ISSA Finally Says It Like It Is
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2013-01-01 22:28
by Karl Denninger
in Editorial
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ISSA Finally Says It Like It Is
 

"We're taxing $1.2 trillion dollars this year.  We're not collecting it, but we're taxing it."

Yep.

That's the bottom line. 

When Congress spends in deficit it is taxing money that it does not collect today, and thinks it can collect those dollars tomorrow -- by force.

Let me point this out for anyone who is paying attention, which Mr. Issa appears to understand but nobody else on that floor has yet spoken of:

I have absolutely no expectation that my daughter, any other person who does not have the franchise, and those who are not yet born will pay those taxes, as they had neither a vote or a voice in assessing them. 

She gave no consent.  She received no benefit. 

She has no obligation to pay and has every right to resist such an assessment through all means, without exception.

Period.

I explained this to my father, in his living room, more than a decade ago while my daughter was crawling on his carpet as he prattled on about how he was entitled to spend the same money twice -- money he claimed he was owed in Medicare and Social Security benefits but which through his votes he had already spent on other things such as welfare, labor protections and other various government programs.

Nobody can spend the same dollar twice.  What he was voting for, rather, was to financially assault his granddaughter as he had already voted to spend the dollars he claimed he was entitled to collect.  And being a CPA he knew good and damned well what he was voting for when he voted to spend those dollars the first time.  His acts were not from ignorance, they were intentional, as have been those of most of the so-called "adults" of today arguing for these "benefits" and their "representatives."

I could and did resist at the ballot box -- the consequence of my failure to succeed in doing so is mine.

If you are of age then your failure to do so, or worse, your belief that this can be continued without consequence, is likewise yours.

But my daughter had no ability to resist and received no benefit from said spending and thus has no obligation to pay and nothing other than her willful and intentional future consent, freely given, can change this fact.  I made clear to my father at the time that as she grew up I would both make clear to her that she had no obligation to pay any such amounts and would fully support any decision she made in resisting such payment. 

Needless to say that conversation didn't end well.

This, above all else, is the reason that every person under the age of 18 today and every unborn citizen of tomorrow has every moral, ethical and naturally lawful right to refuse to pay one thin dime of such taxation that is imposed but not collected today by the jackasses such as Charles Rangel who are right now speaking in favor of assessing those who have not given consent.

The amount that our government claims she owes is more than $184,000 and rising by the minute. 

In point of fact she owes exactly zero, as exactly none of this has inured to her benefit nor was it contracted with her consent.  No person can lawfully sell another into slavery , economic or otherwise, and any attempt to do so gives rise to an absolute right under the laws of nature to resist through whatever means are necessary.

No Congress and no President has the right to impose taxation on those who are under the age of majority, have no voice or vote, and those not yet born. 

All clever speeches about "fairness" are lies as no person has a right to enslave our youth and those not yet born no matter what sort of flowery language is used.

No Congress and no President has the right to deficit spend as persons who obtained no benefit and gave no consent have every right to refuse to pay through whatever means are necessary.

And if those young people make that decision, whether it happens tomorrow, next year or decades down the road they are fully justified in enforcing their decision irrespective of the means by which they do so.

Discussion below (registration required to post)
 

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User Info ISSA Finally Says It Like It Is in forum [Market-Ticker]
Crzymorse
Posts: 1195
Incept: 2010-06-25

Maryland
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Charles Rangel - the ****ing tax evader. Another reason spending needs to be cut.
Duc888
Posts: 7368
Incept: 2008-11-06
Gold
CT, the UNconstitution State
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Issa:
Quote:
"We're taxing $1.2 trillion dollars this year. We're not collecting it, but we're taxing it."


Sounds to me like he's OK with the taxing part....but wants the "collections" part to go into high gear. Maybe I am reading that wrong.

Karl:
Quote:
But my daughter had no ability to resist and received no benefit from said spending and thus has no obligation to pay and nothing other than her willful and intentional future consent, freely given, can change this fact.


ORLY? I'd bet IRS feels otherwise when she gets her first job.

I see you did qualify your statement by mentioning her being taxed while underage of employment, but still........

Where is your contract? Where did you sign? Just playing devils advocate here. ;)






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...burp

Mdporter
Posts: 560
Incept: 2008-02-26

San Jose, CA
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Reminder: A member of the US House of Representatives makes about $174,000 a year. After ten or twelve years they get that amount for life.

Same in the Senate.

A salary most can only dream about, not including all the perks. And yet they still can't make even the most basic decisions.
Genesis
Posts: 130779
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
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Duc: Oh I'm sure the IRS will see it that way.

If, however, youth of today or those not-yet-born all turn into Joseph Stack (or worse) I cannot condemn them for doing so, as they neither consented or benefited from this.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Azusgm
Posts: 2423
Incept: 2010-12-02
Green
East Texas
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They did make the decision to prevent the Obama pay hikes from going into effect. Two Republicans voted against it. The vote was 287-129.
Frat
Posts: 1935
Incept: 2009-07-15
Silver
NKY
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Quote:
No Congress and no President has the right to deficit spend as persons who obtained no benefit and gave no consent have every right to refuse to pay through whatever means are necessary.


...hence the reason that Fein**** and the like are bound and determined to remove the legitimate tools of their future refusal. See folks? Taxes and the right to bear arms (and duty, in point of fact) ARE VERY MUCH intertwined....

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We're ****ed. Where's Henry Bowman when you need him?

Reason: Parenthetical Movement
Marvinmartian
Posts: 752
Incept: 2011-03-16
Green
Pasadena, CA
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I have been telling those in my life - todays deficits means tomorrow's taxes to pay them off.

I have not gone into the financial******of today's youth. I'll have to find a way of saying that to those around me without them ceasing to listen.
Azusgm
Posts: 2423
Incept: 2010-12-02
Green
East Texas
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Gen, Rep. Jean Schmidt (R-Ohio) just agreed with you.
Ghopper
Posts: 2317
Incept: 2011-06-11

Staten Island, NY
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Quote:
"*CANTOR VOTES NO ON BUDGET BILL"


Cant'or smells blood.
He is pretending to be in opposition to make a play at the Speaker Chair.
Cvdoc
Posts: 163
Incept: 2009-06-11

Washington, DC
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Agree Ghopper. Cantor will likely succeed. And how about Ryan. Never serious about bein VP. Ran for his seat simultaneously. And voted for this bill. Another wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master.
Sallust
Reluctantdebtor
Posts: 131
Incept: 2010-03-05

ohio
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That taxes aren't really "owed" is a belief I shared. I brilliantly avoided them, although I never made enough money to save any beneficial amount. Then my body failed bit by bit, and I exhausted my savings and credit within two years thanks to the American medical system. Then I applied for "disability" because hey why not. Then I found out that, at my age, a certain amount of "credits" were necessary to get full disability payments. I did not have them, so I did not qualify. I did qualify for 50% of the disability amount if I establish a proper medical history, which has become difficult since few local doctors will even let me in their offices (I owe them tens of thousands of dollars I don't have and can't get). So the whole thing just*****es me off. I am faced with the eventual possibility of taking up occasionally armed criminal activity to make ends meet, a laughable thought considering my pronounced limp and constant pain. It has been over thirty years since I engaged in such things, and I no longer confident I can pull that off. If I can make it to "retirement" age alive & intact, and if current benefits still exist then, I might be okay for a while. I'm not counting on it. That's a few years away.
Mortgageguymn
Posts: 1566
Incept: 2009-03-09
Green
North Coast
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Here's the vote

http://news.yahoo.com/house-roll-call-de....

Looks like it was Republicans in places like NY, CA, FL, MI, OH who were mostly the ones who'd voted "yes".
Vegasradar
Posts: 8668
Incept: 2007-07-11
Silver A True American Patriot!
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OMG
INFLATE
INFLATE
INFLATE

who would have thunk it??

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Be the change you want to see in the world. ~Mahatma Gandhi
Azusgm
Posts: 2423
Incept: 2010-12-02
Green
East Texas
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The Oklahoma Republicans did a mighty fancy job of voting "yes". Even some of the Texas Republicans voted "yes". Every single Republican and every single Democrat for Pennsylvania voted "yes". The one Republican from Oregon voted "yes" while three of the four Democrats from Oregon voted "no".

Really not what I expected on a detailed basis.
Mannfm11
Posts: 3551
Incept: 2009-02-28
Gold
DFW, Tx
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This doesn't have anything to do with what is owed in the future. They will push that ball until it won't roll. The debt is being taken out of the current economy. All you stupid ****s here that say, "they will just print it" should shut up and find out what that mean. In fact, if we were face to face having that discussion, chances are you would find my hands around your throat.

Gerald Celante was just on Coast to Coast AM. He described the morans running our country. Morons. I don't care if they graduated at the top of their class at Harvard, morons all the same. Go to Iraq for some odd ball reason. Spend a trillion, lose a war, kill a million people and ruin the lives of thousands of our own people. Do the same in Afghanistan. We have ****ing idiots pulling $4 trillion a year out of our economy. Think about it?

Why is the US not competitive in the production of goods? It isn't labor costs. It is the cost of the government, including the dilution of our standard of living. Put it on the credit card. Force credit into the system to support consumption. Let the bastard multinationals make stuff overseas and leave the taxation on the border, pretending to keep the money offshore. We are being led by a criminal organization, down the path of ruin, so they can enjoy a little prestige.

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Noodleman
Posts: 2393
Incept: 2008-11-01

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I am really ashamed to be a baby boomer. Really, I am. I remember all the BS about "flower power". Now the ones who wore flowers in their hair and asked for equality and fairness are ****ing the up and coming generations out of their financial futures. Whenever I talk to college kids on the street I apologize to them. I do. I tell them that I'm sorry that my generation has contributed greatly to turning their generation into future debt slaves. Some of them understand what I'm talking about. But many of them look at me with their heads turned sideways with a quizzical glance in their eyes. I just tell them that sooner or later they will understand what I mean.

But I really don't understand why the kids aren't fighting back? They can't be that stupid. Especially the ones in college. They must understand the manner in which they're being financially *****. Are they anestitized? Or do they consider themselves to be fortunate to get a seat aboard with FS wagon with their $70,000 student loans? heh.

What a screwed up world.

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"Ammunition beats persuasion when you are looking for freedom." Will Rogers, 4 Nov 1879 - 15 Aug 1935

Aethor
Posts: 131
Incept: 2011-11-15
Green
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Noodleman wrote..
But I really don't understand why the kids aren't fighting back?

They don't because it would require organization and numbers...

There are no numbers because half of them don't understand the situation, a quarter or more thinks (probably correctly) they personally will be better off trying to earn some money than trying to start a revolution, and some of those who are both competent and willing to put in the effort, are working for the other side. Oh and there are some who either don't want to do anything, or go straight into crime.

Organization would require people willing to dedicate their entire lives to it, competent and at the same time ethical enough that they wouldn't twist its original purpose into something else. Yeah right, you'll find such. Genesis tried with the Liberal party, and we know how that worked out. I know of a number of organizations around the world with pretty much same issues.

Lacking either, in a "every man for himself" situation, trying to fight on your own... it just makes a royal mess out of your life.

And so they don't.

Also, as Lenin explained, it's easier to start a revolution where people are already so poor they don't have anything to lose. In the western world, people still have way too much to lose, so most of them will rather stick to that than turn their life upside down.

When it comes to where people don't have bread to eat and a place to sleep, they'll start fighting. Pity, really, because much more could be saved if they would start now. But that ain't gonna happen.



Bertdilbert
Posts: 2662
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In case nobody posted this recently, watch to the end....


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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!

Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
Bertdilbert
Posts: 2662
Incept: 2008-12-22
Gold
CA
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Quote:
But I really don't understand why the kids aren't fighting back?


1. Because the kids are not getting billed yet plus now they are getting extended unemployment. Nothing is going to happen until the benefits run out and they are just left with the bill. In addition some are able to hide in government money for school.

2. The battle is kids verses parents and grandparents who effectively stole from them by not standing up for the rights of the children and spending their future. This will be complicated because many kids will be forced to live with their parents due to high youth unemployment. Thus they will still need the support of the family. Not so lucky will be the parents that have to move in with their kids to survive in the coming years. They will be the first to get an earful of how they were cheated.

The parents that dined and ditched on their kids will find that their is no free lunch down the road.

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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!

Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
Bertdilbert
Posts: 2662
Incept: 2008-12-22
Gold
CA
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Quote:
All you stupid ****s here that say, "they will just print it" should shut up and find out what that mean. In fact, if we were face to face having that discussion, chances are you would find my hands around your throat.



Oh that is just too tempting... "They will just print it!" They will keep on printing because once they find they have a printing press they are going to print until the market pukes. If necessary, Bernanke will go with NEGATIVE interest rates to spur the economy with QE whatever it takes.

I view the above to be well grounded based on my observations over the last years, choking my neck will not change what they do. Rather than getting mad about it, understand the most likely course of action to be taken by government and position yourself accordingly.

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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!

Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
Vitchilo
Posts: 4626
Incept: 2011-04-27

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Bertdilbert : Obamabots response : but but but! A country is not like a family! A country can tax more and more and have unlimited credit!

They REALLY think Bondzilla is NEVER going to show up.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
Bertdilbert
Posts: 2662
Incept: 2008-12-22
Gold
CA
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Vitchilo,

Bondzilla is not going to show up since the Fed can purchase all they want. Inflationzilla might show up at some future point but as long as the Fed operates with unlimited buying capacity, bondzilla is out of the question.

The reason bondzilla is hitting Europe is because they are limited by treaty as to what they can do with separation of central banks and ability to fund deficits. Therefore they keep creating schemes to print more money.

Don't expect the Fed to change course until inflation is licking 4 or 5%. Forget stated inflation goals, they will side with "full employment" until it cracks.

----------
Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!

Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
Vitchilo
Posts: 4626
Incept: 2011-04-27

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I know that. Still, the FED just cannot raise their balance sheet forever... hyperinflation/unwind of positions will mean total chaos in the street. The FED has put itself in a corner it cannot get out of.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
Bertdilbert
Posts: 2662
Incept: 2008-12-22
Gold
CA
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Vitchilo, that is not necessarily true. The debt on the Fed balance sheet can be basically cleared with the stroke of a pen. None of that debt on the Fed balance sheet will ever see the light of day and compete against the government auctions and be allowed to negatively impact interest rates on debt issuance in any meaningful fashion. For now it serves it's purpose but thinking the Fed is in a box because of it is completely wrong.

----------
Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!

Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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