| User Info
| Oh Look, The Statists Are Not Done in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Rvacha
Posts: 8295
Incept: 2008-10-03
Cleveland
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Another excellent ticker - thanks.
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"I suggest you panic." - Hugh Hendry
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Mdm
Posts: 333
Incept: 2010-10-13
South Florida
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Quote:In the case of both homicide and medical error, however, someone has aggression directed at them without their consent. Considering that most medical error is negligence and not intentional action, I disagree that there is aggression where there is mere negligence. Doctors and hospitals should surely be held accountable for their actions, but I think saying that all medical error is an act of aggression is a stretch.
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Jb350
Posts: 359
Incept: 2011-06-10
Detroit metro
Banned
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"The 'war on drugs' has been an abject failure. Not only has it failed to stop the abuse of drugs it has provided hundreds of billions of dollars of illicit profit for criminal gangs over the years and the banksters involved. This in turn has been funneled into weapons and has driven the homicide rate higher."
Everyone with a brain knows that this is what happens with drugs and drug money. Except the people who support the war on drugs. They know and just dont care. That is how we know the government is a mafia/criminal cartel.
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Drkshapiro
Posts: 630
Incept: 2012-09-12
Southern CA
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Nice ticker What Mdm says about negligence is correct; the tools to improve medical safety are known; the important thing is to stop paying for negligent care, which has just recently been started and has a long way to go. The majority of patients in a healthcare facility are horizontal and helpless. KS
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Honesty may be the best policy, but it’s important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy. --G Carlin
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Cobra2411
Posts: 10346
Incept: 2007-06-26
Philly P.a.
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Quote:Drug abuse, much of it from prescription medication, now kills more Americans each year than homicide or car accidents. I know, lets declare a war on drugs! That'll fix it... 
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To err is human. To really **** things up takes government.
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Britishsteel
Posts: 3584
Incept: 2007-12-07
New york
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" At its core the problem with these folks is that they refuse to accept that you are a sovereign individual and that you, and nobody but you, has the right to determine your destiny -- for good or bad."
BRAVO Well said Karl.
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One Ring to rule them all,One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all,and in the darkness bind them.
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Harrisonact
Posts: 1754
Incept: 2010-10-04
canada
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damn straight. my body, my choice .
hey, isn't that basically roe vs. wade?
what a cluster****.
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bilge My playbook speaks español. Deal with it. Im too lazy to fix it.
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Medicdan
Posts: 8020
Incept: 2010-02-11
Scottsdale, AZ
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Drug abuse. Look up abuse. Lol.
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Noodleman
Posts: 2391
Incept: 2008-11-01
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This is not at all surprising. I read somewhere that the average 65 year old is on about 6 different prescription meds. That's why the average lifespan now is close to 80. Let's face it. 60 years is really a long enough life for a human being. If you haven't accomplished something by age 60 there's a 98% chance you ain't going to get there. It's really time to move aside and make room for the next guy to give it a shot. We only have so many resources on the planet and we are spreading them thin today as it stands. If we reduced the lifespan to 60 most of our problems would be solved. Quite a famous economist visited the college that I attended for a lecture one day. He gave his little spiel and at the end took questions from the audience. One courageous kid raised his hand and asked the economist what his answer would be to the world's problems. His answer was short and sweet and I will never forget it as long as I live: "To reduce the world's population by half". Then he asked for the next question. I just sat there with a smile on my face.
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"Ammunition beats persuasion when you are looking for freedom." Will Rogers, 4 Nov 1879 - 15 Aug 1935
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Medicdan
Posts: 8020
Incept: 2010-02-11
Scottsdale, AZ
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Quote:This is not at all surprising. I read somewhere that the average 65 year old is on about 6 different prescription meds. Yup. Doctors "train wreck" patients all the time. One of the problems is that PT's have multiple doctors and never bother to show the primary care doc what they take. In the emergency medicine field those people are called train wrecks. Edit; There is nothing worse than the EMS crew finding these people unconscious or in cardiac arrest and when you ask the family what meds they're on (in order to piece a possible cause together) they hand you a grocery bag of meds. We usually look for signs of Oxy overdose or mass cardiac med OD.
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Chris92346
Posts: 1314
Incept: 2009-03-25
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So I have heard that bad medicine is like the 4 or 5th leading cause of death in the USA. I know it is really bad...
However I have a hard time buying the 200,000 number.
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Noodleman
Posts: 2391
Incept: 2008-11-01
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The human body is just like a machine. With wear and tear it breaks down. Can you delay the breakdown is some cases? Oh, sure you can. But age will eventually catch up with you. The grim reaper always gets the last laugh. There is no doubt that some medicines prolong life for decades. Controlling blood pressure is quite important to live a long life. BP pills do that for most people. I have a friend whose tyroid malfunctioned at a relatively young age (43). Without synthroid she would be a basketcase and probably die long before her time. Some meds are truly miracles. But like everything else in life, greedy people start to game them. And then they come out with new ones that prolong life for a few months at a cost of $30,000 a month. The FDA gives their blessings because money talks.
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"Ammunition beats persuasion when you are looking for freedom." Will Rogers, 4 Nov 1879 - 15 Aug 1935
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Vitchilo
Posts: 4615
Incept: 2011-04-27
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Quote:Drug abuse, much of it from prescription medication, now kills more Americans each year than homicide or car accidents. It has become the fastest-growing cause of accidental death in the U.S. Thanks to big pharma giving kickbacks to doctors... drugs ads on tv (the only ones we got in Canada are for Viagra and that's about it...), drugging kids all day long... America being 4% of the world population yet taking 60%+ of all drugs in the world? Ridiculous. And the illegal drug usage has been going up 20%+ since the depression began. The use of legal drugs usage probably went up even more.
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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Mannfm11
Posts: 3545
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
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The prescription drugs users are the craziest of all of them. Also, there are plenty of laws in place and safeguards as well. The users are the craziest because they think they are smart acquiring scripts that destroy their lives. Heroin kills a lot of people here in this upper middle class enclave where I live. Also, there was this visiting nurse who came to see my mother who has leukemia. Mom was anxious over a decision about treatment. The nurse told her to get some Zanex. My mother wouldn't know what state she was in if the took that stuff. Worst drug abusers are nurses.
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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Kareninca
Posts: 173
Incept: 2011-08-23
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Pain is a big factor. I'm not sure what the answer is.
We have a friend in upstate NY who has trigeminal neuralgia; that is, she has "suicide" level pain. I presume there is some connection to the fact that her only child, a six year old girl, was hit and killed by a car in front of her years ago. Or, maybe there is no connection; her mother had terrible pain, too.
So, her doctors have turned her into an addict. Just as her mother became - and her mother died of the addiction. What do you do, when someone comes to you who is experiencing unremitting, agonizing physical pain?
My mom has terrible pain, too; probably due to underlying arthritis. However she is in Connecticut and so has every reasonably possible resource. From the beginning, I have made sure that she has used every conceivable alternative treatment - acupuncture, massage, chiropractor treatment, swimming, fish oil, light therapy, various forms of traction, IN ADDITION to the narcotic pain meds that she is prescribed. You have to "get ahead" of the pain; once your body is used to pain, it keeps making more of it; the nerves are primed for it.
We have a relative who is in his 40s. Because of terrible, unrelenting physical pain, he has had dozens of operations, none of which have helped. I think that if he had started early with some alternative stuff, that might have slowed things a bit. But the medical system (in CT) threw the medical works at him. And he's an addict now. A very hard working, "employed as an engineer by the state" addict. Whether he can ultimately keep his job, with all his absences for operations, is unclear.
I've tried to help our friend in upstate NY. I've sent her books and supplements and suchlike. However staving this sort of pain off is a full-time job, and I can't pay for the more expensive stuff. I really don't expect her to live to a reasonable age (she's now 65).
These are not lazy people who want drugs to feel extra good. They've worked all their lives, and are horrified and embarrassed that they are taking opiates. Physical pain is a terrible thing, and doctors try to relieve it, with the only thing that works for people (or at least works quickly, for a period of time). And then they get addicted, and they die. These are a lot of the medication deaths.
I could list a number of other "regular" people I know who are in the same boat.
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Kareninca
Posts: 173
Incept: 2011-08-23
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The thing is, Mannfm11, that once you're addicted, you're addicted. You can have stupid views about your addiction, like your neighbors ("gee, look what I'm getting away with, by getting these extra prescriptions!) or you can have morally worthy middle class views about it ("good grief, this is terrible, I feel like an awful person for taking this.") But in either case you're still addicted. And while some people can escape, it's not common or easy.
And even if you kick the addiction, the physical pain is still there.
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Vernonb
Posts: 398
Incept: 2009-06-03
State College, PA
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I cringe out the thought of going into a hospital for any type of invasive surgical procedure. Hospitals seem to be the worst place in the world for the septic type of preventable infections. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/....
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"The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.” -Alber Camus (1913-1960)
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Grashopa
Posts: 2621
Incept: 2009-02-03
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Quote: What do you do, when someone comes to you who is experiencing unremitting, agonizing physical pain?
Love and time spent with them. Unfortunately you can't help everyone because there isn't enough time and you to go around. They don't need books and links, they need someone to be there with them and hold their hand each day as they go through their problems. But its the same for everyone, we all need others and illness just makes it a little more obvious. Statists simply want to feel good about themselves believing its possible for them to 'help', without putting in the effort.
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Theft is evil
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Kareninca
Posts: 173
Incept: 2011-08-23
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Grashopa, the people I've described have loving and caring friends and relatives, and not just distant ones. But the emotional support and attention has neither cured their physical pain nor prevented them from relying on opiates, and in most cases becoming addicted. I agree that love and time are crucial, and help, but they are not sufficient.
I agree that there is NOTHING that the government can or will do - other than fund basic medical research, perhaps - that will help. The government comes up with stupid laws and regs and programs and initiatives, and never touches the problem, but simply makes it a more costly and ugly one.
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Mannfm11
Posts: 3545
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
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karen, I won't go into details what I know about addiction, but it is more than 99.5% of the population and i have met thousands of them. You get addicted to pain medication by stepping up the dose, not from merely taking it. A guy I know that I met at age 16 told me about taking heroin. He wasn't taking it for pain, but he said after 30 days, it wasn't to get high, but to just feel normal. I have known guys who took a hammer to their foot, so they could get pain medication and I had a guy stay on my couch a few weeks. Had to throw him out and when I got the phone bill, there were 60 information calls where he was shopping doctors, namely dentists, to get some pills. he was abusing the drugs, not taking them for pain. I have met plenty of nurses who either lost their licenses or were on probation for doing drugs. Again, not for pain, but to get off. You take increasing doses to get loaded on pills. I met a guy once who said he spent $20K in one year, back in the early 1980's on percadan. Harder to do today, as the doctors get investigated if they prescribe too many drugs of this sort.
There are more people die from alcoholism than anything else in society. 1 out of 10 that goes into DT's die from it and it is an extreme medical condition. This doesn't happen with heroin or the other horrible drugs. What isn't talked about is most advanced alcoholics are also smokers and I suspect the ills caused by drinking are quite often attributed to smoking. Then you have the kidney problems, which are the number one cause of disability. I was surprised to learn, while taking continuing education to maintain a life insurance license that the number one cause of disability from kidney disease was taking too many analgesics. What will cure you will also kill you.
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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Kareninca
Posts: 173
Incept: 2011-08-23
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Mannfm11, I've gone to some effort to avoid people who take pain meds for any reason other than pain. So my reference group is a small one. What I see is that people's pain worsens, and they then take more of the opiate for the worse pain. They do it reluctantly, and try all sorts of other things first. In some cases they endure real agony for as long as they can, before taking any. It is not part of their world view that they would be dependent on pain meds.
If, as you say, it's stepping up the dose that causes addiction, well, then they are causing addiction. But they are doing it because their pain has gotten worse, and the old dose no longer blocks it.
99.5 percent of the population addicted!! You must be including coffee!!!
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Wearedoomed
Posts: 3584
Incept: 2009-01-14
slightly red state
Online
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Carbs (including sugar) are practically addictive also. Oh yes they are! Ask Robert Lustig, William Davis or Gary Taubes. It's highly probable to feel withdrawal symptoms if you try to go from a high-carb diet to a low-carb one, which is why a lot of people who try to make that switch fail. In fact, the liver metabolizes carbs almost exactly the same way as it does alcohol.
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And you, my father, there on the sad height, Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray. Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Harrisonact
Posts: 1754
Incept: 2010-10-04
canada
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mannfm11;
most of what you say is dead on but two things I'd like to clarify
Pure opiates are truly benign to the body after they've left. But Ibuprofen & acetamenophin are far deadlier to the liver and kidneys than alcohol or opiates, when abused. One large dose of either can be game over to organs. IIRC 5g of APAP is lethal to the liver. That's 10 extra strength Tylenol.
Nowhere does it impress the lethality on the packages of these 2 otc medicines.
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bilge My playbook speaks español. Deal with it. Im too lazy to fix it.
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Doofer
Posts: 80
Incept: 2008-11-13
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When Noodleman reaches 60 I'll gladly escort him to the cattle car...
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