Quote:

( Yes it is sarc and if you cant figure that out then God help you and thank you for voting for Obama )

Hey, calm yourself! I *was* born blonde.

Quote:

(a) Number of Privately Owned Firearms: 270,000,000

(b) Number of Military Firearms: 3,054,553

(c) Number of Law Enforcement Firearms : 897,400

Now tell me what's wrong with this picture?

Those are nice numbers.
I like those odds.

bob

...sorry Nike, I couldn't resist...

Supercleanfund said: "Columbine had an armed guard."

Oh, you mean this one, the only "security officer" mentioned in this entire timeline? Emphasis mine:

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbi....

11:53 – 11:55

"A two-hour 911 phone call (from 11:29 a.m. to 1:24 p.m.) from a school secretary and a school security officer HIDING IN THE SCHOOL'S MAIN OFFICE reports shots fired in the office, into the ceiling and in the art hallway to the north."

Ah, that "security officer" while actually inside the school was apparently an unarmed one. The armed one was in the parking lot in his car eating lunch, watching the student smoking area, and BSing with another unarmed school security guard:

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbi....

"Gardner, seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the car and fired four shots. He was 60 yards from the gunman. Harris spun hard to the right and Gardner momentarily thought he had hit him. Seconds later, Harris began shooting again at the deputy.

After the exchange of gunfire, Harris ran back into the building. Gardner was able to get on the police radio and called for assistance from other Sheriff’s units. “Shots in the building. I need someone in the south lot with me.”

-----

Gardner did not pursue Harris or ever reenter the school during the shooting. And as was the policy in those days, cops waited for SWAT (nowadays they don't which is VERY smart; after all, they're paid to be in harm's way).

Quote:

Now tell me what's wrong with this picture?

Here's the same for Australia.

Private: 3,050,000
Military: 241,420
Law Enforcement: 61,211

So what exactly is your point? Here private ownership overwhelms military and law enforcement as well.

And add to that illegal firearms likely to be over a million in number. oh and total homicides didn't drop with the introduction of our tougher gun laws, they dropped many years after for some other reasons (gun deaths dropped, of course, but total homicides did not...people just find other weapons).

You're probably scared ****less now that you realise just how many guns there are in Australia despite our gun laws...

Poid, just curious can you buy ammo over the counter? Is it taxed out of reasonable price? Are there supply problems with it?

I think a combination of school defense solutions would be best. Allow teachers and administrators with CCW permits to carry at school, perhaps locked in a reinforced desk drawer or something as opposed to on the teacher's person.. The more guns in responsible hands the safer any location will be, but precautions need to be taken so that a gun can't simply be grabbed from an inattentive teacher.

That said, there will surely be schools where there are no volunteers, or the volunteers turn out to be cowards when faced with real danger etc, so the "fire one administrator, hire one guard" idea would be an important supplemental measure.

As for the "police state" concerns, any guards should be given authority ONLY to respond to violence, not to harass/intimidate students or enforce other school policies.

Quote:

(a) Number of Privately Owned Firearms: 270,000,000

(b) Number of Military Firearms: 3,054,553

(c) Number of Law Enforcement Firearms : 897,400

A. Private citizens: 304,000,000

B. Armed Forces Personnel: 3,000,000

C. Law Enforcement Officers: 794,000

These numbers look just about ideal for a country where some people aren't "more equal" than others.

Somebody mentioned the D.A.R.E. program in schools. That was the cop generated education program used to seemingly deter kids from using dope. Tremendously expensive. The cops were constantly beating their chests and telling us that they were winning the 'war on drugs'. It was mainly a 'show and tell' adventure where the kids got to ride in a patrol car and pet the drug dog 'Zeke'.

Several years after the program was implemented in my neck of the woods the teen and elementary school use of dope actually increased.

So it was a public safety employment enhancer that failed in both its primary and ultimate objective.

Putting cops on the school grounds is not the answer. It will push the taxpayer funded labor (pension) costs sky high and give the schools the appearance of East Germany 1970.

My vote goes to certifying qualified teachers as armed agents on campus and providing them with the authority to guard life (not property) and discharge the weapon when in fear of the loss of his (her) own life or the life of another faculty member or student. All special powers assigned to the teacher are suspended once he or she steps foot off campus.

I wasn't having a go at you guys, I was curious to find out your reaction to the numbers.

From your reactions I believe my initial thoughts about Americans being a frightened people might be close to the mark.

I could be very wrong but it seems you are afraid of your elected government and your fellow Americans.

I served in my country's military and quickly learned never carry a gun unless you were highly proficient with it and although I was considered a crack shot I have never had a gun in my hand since those days and have no reason to ever want to own one.

Anyway, it will be interesting to watch how your President handles this latest gun debate.

Cheers and lets hope whatever happens the deaths from firearms can be reduced.

I'm terrified of a world without BBQ.

Like many here. I like the idea of qualifying people already in the school to be able to defend it. The idea of a bunch of rent a cops or TSA like people being added to the school would be more PR than actually helping.

If cops or anyone is doing it, I'd like it CCW and dressed like anyone else working in the school.

Part of me almost likes the idea of cops (particularly the swat guys) to have to be rotated through.. like a week a year at a school doing this. Might help them to remember what protecting and serving is. Yeah.. I know.. that's WAY optimistic.

Quote:

I could be very wrong but it seems you are afraid of your elected government and your fellow Americans.

If I were afraid of my fellow Americans why would I want them all armed? I don't see your logic here..

I heard a radio show the other day where a retired cop said he'd be happy to spend time at a school for free, and said he knew a bunch of other retired cops who would do the same if it helped out.

Also saw the blurb about the retired Marine (in Texas?) standing out front in BDUs and was getting great feedback from parents.

Since it would appear that these nutbags that shoot up gun free zones puss out at the first sign of confrontation maybe the presence of anyone who looks like they'd be willing to die for some school kids might cause them to make a U-turn.

Luvs,
I don't live in fear. I distrust my government, yes. But most of my guns are just fun to shoot, and it's challenging to be good at it. It's challenging to play golf too, it just doesn't interest me in the same way.

NRA's solution is deplorable. They want MORE thug cops in schools already arresting grade-schoolers for writing on their desk. They want MORE police state.

Some schools are huge and already have police presence. By the time a policeman knows what's going on and gets from one end of campus to the other, a lot of people can get killed in the meantime.

Why not offer discount memberships to teachers? Why can't shooting ranges and shooting instructors offer discounts for teachers? Instead of trying to squeeze an already dry budget to hire more cops, why not give premium salaries to those teachers and administrators who have passed a shooting course and are willing to bring a firearm with them to school?

Be assured whatever Obama plan is introduced to deal with Sandyhook, it will include a mass of people that will start as unionized or be unionized down the road. You can pretty much bank on it. Obama revolves around union jobs.

Quote:

I think the NRA reads the Ticker

I got that feeling too when I watched the entire vid... And thank god that they are!

Same ole knee jerk reaction bull**** driving serious policy discussion and decisions.

Please enlighten me as to how modern man was able to kill and murder quite effectively
before the advent of the gun?

A Ninja can quickly kill lots of people with a sword and knife.

Yes, the Ninja must be in close proximity when killing with a sword and/or knife, but
not so with bow and arrow. Bows and arrows were and are very effective killing weapons.

Just making a point.

If efficient killing machines are the problem, then we need to get rid of all nuclear arms immediately.

Guns are not the problem...

Trigger fingers are the problem.

Luvs - Do you even READ the responses given to you?! Do you have any idea how foolish your assertion looks in light of the DATA presented outside your ridiculous argument of logical fallacy?

Actually, I'm thinking that half the people here ignore most of what you post because they don't want to bother wasting their time even responding at this point.

Yes, all those guns in the hands of private citizens are just so damn dangerous.

Pika, Luvs is baiting you.

A lot like Piers Morgan.

We, as American Citizens, open ourselves up to the World and this is what we get?

Isn't it funny that we were the the Main Dawgs in 1945 after defending the rest of the world?

But now we are relegated to apologizing for trying to maintain some kind of semblance in the world?

Hey...I'm bout ready to take my ball and go home.

We seem to be fighting a losing battle...

KD wrote..

The NRA finally discovered that their name -- National RIFLE Association -- means the support of people who want to keep and bear arms.

I dunno, Karl. I've read the transcript twice now. What I heard is them advocating more Statism. To wit:

Wayne LaPierre wrote..

I call on Congress today to act immediately, to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every school

What I did NOT hear from them is "We will fight any and all new restrictions on gun owners tooth and nail."

I made substantial contributions to SAF and GOA yesterday. Although I'm a life member of the NRA, they have not yet convinced me that they deserve a similar donation.

Jota wrote..

What does the GOA actually do?

They publish meaningful candidate ratings, for one thing. The NRA's candidate ratings are a sorry joke. Plus they take clowns like Piers Morgan to task on TV, something the NRA hasn't been willing to so so far.

-Uwe-

Tchoup wrote..

Question: If gun control laws are strengthened (which they will be), and the homicide rate drops dramatically the following year, will y'all admit that you were wrong?

Please show us the stats from a country where the overall homicide rate decreased significantly after strict gun control was imposed.

Tchoup wrote..

Or does the "without guns the government can put you into concentration camps" straw man trump all?

Why yes, in fact, it does. Have Nice Day.

-Uwe-

Uwe: Did you hear the second half with Asa? He was talking about this mostly being a volunteer effort.

It's not perfect, but it sure as hell is a damn sight better than saying "oh yeah, let's just ban some guns." **** that.

The big deal that Wayne hit on right up front is that the "gun free zone" crap is like putting a ****ing target on your chest. THAT **** has to stop; exactly how we stop it is something I'm happy to debate.

These jackasses are mostly pussies. Make it clear that the odds aren't so good they will get to pull their crap and it will stop immediately.

It's the same reason we don't have home invasions around here. There's a decent chance if you do it you're going to get instantly ventilated by the homeowner, and there's no way to know in advance whether the house you pick with that little old lady happens to also have a .44 Mag sitting in (or on!) the nightstand.

I'm not sending 'em any money, but this is the first intelligent thing I've heard out of the NRA in a good five years.

Let's just say that there were no guns in existence today.

Would there be no murders and killings?

Of course not.

Let's go a step further, and use your imagination.

Go back before even Cain and Abel.

Let's say you were a staunch atheist vegan during the dinosaur age and
Dino ate you.

Why did Dino not respect your Veganism?

Of course I'm messing with y'all but it's in good fun...

It's time to lighten up a little up in here...

Anyone catch the news tonight? What I saw on channel 5 - dateline/night line ( whatever) had a set-up of neutral or even semi-pro NRA, but the segment had a very clear gun ban stance... Surprised me...