DO NOT IGNORE THE POTENTIAL SMOKING GUN (CT SHOOTING)
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-12-18 11:44
by Karl Denninger
in 2ndAmendment
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DO NOT IGNORE THE POTENTIAL SMOKING GUN (CT SHOOTING)
 

And it is not gun laws, it is not "Aspergers."

If this is true, and we damn well deserve to know if it is, then it is a solid indication that this young man was schizophrenic, which is a condition that not only has a solid association with violence, it also has a solid association with all sorts of other not-nice things, like hearing voices telling you to kill people.  In fact the "hallmark" of schizophrenia is the inability to distinguish what is real from what is not.

Adam Lanza's mother had been increasingly concerned over her son's well-being in the weeks before the tragedy, telling a friend just a week before that he was "getting worse" and that "she was losing him," the New York Daily News reported. That report makes no mention of Asperger's syndrome, but it cites Adam's uncle who said he was taking an anti-psychotic drug called Fanapt. The Atlantic points out that several diagnoses have been bandied about in the press, including autism, Asperger's, and "personality disorder."

Many people may have missed this, and in fact I did until someone on the forum brought over the quote itself.  That drug is a relatively new one and in fact was the subject of a non-approvable letter originally.

The name caught my eye because I loosely follow biotech companies and remembered it from the denial back in 2008.  The FDA wanted another study and more safety data.  The company repackaged and resubmitted the previous study instead, which was a "Hail Mary" pass that almost-never succeeds.  In this case it did and the company's stock skyrocketed.

But this isn't so much about the drug itself as what it says about this young man, if in fact he was on the drug.  See, this drug, like all anti-psychotics, sometimes causes serious psychiatric side effects itself, including extreme aggression.

It also isn't indicated for anyone not under severe psychiatric stress -- and schizophrenia is pretty-much the 900lb gorilla of mental illness.

If this is real then we deserve to have this fact out in the open, in public, right damned now and all political activity associated with alleged "remedies" must stop until this allegation is fully vetted and either proved up or disproved, in public. 

If this is true there is no gun law that would have stopped this event; if he could not have gotten a gun he would have used a gallon of gasoline, a home-made bomb, a knife, something, anything.  We know he was willing to kill his own mother to acquire the weapons -- he would have killed a cop, a random person on the street, or a store clerk.

If this allegation is true this mass-murder was not about guns at all.

The point here, folks, is that there is simply no way to remove from society all of the tools and things that someone can use to commit murder, even mass-murder, if they have voices in their head telling them to kill people.

The only way to stop this tragedy, assuming this allegation is true, was to detect that this individual was delusional to the point of being dangerous and thus had to, at least temporarily, be institutionalized.

TO THE MEDIA, TO OUR POLITICIANS, TO YOU, DEAR READER: 

DEMAND THE TRUTH ON THIS, RIGHT NOW.  FULL-STOP ON THE POLITICAL BULL****.  IF THIS IS REPORT IS TRUTHFUL THEN WE MUST KNOW AND WE MUST FIX WHAT IS BROKEN IN OUR MENTAL HEALTH SYSTEM SO THAT THOSE WHO HAVE THIS DISORDER ARE, TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY, IDENTIFIED AND HELPED. 

BLAMING OR BANNING GUNS WILL NEITHER HELP OR ENHANCE PUBLIC SAFETY.  IN FACT THAT POLITICAL ACT WILL MAKE US ALL LESS SAFE SINCE IT WILL NOT STOP ONE ADDITIONAL PERSON WHO HEARS VOICES FROM TRYING TO KILL, BUT IT WILL PREVENT LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS FROM BEING ABLE TO DEFEND AGAINST THE PERSON WITH THE IMAGINARY VOICES IN THEIR HEAD.

Update: Fox News is claiming that as of this point there has been no medication recovered in the searches they have executed, and that they are using warrants to gain access to medical records that would provide evidence in this regard.

Update #2: It is now being reported by Fox News that the gunman's mother was going through the process necessary to have Adam committed.  Again, let's have the facts.....

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User Info DO NOT IGNORE THE POTENTIAL SMOKING GUN (CT SHOOTING) in forum [Market-Ticker]
Steph4liberty
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ABSO-FRICKEN-LUTELY! smiley

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Visualcsharp
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It's clear in any case that this was never about guns! The politicians and others clamoring for gun control know this! They are purposely ignoring the logic of the situation! They don't care whether the killer was normal or ****ed up. They only care about either satisfying their emotional fears about guns, killing and evil, or exercising control over the rest of us through gun control.

Agau
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So what do we have here?

80% plus of these high school murderers are the product of bad meds?

Can someone do a google on the names and "meds"?
Randy123
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These are such strong meds. And many of these kids start on them in their early teens which is hard to deal with to begin with.

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Asimov
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It's always about guns. What have you heard in the MSM about the two other mass killings that were stopped by concealed carry holders?

My SO was talking about this last night - she hadn't heard a word about the others.

And she won't.

They aren't interested in making people safer, they're ONLY interested in what is politically correct and will get them more votes in the next election.

As far as they're concerned, setting up shooting galleries where EVERYBODY knows there's no way to stop the shooter is the CORRECT thing to do.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.
If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
Asimov
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And yea, I'm TERRIBLY cynical about it.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.
If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
Mdporter
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Ban crazy people, not guns.

If you can't ban crazy people then there needs to be a process in place to remove them from society for their protection, and ours, until they can be rehabilitated or stabilized.

Downrange
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Thanks, linked and posted (with attribution).

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Wearedoomed
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Just what definition of crazy are we supposed to use? TPTB sure wouldn't mind the Soviet one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punitive_p....

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Noodleman
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This nation will never have a 'war on mental illness' like it has a 'war on drugs' because there is no money to be made on the former war. It would mean that society would actually have to care for those mental basketcases that you see sleeping like dogs in the doorways of shops and businesses or under freeways in most cities throughout this country. And that is expensive. Under the guise of 'freedom' they tell us that those mental derelicts have 'free choice' and can live their lives as they please. heh. But in their delusional states let them step out of line and violate societies laws - and they become one of the prisoners in American jails that make up a full 25% of the world's inmate population to feed the US prison industrial complex. So there ya go.

I don't hear anyone in congress talking about the ultra violent cartoons available to 4 and 5 year olds that are available on any US television set on any given Saturday morning which influence little minds that are in their MOST suseptible and influential stage of development. Ask any shrink if those violent cartoons have any impact on a toddler's behavior. Studies have been conducted that show a correlation.

So until they conduct a 'war on mental illness' like they prosecute the 'war on drugs' and drop the bull**** about the 'war on guns' I have zero faith that this congressional clowns will do the right thing. Face it, they want to stick their hands into your gun cabinet and confiscate your hardware. That is their only intention here. It's all about feeding off emotion and making hay while the sun shines while taking advantage of yet another tragedy.

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Themortgagedude
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But if the guns only had so many bullets it would have limited the number he was able to kill.

I'm in favor of the Barney Fife rule. From now on no guns may have more than one bullet.

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Rjazz117
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I honestly trust mental health officials less than I trust crazy people. Leaving the officials in charge has some very frightening implications for the future of our freedoms...especially when you consider the DSM-V.

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Themortgagedude
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Forgot to put the smiley tag in there.

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Winstonsmith2009
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Cerberus to sell stake in Bushmaster gun maker

http://news.yahoo.com/cerberus-sell-stak....

People individually - usually, nice to know.

People in unthinking herds - not priceless (and tend to wear armbands eventually)
Genesis
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That is true, but the fact of the matter is that if you're on these sorts of psychotropic meds then you have a decent risk of the drug causing extreme emotional swings - including rage.

In fact, it's documented that somewhere between 1-10% of those people who take the drug will exhibit this as a side effect.

That's VERY high odds when one considers the outcome of that side effect. Add that on top of someone "hearing voices" and what you think results?

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What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Uppity_peasant
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TMD wrote..
I'm in favor of the Barney Fife rule. From now on no guns may have more than one bullet.


Well, except for the government's OCMs* (the Vasili Blokhins of America, and their assistants). They are heroes, and deserve.

*Official Costumed Murderers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Blok....


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If it's true that "assault weapons" are "weapons of war" and don't belong on the streets of America, why do the police need them? Who are the police at war with?
Uppity_peasant
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The bull-headed peasants who desire to stay armed are probably going to get Delphied by the national press and the Obama administration (but I repeat myself)...

The Delphi Technique: Let’s Stop Being Manipulated!
http://www.vlrc.org/articles/110.html

===============

The Fanapt angle is going to be "reported" as much as the Nick Meli angle...

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If it's true that "assault weapons" are "weapons of war" and don't belong on the streets of America, why do the police need them? Who are the police at war with?

Reason: add Fanapt comment
Eaglewwit
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The local news just showed a picture of a bolt action .22 rifle that was found in a students home who threatened a teacher.

BIG ****ING DEAL. They make it out like it was a scary weapon, the media is so wrong in this country. And we are so ****ed in this country.
Musicandnature
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Agau, follows a link to another thread in the 'fedup' area.
The 8th post is by me and has a link to another story regarding fanapt.

http://tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-w....

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Obseedian
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Cops saying they found no evidence so far that he was on meds.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/pol....

Quote:
Authorities armed with search warrants are still working to obtain the 20-year-old man's medical records, according to the report. Lanza's parents told friends and divorce mediators that their son had Asperger's syndrome, a form of high-functioning autism, but it was unclear if he had ever been formally diagnosed.

Experts say Asperger's would not explain the horrific attack and believe Lanza, who killed his 52-year-old mother before going to the school, suffered other mental problems, including possible personality disorders.


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Genesis
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Yeah, Asperger's has no meaningful association with violence.

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What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Mrobe10586
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Does it occur to anyone else that these incidents seem to have been perpetrated by individuals who more than likely HAD access to medical care than not?

These occur in relatively well-to-do neighborhoods by children of well-to-do parents with ready access to "medical care" AND weapons--Columbine, Aurora and now this. These perpetrators were not homeless; they did not just stumble in off the street. These are children of highly placed EXECUTIVES and it is reasonable to assume that they were getting the mental health "treatment" that is the current "standard of care."

I gotta say, Gen, it took a couple of days but I think you're onto something here. It's the drugs.
Truthseeker
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Rjazz wrote..
I honestly trust mental health officials less than I trust crazy people. Leaving the officials in charge has some very frightening implications for the future of our freedoms...especially when you consider the DSM-V.


That is extremely perceptive of you, Randy. And right on point.

I worked very closely with the psych community from the early nineties until about six years ago. I was materially involved in the launch of more than half a dozen psychotropics. And I worked very closely over a period of six years with the authors of DSM III-R, in developing the diagnostic "tool" that eventually persuaded the vast majority of family practitioners that they had all the skill required to diagnose and treat major depressive disorder.

It was clear then, and has been increasingly clear in the years since, that psychiatric drug treatment has gone off the rails. The invention of "treatable mental conditions" has accelerated with every version of DSM, and fattened the wallets of not only big pharma, but of the thousands of physicians they've bought and paid for.

It has come at the expense of an entire generation of over-drugged youngsters, and, in the end, of our very freedoms.

There's very little about "medicine" going on here.

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"...But people better realize that the worst-case scenario could actually happen.9/11 happened. This can happen. An economic 9/11, the likes of which we've never seen." Gerald Celente
Drkshapiro
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Noodleman your post on top is excellent. I responded to your drug Hx on the one from yesterday. I enjoy that history.

KD, you know, or maybe not, there is no way to tell how a person will respond to a psych drug. Some fall asleep, some sit there shaking their legs up and down, or darting the tongue in and out, or just go ballistic.

But I wanted to comment on this: When I was last working in a clinic day-to-day it was around the time that the antipsychotics were first being used a lot off-label for dementia. What happens with dementia is that most go through an aggressive stage, and it's around the time that the person with dementia is forgetting the name of their spouse, so it's pretty hard on the caregiver. So they started to use risperidone mostly for that, such as 0.5 or 1 mg three times daily--(Fanapt is a re-designed risperidone.) It didn't work yet so many are now on them. And the FDA had this studied and concluded it doesn't work. YET they are still the primary drugs used for behavioral issues in dementia, in addition to drugs like Ativan. So in the course of looking at this they found that the use of antipsychotics in elderly increased the risk of stroke.

Now you have to counsel something like this (yes I realize this sounds totally nuts but here you go):
This drug was studied in patients with dementia, and it was not found to be particularly helpful. However, I hope it helps your husband. Using this drug for dementia increases the risk that he will have a stroke. Do you know the symptoms of stroke?

Now leave it to the old lady when her spouse falls on the floor and she has to drag him out by his feet to the car, or wait for EMT.

Crazy. So I wonder who should be taking these antipsychotics, really?

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Don't let a kid drink til they're 21, but let 'em go to other countries and kill people, that's alright. --G Celente
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