"I am getting very close to "reduce, pull in horns, find small pleasures and disregard the rest" as a life choice. Such will not be a small change for me, but it's one I can make.
"

does that mean no tickers when we get to that point?

Pretty bad when the producers are worse off then the takers

Cash value of welfare spending to households in poverty greater than median household income

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/07/cash-v....

'Welfare Spending Equates to $168 Per Day for Every Household in Poverty'

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/welf....

This isn't really the point of this ticker, but as we are talking about morality and as many confuse this with religion....
I'd like to add I hope that the smart tickers here use their own good judgement about what is moral and not rely on an appointed, often self-appointed, jurist. I'd trust most here with that judgment call but not someone who thinks they're appointed by god. That person I'd give an antipsychotic.

You can find the most decent person in one who doesn't profess to any religion at all.

Every religion seems to think god picked them: The Jewish people are "chosen", the Christians, if they are baptized, get to go upstairs and the Mormons get to float up to their special place in heaven that's like the Penthouse level. Wow, what happens: you get to the door and get sorted?

I have nothing against religious people, whatever makes you happy, go for it, but it is annoying when someone tries to push their stuff on you, including, of course, my own relatives.

I find it distasteful (just dumb, I guess) these folks who like to repeat these phrases that mean nothing to them, mostly. I grew up learning Hebrew prayers and I have NO IDEA what they mean, by and large. And I didn't start smoking in Hebrew School until high school. You have to UNDERSTAND what you are doing, or at least admit you have no clue and say you are okay with that. At least, be honest. Everyone has a right to do what they like, just not push it on others or say what someone else is into isn't as good as yours.

"At least, be honest. Everyone has a right to do what they like, just not push it on others or say what someone else is into isn't as good as yours. "

Was with you all the way until this point. I believe in truth and gradation in gooness. The difference I am not going to try and force you to believe or do what I do. THAT is the underlying difference.

'The Real Problem With America: Morality'

When we venerate guys like Charlie "Suck it up & cope" Munger and Warren "Invest before bailout" Buffet, allow Hank "TARP or Tank in the streets" Paulson, Tim "Tax Cheat" Geithner, Ben "Economic Hitler" Bernanke to give speeches and do as they please in the guise of helping the average citizen, you can bet that Morality has hit bottom. When we do not demand that that Banksters go to jail, it means Morality has hit bottom. When we allow Corzines of this world to get away, banksters to manipulate LIBOR and everything else they like to and allow them to get away without a jail term, Morality has hit the bottom.

Gen, I agree this is real problem of America

Morality is being transferred to the state. Look at how they treated each other in Russia or East Germany, constant distrust, snitching, fear, jealousy, apathy, etc. People were dehumanized. I heard a story about how when ever you ask an East German how they are all you will hear is complaints. If they said "good" people would wonder why and become jealous and snitch to the stasi.

Now I am noticing this with Americans today. People saying they don't give to charity anymore, "why should I give to charity when Obama hands out my money like candy?". Same with the left, "I don't need to worry about helping this person, the state will do it surely". A decohesion of society, any sense of community or kinship being transferred to this monolithic secular state which dilutes it down to a completely impersonal and inhuman level.

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I heard a story about how when ever you ask an East German how they are all you will hear is complaints. If they said "good" people would wonder why and become jealous and snitch to the stasi.

I can confirm this as absolutely true. It was exactly the same in former Czechoslovakia. In fact, even just a few years ago, I had to change my line of thinking. Asking "How's it going?" is a stupid question there, especially when you're talking to somebody who has lived through the old communism, as they'll start about how this hurts, and that sucks, etc, etc...it's so hard to say "I don't really care! I was asking to be polite!"

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People saying they don't give to charity anymore

Yup...I donate my time to the Red Cross, some of that is because I'm "voluntold" to do so by my wife who works there, but I will never donate money while I have my money stolen from me by the gov.

Gotta love the timing of this discussion as I just finished a paper on the Book of Amos

It's kind of difficult to have a country in which people are moral with regard to financial matters, when few people in this country admire or respect anything but money--regardless of how it was obtained.

It will be a cold day in hell when you hear honesty and morality in financial and business matters preached from the pulpit--probably because a good proportion of any "respectable" congregation is on the take, one way or another.

It's long been the common practice to evaluate respectability and personal worth entirely in terms of money. It's been like that down through the ages, when you come right down to it.

Morality and its role in maintaining a functioning society is a complex issue. Much of what we tend to ascribe to a recent moral failing, is merely the current exposure of what has been a part of our culture for many years. We should all question whether there is a growing morality problem, or merely a growing awareness of a problem that has long dogged us. Further, there is an element of 'America' that celebrates what many would term immorality. I am speaking of the perspective that cheating is virtuous. "There is a sucker born every minute," kind of thinking. This is not merely a FSA phenomenon, it permeates the highest echelons of our culture. Please read about the Magnetar and Aurora sub-prime CDO trades, the trades that made John Paulson billions. Was selling sure-to-fail CDOs to pension funds illegal. Nope. Was it ethical? Only in America, my friends, only in America. When pointing out unethical behavior, it is always best to be standing in front of a mirror.

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Was selling sure-to-fail CDOs to pension funds illegal. Nope.

It is if you represent that they are not.

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It's kind of difficult to have a country in which people are moral with regard to financial matters, when few people in this country admire or respect anything but money--regardless of how it was obtained.

Of course, "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil." That comes from a Hebrew man writing almost 2,000 years ago. Whether you regard those writings as inspired or not, it's still true. Greed is at the root of many of the problems in our society.

We had a city councilman popped for DUI. He was always so outspoken about protecting the children, severe punishment of criminals who endanger others and about the evils of medical marijuana. After getting popped he showed up to the next Council meeting just as cocky as ever. No apologies whatsoever for his behavior. In his booking photo he appears three sheets to the wind.

The moral code is gone. Whatever feels good at the moment is where it's at. Evil rules. All signs of an empire on it's last legs.

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Was selling sure-to-fail CDOs to pension funds illegal. Nope.

It is if you represent that they are not.

I am not so sure. It is my understanding that one can hide counterparty risk - in fact, in Magnetar and Aurora, that hiding was part of the model. I believe the legality turns on the question of the sophistication of the buyer. If you are a billion dollar pension fund, you are supposed to be sophisticated. I really am not arguing with you here. Magnetar should have been illegal and its proponents should have been arrested, charged, and prosecuted. I am merely pointing out that in America, both the idle rich and the FSA engage in immoral behaviors with impunity.

Karl I think you are spot on about moral decay, but I don’t think we can fix it that way. The reason being, everybody seems to forget that when the Government started to ignore the Constitution, we changed from a democratic republic to a democratic socialist state. There is no way WITHIN the current system in which we live to change it back again. There is also no way to hide from it while at the same time being a part of it. I am not saying that to stop feeding the beast doesn’t have it’s rewards, what I am saying though, is the changes people will have to make in their lives will come harder for many of them. I would venture a guess that for most it will seem downright impossible.
You are asking people to give up their home, their toys, car boat, quads, jet skies, weekends in Vegas, dinners out, movies, night clubs, or bowling with their friends. In exchange for a cabin in the country and living off the land. Sounds tempting for some but horrible for the majority. However for most this is not even an option at all. They are underwater on their mortgage making payments on their car and are buying Christmas presents on their overloaded credit cards. So even if they gave all that up today, they would be living in a tent in the woods eating whatever they could outsmart. And don’t forget those that have medical issues, and are dependant on the system to keep them alive.
We have to face facts here, most producers depend on the system as broken as it is, in order to live their lives the way they want to. The only way this changes is if the system will no longer afford them that luxury. As this forum has repeatedly laid out time and time again the math clearly says this is an inevitability. But the reality of life says that until that day comes nothing will change. But when that day comes no one will be immune to the horrific mess things will be in. During the last great depression most people were self sufficient. Hell you could leave the keys in your car and your front door unlocked. The exact opposite is true now. As this thread is about moral decay I think we must except that, that fact alone is why we are all ****ed no matter what we do. Just keep in mind that cabin in the country will be overrun like a swarm of locusts especially if the producer is successful.

Mpillar, Kwerk -

the answers to "how are you" which you heard in E. Europe have nothing to do with their state or history, for most. Simply how I am doing is none of your business, unless you are my relative. Hence the answer - they are just being polite to you. Instead of telling you to **** off they complain a little. They also hate smalltalk and all this "being polite" talk for the sake of talking stuff.

P.S. I am from E. Europe myself.

We should thank Bernanke and Geithner for saving the Economy. Didn't you hear?

http://www.businessinsider.com/thank-you....

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Was selling sure-to-fail CDOs to pension funds illegal. Nope.

It is if you represent that they are not.

Legality is now a sliding scale, with the measures of it dependent upon the amount of the theft, the status and resources of the thief, and the recipient of the plunder.

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I'm there too. I've been "semi-retired" for 4 years. I say semi-retired because I could never really retire. I enjoy working whether it is with my brain or out in the garden. But now it's on my terms. Every year since I left full-time work, I've worked at reducing my expenses. I spend 25% less per month than I did even 6 years ago. That doesn't include inflation or paying off any large debt because I had none.

I know what you mean about morals. The mayor of Newark is supposedly living on $4 per day to show how "difficult" it is to do. He's eating an apple for breakfast, sweet potato for lunch, and a vegetarian casserole for dinner. Give me a break. $134 per month per person is plenty. We spend $150 per person per month for my family and we do not shop exclusively shop at Walmart. I just read a 2012 book by a women who feeds her family of four on $250 per day and she doesn't use coupons.

We spend the majority of our food bill is spent at Trader Joe's. That amount includes coffee (4.99 per 14 oz at TJs), snacks, and eating out once per month. We eat meat (mostly poultry) and not every day for health and to save money. We buy lots of nuts and dried fruit for snacks. If we eliminated the coffee, junk food snacks, and eating out, we could easily lower our bill to $134 per month or less per person. It's ridiculous to think we should increase this amount for food stamps. Why should I pay for someone to spend more on groceries than my own family?

Actually the Mayor is trying to prove the Food Stamp amount shouldn't be decreased by showing that the current amount is not enough. Here's a link.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/....

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That's true -- a friend of mine's dog eats cat**** on a regular basis.

Funny my dog used to eat Horse Poop and cigarette buts. But of course she was a stray puppy and now lives a spoiled dog lifestyle and luckily her tastes have changed.

I am about ready to call it quits in this immoral society. I only see jackals getting ahead, either unable to do actual arithmetic or able and keeping up the lies. I think its all about simple pleasures and the time with my dog is one of my most precious.

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Hey I have tried clicking on the link re limited html and it doesn't seem to go anywhere. Where can I learn which limited html is allowed. I would like to be able to format my responses. Or do I have to donate to get basic html?

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(Include brackets, get rid of the spaces.)

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@Captiankidd Wouldn't you know it I clicked on the link after posting and it worked. Figured it out. Feeling less retarded now.

My dog ate carpet once. Cost me $2,000! Fam wouldn't let me put a bullet in its head and bury it in the back garden.

What is so hard about right and wrong?!

When the population outstrips available productive work, people get like this.

There were all sorts of admonishens by the clergy about the immoral behavior of people in western Europe right before the plague struck in the 1300's. Nothing afterwards.

The only real solution is mass death. And before everyone says that another 7 billion can easily be added to the population, just ask yourself what work they're going to do and are you willing to support them as layabouts.