggecko
Posts: 171
Incept: 2009-07-17
USA
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I've laughed (and cried) a little over the whole China thing, considering I grew up when China was that "bad Red country", communism, etc...
But, for some reason, since they make us cheap goods, all of a sudden they are our "friend" and we love them? As a country, they didn't really change policies, they didn't change who they were, they just made us cheap goods.
Yet, a country like Cuba is still our "enemy", I guess just making cigars isn't enough for them to be in our "friend zone".....
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Fraudster
Posts: 4170
Incept: 2011-05-10
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Quote:But, for some reason, since they make us cheap goods, all of a sudden they are our "friend" and we love them? You cannot have it both ways. You want cheap goods? You want someone to finance your military and welfare programs? You want to do these things at any cost? Well.......
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"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov
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Mortgageguymn
Posts: 1561
Incept: 2009-03-09
North Coast
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NPR ran a story on it this morning. The tone implied that China's protestations of innocence were BS. They tied it into one 12-story building in Shanghai in a military neighborhood where plainclothes police patrol, preventing photos. They brought up how Obama mentioned cyber-threats in the SOTU speech without his having mentioning China by name. The biggest threat seemed to be shutting down our banking systems.
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Genesis
Posts: 130658
Incept: 2007-06-26
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I say **** these people with a rusty chainsaw.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Sean
Posts: 1765
Incept: 2009-04-21
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/tin
LaRouche and Joel Skousen say we will have a nuclear war with China sometime in the next 15ish years. FWIW.
Sean
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* I think Ann Barnhardt is more and more right. God help us!
* Progressives / Marxists / Communists are many things, STUPID and IMPATIENT are not two of them.
* A hot civil war is coming.
* And people wonder why I prep!
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Dji
Posts: 1245
Incept: 2009-04-21
Ponzi world 3rd rock from the sun
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I say **** these people with a rusty chainsaw. Thats a lot of ****in and a lot of rusty chainsaws  But where will all the rusty chainsaws be made?
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Don't be a bag holder-Me
What goes up Must come Down- Alan Parsons Project
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Mortgageguymn
Posts: 1561
Incept: 2009-03-09
North Coast
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If they were really smart, they'd hack into MERS and robo-sign a bunch of low-risk mortgages to themselves. Imagine ten million people getting "transfer of servicing" letters telling them to pay their mortgage to the People's Liberation Army.
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Fraudster
Posts: 4170
Incept: 2011-05-10
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Quote:But where will all the rusty chainsaws be made? Ooops....
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"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov
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Noodleman
Posts: 2383
Incept: 2008-11-01
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China is our friend.......while they help finance the American ponzi scam and allow American corporations access to their slave labor markets.
Once that stops we enter a brand new cold war.
Today's friends are tomorrow's enemies. That's the basis of the American international culture.
If I were a King of a foreign land I would enter into no agreements with the United States. It would be the kiss of death for sure.
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"Ammunition beats persuasion when you are looking for freedom." Will Rogers, 4 Nov 1879 - 15 Aug 1935
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Trades50
Posts: 4214
Incept: 2007-10-30
Land of Tax and Spend
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Quote:
The biggest threat seemed to be shutting down our banking systems.
We have been doing a good job of ruining it without their help. As long as our politicians keep getting contributions from multi-nationals to look the other way nothing changes.
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When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Fraudster
Posts: 4170
Incept: 2011-05-10
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Quote:Today's friends are tomorrow's enemies. That's the basis of the American international culture.
If I were a King of a foreign land I would enter into no agreements with the United States. It would be the kiss of death for sure. This is a lesson that many, many countries have learned.....the hard way.
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"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov
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Vitchilo
Posts: 4565
Incept: 2011-04-27
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If the western governments really cared, they would put big tariffs on Chinese goods and ban any corporations from investing in China if they want to sell their products in western countries.
The Chinese economy would collapse right away and would probably turn to civil war.
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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Noodleman
Posts: 2383
Incept: 2008-11-01
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Saddam thought he found a friend when Donald Rumsfeld kissed him on his lips.
How did all that work out for Saddam?
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"Ammunition beats persuasion when you are looking for freedom." Will Rogers, 4 Nov 1879 - 15 Aug 1935
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Fraudster
Posts: 4170
Incept: 2011-05-10
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As I said, many countries have learned this lesson the hard way.
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"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov
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Vitchilo
Posts: 4565
Incept: 2011-04-27
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Quote:Saddam thought he found a friend when Donald Rumsfeld kissed him on his lips.
How did all that work out for Saddam? Well if I recall, Saddam asked Bush Sr. if he could invade Kuwait... Bush Sr. said it didn't bother him. Seems to me Saddam made the mistake of trusting a Bush.
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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Gweedo
Posts: 97
Incept: 2010-11-12
Florida
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Noodleman wrote..China is our friend.......while they help finance the American ponzi scam and allow American corporations access to their slave labor markets. China is our the American Political elite's friend... With friends and leaders like these... who needs enemies? |
Thesev
Posts: 1371
Incept: 2007-10-30
Louisiana
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Congress doesn't understand Computers any more than they understand Guns.
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The reason the republic isn't working is that it's being run as a democracy.
It doesn't matter who you are, or who you Think you are, the Math is Going to Win.
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Oldpool
Posts: 873
Incept: 2010-06-23
LI NY
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The Commies are the new Capitalists, it is 'Liberty Comrade'.
What happened to Better Dead than Red, can you tell me Mr. Rockefeller?
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Liberty, Comrade!
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Winstonsmith2009
Posts: 1060
Incept: 2009-08-05
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Not to in any way defend these intellectual property thieves, but I wonder what we have been doing to them cyber-theft-wise. I wonder if the NSA's phenomenal capabilities are being used in industrial espionage on the rest of the world.
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Duc888
Posts: 7368
Incept: 2008-11-06
CT, the UNconstitution State
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....serves us right. Lay down with a dog and ya might get fleas.
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...burp
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Lenguado
Posts: 1272
Incept: 2010-01-12
Orlando, FL
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Mortgage, Quote:The biggest threat seemed to be shutting down our banking systems. GO FOR IT! Let's do it. Burn the f&*%^&$ing banks to the ground! Let's get this beotch going! edit - Yeah yeah, I know. Be careful what you ask for. But I am sooo tired of having the rope around my neck, standing on the trap door, waiting for the bastards to make up their minds whether to pull the handle, or to pardon me. I'm just very very weary of just hanging here, slowly having them cinch up the rope over the bar tighter and tighter so that I slowly strangle to death over a week long period... Either get me off the platform (do the right thing and fix the economy), or pull the damn handle - let me drop - and get it over with (ram the economy into the wall, and let the chips fall where they may). Could wind up in lots of local violence, a hot civil war, or WW III. Dunno. Hope none of these. But I don't see them fixing a damn thing, or ceding any of their power. As was infamously said, "Lets Roll."
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I just realized... they aren't saying, "Keynesian Economics" they're saying "Kenyansian Economics". Grass Huts for everyone!  Welcome to history’s first Double Dip Depression |
Jymm
Posts: 71
Incept: 2012-01-22
Wisconsin
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I have never seen China as our friend. I try to not buy from China, for myself, my family and our dog. They will poison us. I cannot believe anyone would buy food from China. Our US corporations have sold us down the river on China, and will regret it someday. China has a much different mentality than the next quarter. They are in this for the long haul. Their general look outward is 100 years. Keep that in mind.
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