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| QE's Folly: Diversion And Destruction in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Deckchairs
Posts: 96
Incept: 2012-07-06
The Slightly lessDemocrat -IC People's Rebuplic of Las
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Isn't QE4EVA/ZIRP also going to make the Social Security Trust fund insolvent a long time before any politician realizes? I don't think it gets to invest in anything other than at the so called risk free return rate.
How about the FDIC? How about the PBGC for all the private sector defined benefit plans when another round of CEO's get tired of contributing more CASH to their plans and engineers an otherwise unnecessary Chapter 11 to ditch said defined benefit plan?
And its going to destroy all the state pension funds and therefore bankrupt all the blue states too right?
But don't worry I think CalPERS lowered there necessary return from 8.0% to 7.5% ALL is fixed. /sarc
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If I could just get my tax attorney to be my girlfriend life would be all right.
Reason: more thoughts.
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Genesis
Posts: 130792
Incept: 2007-06-26
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The FICA problem is going to come from the 2% Payroll Tax abatement; at the time it went into place I said that the probable impact, on a back-of-the-envelope calculation basis, was that it moved forward the date of Social Security blowing from 2039 to about 2019 -- which is too ****ing close for the politicians.
That's why they let it expire, incidentally.
But most of the damage is already done. It looks like ~2025ish, more or less, to me at this point. And that's very bad news is that targets the ******* of those 50+ quite-clearly and there is little or nothing that can be done about it at this point.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Randy123
Posts: 5787
Incept: 2008-09-24
Earth
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Poetic justice for the gang that helped put the country in the position it is in, ****ing over future generations. No tears.
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China is the Enemy. Wake Up.
New Normal. Same As The Old Awful.
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Deckchairs
Posts: 96
Incept: 2012-07-06
The Slightly lessDemocrat -IC People's Rebuplic of Las
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I am scared of what a Democrat solution to Social Security will be.
My guess: step one: Increase FICA limit, where it phases out.
step two: Means test recipients.
Ah Yes Problem solved Comrades.
Oh well at my age I can safely count on there not being social security for me. Additionally, I am wondering if Medicare will evolve to have a Logan's Run like quality to it where at a certain age your implant starts indicating a van full of really nice "doctors" comes to take you away and you're never seen again.
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If I could just get my tax attorney to be my girlfriend life would be all right.
Reason: formatting
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Digitlman
Posts: 335
Incept: 2011-03-04
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This is not a Democrat or Republican problem. This is a politician problem. They all say whatever is needed to get elected/reelected.
So, don't expect them to face reality any time soon.
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Leicestersq
Posts: 221
Incept: 2009-10-12
UK
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Does QE really lower interest rates?
I can see that the expectation of QE, will drive up bond prices, and that will continue during the buying phase. When the money starts spewing out though, wont that drive up inflationary expectations? And at the end of the printing, there will be lots of new money and no expectations of bond buying. Who would want to buy bonds then unless there was some sort of coercion, particularly legal coercion?
So I am not so sure that QE is the real reason for low interest rates, or in the UK negative real interest rates. It almost seems that the market is expecting negative growth, and people are willing to give up an amount of money today in order to have less tomorrow. That might not be such a bad trade if the alternative use of money provides even less tomorrow than a bond does.
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Dazedncornfused
Posts: 313
Incept: 2010-10-13
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>step two: Means test recipients.<
My retirement salesman tells me the Social Security Administration is now the Federal Benefits Agency. You know, benefits, like EBT benefits.
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Stand up and be counted or line up and be numbered.
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Deckchairs
Posts: 96
Incept: 2012-07-06
The Slightly lessDemocrat -IC People's Rebuplic of Las
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Look I am a political Atheist ( thanks Gerard Celente).
But I don't think Republicans ( sorry in my state they're basically all retired middle class white people) can get away with increasing the FICA limit and means testing. Their base would hate that. The Democratic base not so much.
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If I could just get my tax attorney to be my girlfriend life would be all right.
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Mike77079
Posts: 24
Incept: 2010-06-21
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How does this square with "There Is Reason For Longer-Term Optimism" from 1/24? Has the reason for that optimism now gone away?
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Mannfm11
Posts: 3551
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
Online
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I don't believe they can do anything but set social security up on a pay as you go basis. To pretend to have a trust fund would only allow the politicians to screw us again.
Karl wrote here what I have been writing for years. People were going to retire out of the stock market. Dividends in 2000 were barely above 1% on the SPX and near zero in the Nasdaq. There was no safe withdrawal rate in stocks that wasn't barely over the dividend rate. Bernanke has ****ed it all up, as the SPX now yields 2% and you can't get much more elsewhere. Thus you can't very well blend stocks and fixed income to get a higher withdrawal rate. The best one can do is take some money out and buy an annuity for a guaranteed portion of the needed income. Most people are going to find their retirement looks like their dick in ice water, a little short.
If people really understood what Bernanke has been doing, I doubt he would be safe. Ban guns hell. Better ban gasoline, baseball bats and anything else.
Doug Noland immediately, in 2009, began writing about the government finance bubble. His latest is worth reading. In fact, every week of his is worth reading. There is an accident coming in the finance bubble. I suspect that government deficits crowd out private borrowing, not in the sense that there isn't money, but in the sense that it makes a lot of it not necessary.
I wonder what books Bernanke read. He must have been buddies with Michael Koo or is it Richard Koo? Japan didn't deleverage either, but Koo indicated they did.
There is a lot made of debt service, but I think the mistake there is failing to look at the amount of debt in comparision to income. The world doesn't look at people or institutions getting out of debt any more, merely how much interest and principal can they pay in relation to their income. Where we have arrived is the banks get a slice out of everything. In fact, I think the pension system is a cruel hoax in that the only group that makes any money off it is Wall Street.
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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Judgesmales
Posts: 3334
Incept: 2008-02-05
Las Vegas
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Damn right, people are going to be eating cat food, and Bernanke is the one serving it up to them, all in the name of pumping a stock bubble and/or consumption. Bernanke's declaration of war on savers -- his goal of pushing savers into riskier (bubble) assets -- is clobbering me. I wanted to throw a brick through the screen in 2011 when the smug bastard said he knew he was penalizing savers, but that everyone "had to do their part." This effete Ivy Leaguer can DIAF, the sooner the better. Here's the quote and link: dickheadBernanke wrote..Low interest rates "do have costs for a lot of people," he says, and the Fed recognizes that. "There is a greater good here, which is the health and recovery of the U.S. economy," Bernanke says. "After all, savers are not going to get very good returns in an economy" in recession.” http://www.financialsense.com/contributo....
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Don't forget: Panic is also an animal spirit, and it spreads much faster than optimism. Be careful what you wish for, Bernanke.
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Mo
Posts: 12158
Incept: 2007-06-26
Pa.
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Trust me, the 50-somethings will be eating 20-somethings.
But they'll raise the SS cap first. This was the reason Obama cut the tax to begin with: first you have to create the crisis, before you propose the solution to it.
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Welcome to Pottersville
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Throxxofvron
Posts: 10330
Incept: 2009-02-17
Hyper-Speculative Psycho-Facsistic Parabolic Blow-Off
Online
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I'm not in a Union; but, I tried to explain that Obama/Bernanke/ZIRP was ****ing destroying the Pensions to the Union Reps. at work. "Romney hates Brown People!" "They are giving us free health care." "The Employer will have to make up the difference." "We're Democrats." Quote:Does QE really lower interest rates? Borrowing... IBM pays 1% for a $Billion. What is the rate on your Credit Card? 15% ?! -There's your answer: Not for YOU if YOU are BORROWING. Lending... Insolvent European Banking Frauds? Billions @ ZIRP. American Small Business? Hahahahahahaha.... Zuckerbergs and Trumps and Chinese Bureaucrats buy You up or steal everything cause You can't fight in Court when Your'e broke. Recovery? -Go look at the cover of this weeks edition of 'American Metals Markets' after You are all done masterbating to the Barron's cover. So, is that Mega DOW Stock Rally trickling down onto the Peasants? SNAP might also be an indication of the damage from ZIRP to those that would have had marginal interest income for non-discretionary purchasing. Every time I hear Someone gush about the Market I ask: 1. "Are YOU in the Market and making all that money or are You just hearing about a great Market and got bupkiss?" Usually this brings conversation to a halt. IF it doesn't: 2. I think that SNAP/Food Stamp participation is a better gauge of the health of the American Economy. Do YOU know if SNAP usage is rising or falling or anything about the numbers of People accessing this type of assistance? Sometimes I bother to give them some stats. Invariably that is the end of that conversation....
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DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell
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Ktrosper
Posts: 1500
Incept: 2010-04-06
ft collins co
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Mo wrote..Trust me, the 50-somethings will be eating 20-somethings. Not my 3 kids... They'll be able to shout, "**** YOU! I WILL NOT PAY!" in seven different languages while flipping us the bird... 
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The unexamined life is not worth living.-Socrates The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle Liberty exists now in the spaces government has not yet chosen to occupy.-Doc Zero I anticipate that 10 Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders will blow me this evening.-K.D
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Tritumi
Posts: 166
Incept: 2008-11-29
tokyo
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Judgesmales, fwiw i have taken the view that the problem as you express it is the optimal strategy in these circumstances.
wealth preservation rather than expectation of increasing wealth may be passive resistance, it may be head in the sand, it may be Billy Budd saying NO. it may be blind faith in mathematics.
it is just as Leicestersq phrases it so well; " It almost seems that the market is expecting negative growth, and people are willing to give up an amount of money today in order to have less tomorrow. That might not be such a bad trade if the alternative use of money provides even less tomorrow than a bond does."
i concluded decades ago that social security would be impossible with the tsunami of boomer retirees. i am a boomer, on the cusp, it seems, of retirement. my participation in govt programs has been, over my career, next to nil. just enough to satisfy the number of quarters required for a pittance. my participation in crime scenes masking as markets has also been since 2006 nil. i accept the erosion of wealth in my basket as ben's extraconstitutional tax on that wealth. abenomics now initiates the same thing. in return, my powder is as dry as full liquidity allows and obscurity is my mantra.
this is a gamble on deflation, certainly not hyperinflation. i expect a VAT in the USA, just as Japanese VAT is increasing as well. i expect all manner of tax and fee fleecing under the 'shared sacrifice' meme. the boomer strategy will have to be avoiding the fleecing, staying healthy, and avoiding exposure while remaining legal. as in 2008, one can only step nimbly to let the rush to the black hole move efficiently to its destination without one. bruising ahead for all, but crushing in the ultimate density only for those who have not seen it.
no happy warriors on the bozo bus, i expect.
sorry for the run on. i am grateful for the constant flow of good sense here.
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Rickcaird
Posts: 78
Incept: 2009-08-17
Boynton Beach, Fl
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Unfortunately, only those of us who realize we are being killed by ZIRP and QExx see the damage. Drawing down our savings rather than living off the earnings is eating our seed corn. Those who are not paying attention to their 401K's and still have a corporate pension do not see the daily damage. It is frustrating that the MMT and Keynesion frauds are running around telling us all is well. Yesterday, I stumbled on an LA Times article that is being reprinted in other papers. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/natio....,3292950.story The story contains quotes from Mark Zandi, the CBPP, and the Tax Policy Center. The gist is that there is nothing to worry about. A few tweaks to Medicare and Social Security will fix the problems and the sign that the US is OK is the low interest rates for Treasury bonds. These guys are delusional, but how many of the readers actually know enough to challenge this idiocy?
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Ktrosper
Posts: 1500
Incept: 2010-04-06
ft collins co
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Rick wrote..Those who are not paying attention.... are gonna get steam-rolled. Not paying attention is NOT a good survival trait.
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The unexamined life is not worth living.-Socrates The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle Liberty exists now in the spaces government has not yet chosen to occupy.-Doc Zero I anticipate that 10 Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders will blow me this evening.-K.D
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Tritumi
Posts: 166
Incept: 2008-11-29
tokyo
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Rickcaird, be grateful you have prepared a meal for yourself and eat sparingly. such is my view. better to eat what one has provided for oneself than to steal or require transfer payments from others that are the same thing.
one may consume a measure of what one had hoped to leave forward, but if one has taught the lesson well, that is perhaps the better inheritance.
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Throxxofvron
Posts: 10330
Incept: 2009-02-17
Hyper-Speculative Psycho-Facsistic Parabolic Blow-Off
Online
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IF You make a 1% Profit... Pay Taxes on that profit... & Inflation is above 1%... -Then You made LOST how much? Oh, I forgot; the amount 'invested' is $233 Billion...http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomiogeron/2....Quote:CALPERS Returns 1% For Fiscal Year
The California Public Employees’ Retirement System returned 1% on its investments in the fiscal year ending June 30, a substantial miss for the largest U.S. pension fund.
CALPERS, which had assets of $233 billion as of June 30, has an annual investment return target of 7.5%, which it had lowered from 7.75% recently.
The data is a bad sign for public pension funds nationally, many of which are under pressure as governments face large budget deficits and face troubles funding their pension commitments.
Stocks in the CALPERS portfolio dropped 7.2% due to turmoil in Europe and slowing economic growth globally, CALPERS said. Real estate was a bright spot and was up 15.9% for the year.
Private equity was actually up 5.4% for the year. While the firm did not release returns data for funds as of June 30, CALPERS’ most recent data as of March 31 showed that private equity had a five-year internal rate of return of 7.5%. Venture capital, which is a small piece of PE for CALPERS, had a 4.0% IRR. CALPERS has previously said it is cutting its target exposure to venture capital to 1%.
CALPERS holds stakes in some prominent names in venture capital or secondary venture capital, such as New Enterprise Associates, Draper Fisher Jurvetson, GGV, Instiutional Venture Partners, Khosla Ventures, Lightspeed Venture Partners, Trinity Ventures and W Capital Group.
Not all the funds had return data, but for the ones that did I pulled out their five year internal rate of return for CALPERS. Note also that these may not be all apples to apples, since some funds may be earlier in the investment cycle than others.
Draper Fisher Jurvetson: -3.8% GGV: 8.2% Instiutional Venture Partners: N/A Khosla Ventures: N/A Lightspeed Venture Partners: 8.4% New Enterprise Associates: 16.0% Trinity Ventures: 5.0% VantagePoint Venture Partners: 4.3% W Capital Group (not a venture firm but it does secondary investments in VC firms): 11.9% It’s worth noting that a number of top tier venture firms purposely don’t take investments from public pension funds because they want to keep their data private.
CALPERS manages retirement benefits for more than 1.6 million California state and local government employees and their families. Bernanke just sits some kid a terminal and has him buy all the 10 year available and gets a better return than these ****ing Idiots.
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DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell
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Genesis
Posts: 130792
Incept: 2007-06-26
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CALPERS is ****ed.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Otiswild
Posts: 5627
Incept: 2009-03-09
Inside you, the force is!
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Quote:My guess: step one: Increase FICA limit, where it phases out.
step two: Means test recipients.
Ah Yes Problem solved Comrades. You forgot forced conversions/confiscations of private 401ks..
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Ktrosper
Posts: 1500
Incept: 2010-04-06
ft collins co
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Otiswild wrote..You forgot forced conversions/confiscations of private 401ks.. yep.. that's 16 Trillion bones that they'll find a way to get ahold of before this **** is over.
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The unexamined life is not worth living.-Socrates The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle Liberty exists now in the spaces government has not yet chosen to occupy.-Doc Zero I anticipate that 10 Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders will blow me this evening.-K.D
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Throxxofvron
Posts: 10330
Incept: 2009-02-17
Hyper-Speculative Psycho-Facsistic Parabolic Blow-Off
Online
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Quote:Stocks in the CALPERS portfolio dropped 7.2% due to turmoil in Europe and slowing economic growth globally, CALPERS said. Real estate was a bright spot and was up 15.9% for the year. Now about that 'organic Cash Buyer driven recovery' in certain Cali RE Markets....
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DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell
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Jb350
Posts: 359
Incept: 2011-06-10
Detroit metro
Banned
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My company is paying $17k per employee for a frickin trash "insurance" coverage that carries a totally unbelievable $8000 deductible for families ($4000 single). This is outrageous. This is a crack up boom that has spiraled out of control. If someone told me 10 years ago that everyone would be paying these kinds of numbers with those kinds of deductibles, I would have just quit my job and moved up north and said screw all this crap, because it is going to implode. Isnt it obvious now!?!!? It's a 2000 pound boulder rolling down a hill at 30 mph. Look at the trajectory of this thing. In 5 years it will be $15000 deductibles with $2000-$2500 a month frickin premiums!! How can you even think about those numbers without cracking up laughing? And no one does anything about it. Not a damn thing to stop it or even slow it down.
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