Oh Look, Another Scam! (Greece And More)
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-11-27 06:41
by Karl Denninger
in Editorial
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Oh Look, Another Scam! (Greece And More)
 

Time to smiley again at the idiocy displayed by so-called "technocrats":

European finance ministers eased the terms on emergency aid for Greece, declaring after three years of false starts that Europe has found the formula for nursing the debt-stricken country back to health.

In the latest bid to keep the 17-nation euro intact, the ministers cut the rates on bailout loans, suspended interest payments for a decade, gave Greece more time to repay and engineered a Greek bond buyback. The country was also cleared to receive a 34.4 billion-euro ($44.7 billion) loan installment in December. Greek bonds rose and the euro reached a three-week high on the accord.

See?  All have to do is pull out a hand grenade and threaten to pull the pin!  Even though doing so would blow you to bits along with everyone in the room you'll get whatever you demand as nobody has the balls to call the bluff.

“This has been a very difficult deal,” Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker told reporters in Brussels after chairing a 13-hour meeting that ended early today. “All initiatives decided upon today will bring Greece’s public debt clearly back on a sustainable path.”

How do you know Luncker, uh, Juncker, is lying?

That's simple: His lips are moving.

There is no realistic way for Greece to pay what it owes.  This means that the only real solution is for it to default, but that's unacceptable because it means people have to take losses, and a large chunk of those losses would fall in places that can't take losses -- like the ECB.

"Official" losses would destroy credibility in the capital base of these institutions, including the ECB.  That in turn could (and probably would) provoke capital flight, which would instantly destroy the ability of the ECB to "manage" interest rates and possibly even impair its ability to clear transactions.

That's the real problem in a nutshell -- the ECB and IMF made loans that they should have never made, all under the premise that "the Euro is inviolate." 

Such a declaration is functionally identical to declaring that the crazy aunt you have who is drug-addicted and steals anything that isn't nailed down cannot be ejected from your home and is an "inviolate" part of your household, despite the fact that she's draining you to the tune of over $1,000 a month in "stuff" that's being pawned off to feed her habit!

You either cut that crap out or you're (eventually) hosed.

More-ominously the Shanghai stock market broke a key technical level last night, declining into territory last seen in 2009.  While we're not yet at the nadir seen in '08, the Shanghai market is threatening to head there -- another ~30% down from here.  There are some rather troubling analogues between China and Japan's Nikkei all-time top, and the premise that China will continue to be in a position to power the debt-financing games that it has over the last decade or so looks to be on increasingly-shaky ground.

But the largest problem today is here in the United States.  There is no realistic outcome given the positions of the Republican and Democrat parties in Washington today.  The simple fact of the matter is that we have gotten to the point where we're spending 30+% more than the government taxes through both parties, and to correct that both parties are going to have to accept that government simply cannot provide services that the people will not fund with current taxes.

That sounds easy, but it isn't for two reasons: The ridiculous monopoly-style ramp-job in medical spending and the penchant for both political parties to lie about economic growth through the deficit spending of the last two decades.

In short $600 billion in deficit spending creates $600 billion in demand that otherwise does not exist in the economy.  So is $1.3 trillion in deficit spending.  The former was about 6% of GDP at the time (Bush's Presidency) and the latter is about 8% of GDP, which are huge numbers.

Cessation of that spending is not just a political problem with the handouts that won't happen, or with the lobbyists that will get told to stuff it, particularly in the health care arena.  It is also a matter of admitting that we've been covering up a terrible economy for more than 10 years through these manipulations and that we must both accept reality and vow to sin no more.

Two words you'll never hear in Washington DC make this very difficult: "I lied."

But a refusal to tell the truth doesn't change anything -- it just makes you a serial liar, and arithmetic always eventually asserts itself.  The bad news is that economic damage such as this compounds over time, and as such what was a 10% problem in 2000 turned into a 20% one in 2007 and now is approaching a 40% problem (in terms of government spending reductions) that are required to restore balance.

I'm sure you can figure out from that progression what happens if we don't cut the crap, and soon.

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User Info Oh Look, Another Scam! (Greece And More) in forum [Market-Ticker]
Themortgagedude
Posts: 8843
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saint louis
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Print the money to pay off all Greek debt and cut them loose.

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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
Zappafan
Posts: 1789
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Green
Atlanta
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When so many succumb to mass delusion and refuse to see reality staring them in the face, it's at least a little comforting to find some sanity here in this little corner of the web. It's getting a bit lonely being a reality-based carbon life form. Lately listening to any kind of mainstream media is becoming too much for me to bear. It's literally nauseating watching the stooges on CNBC.

Can-kicking is all they've got left now. Greece, the fiscal crap going on here in the US, China.

I fully expect they'll kick the can until that 40% becomes 80%. Some exogenous force is going to have to force the hand of Boehner, Pelosi, Obama and all the other cretins that inhabit the lunatic asylum also known as Capitol Hill. No doubt their plan is to be long gone when it does.

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The alternative to not borrowing from a counterfeiting cartel is to be priced
out by those who do
Zarathustra
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Silver A True American Patriot!
Funkytown
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Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

inline

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"And in knowing that you know nothing, that makes you the smartest of all." - Socrates
Vitchilo
Posts: 4574
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Epic. Now just print the same debt contract a few times and change the name at the top... Portugal, Spain, Italy and others will need it!

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
Glennb6
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ne florida
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I swear about two weeks ago I read on some economic website (not here) that Greek territory was sitting on a very large amt of oil and nat gas deposits, like enough to sell and pay off their debts and have change.
Glennb6
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ne florida
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hmm, yes, google greece and oil reserves

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_art....

and more
Curbyourrisk
Posts: 3587
Incept: 2008-08-19

Farmingdale, NY
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NOTHING MORE THAN A HUGE GIANT PIK NOTE.

The ****ing end just gets bigger and bigger.

Guess what....at some point that end detonates.

I sure the **** don;t want to be around when it does.

Unfortunately all of our kids will be ducking and covering from this end note.

**** all of those Euro-crat dunces that sign off on this. I hope the all EABODADIAF.

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Time is up.

I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no Santa Claus, the tooth fairy does not exist and American justice does not involve the courts.
Bertdilbert
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CA
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Wait, I thought Greece had hard debt to GDP targets to make, something like 120% by 2020. Suspending interest payments for a decade does not move you closer to the target... And who is supposed to buy the existing debt when it rolls?

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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!

Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
Jubber
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Italy and Spain just went red

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“The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people’s money.” Thatcher
Jubber
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UK
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& France

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“The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people’s money.” Thatcher
Sean
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Quote:
I'm sure you can figure out from that progression what happens if we don't cut the crap, and soon.


I'm sure you can figure out from that progression what happens if when we don't cut the crap, and soon.

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* I think Ann Barnhardt is more and more right. God help us!
* Progressives / Marxists / Communists are many things, STUPID and IMPATIENT are not two of them.
* A hot civil war is coming.
* And people wonder why I prep!

Mortgageguymn
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According to our president, the most important thing is that we not raise taxes on incomes <$250,000 - you know, the people from whom additional tax revenue would actually matter as a percentage of the deficit.
Checkthisout
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Cary, NC
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The book 'This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly' shows how defaults are the norm, not the exception. We are not too powerful or special to avoid the inevitable, it's only a matter of time.

The big question is how will it happen, fast or slow, now or later?

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There are no gun free zones where free men tread.
Oldpool
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LI NY
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And the United States also went Red.

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Liberty, Comrade!
Jal
Posts: 512
Incept: 2009-03-25

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This time, its diferent. We have instantaneous communication among an educated financial, audience that can see what JP Morgan is doing to try to save itself.

If Greece, etc. cannot pay back the money it borrowed, then the lender has inherited the problem.

The lenders will find a way of not paying off their investors or the entitled payment receivers.

In 20 years, The investors will be dead of old age and the printing press will declare a forgiveness.

Therefore, the money that was lent out will not need to be paid back.
If there is a problem, JP Morgan will change the laws.


Ladyliberty
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Wisconsin
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You do know who is going to have to pay don't you? (PONY UP SUCKERS)

Your tax money is about to be blown in Greece

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-ta....
Mikek31
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Chicago
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Damn. Now anybody with money and a head on their shoulders knows for sure what the game is: can't bet against a central bank. Now every damn country will be fighting to get in line at the trough. Nice precedent to set. You know we're getting close to the end of this **** when they have to keep moving the goalposts further each time. Like exponentially further.

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Everyone keeps looking at the system and saying "it's not working, it needs to be redesigned somehow." It's working exactly the way the people who own it intend it to work.-Sutluc

Mannfm11
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kd wrote..
Cessation of that spending is not just a political problem with the handouts that won't happen, or with the lobbyists that will get told to stuff it, particularly in the health care arena. It is also a matter of admitting that we've been covering up a terrible economy for more than 10 years through these manipulations and that we must both accept reality and vow to sin no more.


So the post graduate Ivy League employment program of good old boys network will end? What will these kids do if they can't line up at the government trough? Go to Wall Street? Isn't the deficit a finacing program for Wall Street?

The real key isn't just that demand is supported by deficit spending, but resources in general are acquired with borrowed money and not available for use to the private sector. Plus, this is crony capitalism, as described in the previous paragraph at its best. The problem isn't taxes on the rich. It is taxes on the productive rich to the benefit of the connected rich.

Who are the connected rich? I would start with the medical industry. Not the doctors. I feel for the doctors, who go through a decade of torture to enter their business, coming out quite often deep in debt. It is the banks that finance the business. The scams such as MRI's and CT scans. The pills peddled in hospitals at 50 times their cost (aren't you supposed to get serivce when you pay $1000 a day for a hospital bed?). The pharmacy industry in general, including the education system of pharmacy techs who get paid like maids at best. The arms dealers, the paving contractors, the multinational poison food companies and landlords, who funnel more money to the bankers.

Mom has leukemia. Those who haven't been around a debilitating illness such as this, you would be shocked who shows up at your door with goods paid for by Medicare. Remember the power chairs advertised on TV, paid for by Medicare? It is a money pot. Some of this stuff should clearly be Medicaid, on loan to boot, while the consumer who can pay should have to request and pay for this stuff. Is this to benefit the patient or the operations lined up like buzzards at the single payer trough?

As far as Greece goes, we are looking at a modified default It is a joke. The problem with Greece isn't merely the debt, but the fact the country can't operate without borrowing more money. If they could, they would have simply defaulted. But, they can't bail out their own banks, so they would have had to decree the debts of banks in some worthless paper and their citizens would have revolted. Pay pensions out of what? We are headed there ourselves. They are there, pay attention.

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Genesis
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Oh you get serviced all right...

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Mannfm11
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DFW, Tx
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KD, it seems a lot of the posters here are oblivious to the idea that a CB can go broke. I wonder what bonds are worth that bear no interest on what is a defunct debtor? What could the ECB sell to pull in money should there be a run on the Euro? Not the nonsense they have put out there. The Fed is the picture of financial health against the ECB. Collateral is the thing paper money has behind it. Bennie and the Jets are at least buying houses. I guess the ECB is as well, in Ireland and Spain.

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Genesis
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Yep.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Apotheoun
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MN
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"Bennie and the Jets are at least buying houses. I guess the ECB is as well, in Ireland and Spain."

yeah, but when there was fraud and they dont have the actual deed... oh wait they actually dont have anything either.

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"when despair is all you can see, the end is finally near."
"Because there is some good left in this world, AND ITS WORTH FIGHTING FOR!"
Apotheoun
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"Bennie and the Jets"

oh and I wanted to personally thank you for getting that darn song stuck in my head.

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"when despair is all you can see, the end is finally near."
"Because there is some good left in this world, AND ITS WORTH FIGHTING FOR!"
Smacktle
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Goodbye yellow brick road....

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The faults of the burglar are the qualities of the financier.
- George Bernard Shaw
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