The "...government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion...", according to Article 11 of the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796, and passed by the United States Congress.

Article VI, Clause 2 of the U.S.A. Constitution states: "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land...".

This used to be a Funhouse
But now it's full of evil clowns
It's time to start the countdown
I'm gonna burn it down, down, down
I'm gonna burn it down

9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, fun

the big guy here has at times said there is no "or else" following the 'ye shall not' therefore they don't give a sh*t. Without guilt and shame there is bad behavior. Without hunger there is bad behavior. Without consequences there is bad behavior. failure is not a good thing but it is necessary.

I could see it 25 yrs ago when in the supermarket and some 6yr old is having a fit wanting mommy to buy some cookies, screaming and jumping around, and making shopping miserable for everyone in earshot. Mush-head mommy talks sweet and smiles, lets jr continue his behavior oblivious to all other shoppers, eventually gives in and puts the cookies in the shopping cart. Bingo, generation screwed I thought.

If you are a 0.001% gazillioneer who owns and controls a big piece of it all, do you really have any power whatsoever to smack that kid on the butt and say 'no cookies for you'? If you did they'd revolt en-mass and try to eat you thus creating a really big mess, so you placate the kids with iCookies knowing the vermin will remain manageable and you still have the power and gazillions.

I don't know the solution.

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EBT cards are one example. It used to be that if you were hungry you could go to a soup kitchen and stand in line for a bowl of soup and some donated (and usually stale) bread. It didn't taste all that good, but it was reasonably nutritious; it usually contained beans or some similar source of protein, and occasionally some small pieces of meat, all donated.

But you had to stand in line before the church or other place running the kitchen, effectively announcing "I'm poor."

We decided as a society that your self-esteem is more important, and thus we started issuing "food coupons." That (partially) hid your poverty. But even that was visible, so now it's done via what looks like an ordinary credit card -- but isn't.

Of course there are exceptions to this: if you're a taxpayer whose home was just scattered across the countryside by a tornado or washed away by 5 feet of ocean water that made its way thru your neighborhood during a hurricane, well then it's quite OK for YOU to wait in line....Wait in line for food from a private charity...Wait in line to file a FEMA claim... Wait in line for a hot shower provided by a private charity...

But if you're a lifelong welfare recpient, well those lines are beneath you.

Heisen, the republicanism they were speaking of in late 1700s/early 1800 is not the one currently practiced by most of said name.

The quotes of John Adams were prescient that's for sure. I wonder how many outside of TF community could read that w/o their brains short-circuiting ?
There were some smart folks around when the Constiution was written.
I bet the collective IQ was 3x current congress; and as you say there was morality and thus wisdom imparted to them.

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I think its all about simple pleasures and the time with my dog is one of my most precious.

Well said, Karl. If I could "upvote" this ticker, I would.

KD wrote..

I am getting very close to "reduce, pull in horns, find small pleasures and disregard the rest" as a life choice. Such will not be a small change for me, but it's one I can make.

If the "fiscal cliff" happens it looks like, for the first time in my life, I'll be subject to the AMT. Yippee, I suppose - I'm now officially "rich".

I'm also hopeful that will be the last straw for Mrs. DocJ to finally realize what I've been saying for 3-years now - which is that as we're looking around the poker table and not sure who is the mark, then it's US - and that it's time to "lower our economic footprint" to the minimum possible. I've been doing what I can behind the scenes, but I'm finding it's really, really hard to do it for real if your spouse isn't on board.

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the republicanism they were speaking of in late 1700s/early 1800 is not the one currently practiced by most of said name.

Exactly..."republicans" from that area are more closely associated with libertarians today, if not exactly what they would be.

When the Berlin Wall fell and the USSR collapsed, people thought collectivism had lost and capitalism had won. One observer even declared "the end of history," with democracy and free markets ruling the roost. Wrong, buckaroo. Whoever owns education owns the future, and the collectivists have owned the educational establishment since before FDR without a hiccup. They graduate fresh cohorts every year, nowadays known as "Obama voters"...



pdf: http://www.politicalcity.biz/wp-content/....

It's ALL corrupt from the very bottom to the very top, and all levels in between.

It's a cycle - you start from scratch after a big crash/war and then psychopaths are escalated into position of power where the corrupt everything they touch - and the stupid elevate these people because they LOVE THE LIES THEY ARE TOLD - they can't get enough of them. The FSA 'elects' these people into positions of power IRRESPECTIVE of political party.

You think Reagan was honest ? Even remotely honest ? How about LBJ or Clinton ? Lying sacks of ****, all of them. And the peasants lap it up because they get free **** for supporting the psychopaths rise to power. As long as they play the game, get with the program then the gravy train rides on. And the truth tellers, the whistleblowers, the people who point out the obvious problems with the system ? Jail. Ignominy. Sometimes death. That's the reward for being honest, forthright.

Even on this forum it gets lapped up - like monkeys in manpants. Romney would have fixed it. You betcha. Romney and Obama are classic psychopaths - no one OTHER than a psychopath would even consider a job like that. Ultimate power destined for total collapse. Get while the gettin's good.

****ing idiots - all of you who support them.

And it goes all the way down the chain. 99 percent of corporate management is psychopaths - it BREEDS them like rats. They claw over each other, climbing to the very top of the pile where they can destroy all they touch. Dimon, Buffett, Corzine - all of them classic psychopaths.

And then the whole system goes critical - full of corruption from the very bottom to the very top it all collapses, and if the Fourth Turning is correct, it does it on a semi-predictable cycle.

And then everyone goes, well, it couldn't be predicted. No one could have known. It's not MY fault.

Bull****.

It's almost 2013. Think of it as 1933 - 80 years ago. Sometime in the next 3 or 4 years, some primo psychopath is going to do the 21st century equivalent of annexing the Sudetenland and we will be off to the races. And the psychopaths will lead the FSA, all of them, from the food stampers, to the corporate welfare types, the big ag *****s, and the mil-industrial war machine right off the cliff.

And 'the people' will dust off their uniforms, their 'patriotism' and cheer their own total destruction.

Who am I to stop them from having their fun ?

I posted the founders' quotes in response to the "government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion" to argue that even though the US was not founded as a Theocracy or a "Christian Republic", the founders themselves were Christians; religious and moral men. I concur that the references to republican or republicanism were referring to the type of government that they were founding, not the Republican political party. I think they meant that their free society could only function as long as the citizens were moral people. I think they were prescient. Our society is in decay and seems to get worse all the time. And I think the title of this thread is correct.

Some were Christians, some were not. They were all white men too. They all probably wore wigs.

Sometimes you just judge people on their actions and not their characteristics.

The House voted 396-9 to keep "In God We Trust" as the slogan of the USA, thanks 1950s insanity.

I'm pretty sure a lot of the 396 would be defined as pretty ****ty Christians, or at least pretty ****ty people, certainly not the "moral" type.

Great ticker Karl as I also believe this is the root of our problems in America. But not to worry, Bankster in Chief is going to fix everything:

"We are one decision away from restoring our fiscal and moral authority from around the world," Dimon said at the New York Times Dealbook Opportunities for Tomorrow conference in New York. "Let's just do it."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/lets-just-....

Not sure whether to or

Heisenberg wrote..

... the founders themselves were Christians; ...

The question then becomes what definition of "Christians" is being referred to.

Thomas Jefferson considered himself to be a "real Christian" but Thomas Jefferson's definition of a "real Christian" is different than many other people's definition of a "real Christian". Thomas Jefferson was a disciple of the doctrines of the Jesus of the Jefferson Bible
( http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBib.... ) but not a disciple of the doctrines of the Jesus of the King James Bible.

Thomas Jefferson denied the divinity of Jesus Christ and the miracles that Jesus Christ performed as recorded in the King James Bible.

Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter ( http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/presidents/tho.... ) that the following are "artificial systems" "invented by ultra-Christian sects, unauthorized by a single word ever uttered by him" (Jesus of Nazareth): "The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity; original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of Hierarchy".

"In fact, these 257,576 people in Detroit who do not have a job and are not looking for one outnumber the 224,846 residents who do have jobs. But of the 224,846 residents who do have jobs, 34,500 — or 15.3 percent — have jobs with the government. Thus, this city that boasted 1,849,568 residents in 1950 has only 190,346 private-sector workers today.

There are 264,209 households in Detroit, and 91,204 of them — or 34.5 percent — get food stamps."

Source: http://cnsnews.com/blog/terence-p-jeffre....

Assuming no gov't employee recieves FS, up to 47% of households are sucking off gov't tit in Detroit(91,204+34,500=125,704; 125,704/264,209).

That's means for every person being productive there is about one person eating that production. (Real output is most likely zero or less)

Okay Dp, Jefferson is everyone's favorite deist.

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The question then becomes what definition of "Christians" is being referred to.

The majority of the signers of DofI were Christians of some Protestant denomination. I don't know if it was recorded whether any of them were 5 Point Calvinists or their position on sola fide.

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The question then becomes what definition of "Christians" is being referred to.

It is often confusing as to whether someone who claims to be a "Christian" claims to be a follower of some deist or non-deist version of "Jesus Christ" who did not or did work miracles, etc. In the U.S.A., there has also been language confusion created in definitions of other words such as "marriage" and "dollar". Babylon (or Babel) means "confusion (by mixing)".

I like the fact you are holding the citizens responsible, Karl.

I firmly believe, with good evidence, that we have a citizen problem, not a politician or a party problem.

And we have a systemic law problem: the laws adhered to for 200 years are not adhered to any more.

Plato observed the behavior of unrestrained democracy 2400 years ago:

"....In their ignorance they tend to vote for politicians who beguile them with appearances and nebulous talk, and they inevitably find themselves at the mercy of administrations and conditions over which they have no control because they do not understand what is happening around them. They are guided by unreliable emotions more than by careful analysis, and they are lured into adventurous wars and victimized by costly defeats that could have been entirely avoided." - Plato

None of this will be fixed by popular vote. Mobs don't do that.

It has to be fixed by the courts, the military stepping in, or a revolt.