Facebook: Keep Buying Suckers...
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-11-26 09:48
by Karl Denninger
in Company Specific
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Facebook: Keep Buying Suckers...
 

In the conflicted territory today we have the tale of divergences on Facebook.  First, let's dispose of the "bullish" side -- they got a couple of upgrades today, and people are buying (again) into the hype.

Next, let's look at the bearish side, which is all about numbers from Janet Tavakoli, one of my favorites when it comes to numbers (in other words she actually knows how to add), and since she's not a sell-side sort.....

Janet's primary points are that one has no way to know how many cats and dogs have "profiles" and thus the alleged daily users and such are a black hole, and in addition there's a problem with deceleration in user growth (this is commonly known as "saturation", and those who disbelieve it are those who believe that trees grow through the sky and to the moon.)

But my comment for the day is what I've noticed on the mobile application -- the intrusiveness of ads, which to me smacks of desperation.

Not long ago the top of their mobile app started displaying "Pages You May Like", which they claim are pages that others who are my friends did like.  Well, ok, maybe (how do I verify that?)  But more-recently they started sticking sponsored ads in front of that page, which now meant that the first two "screen worths" of content I saw on the mobile app were not user updates but rather were generated by them in the form of advertising.

Anyone who does advertising knows that there is a limit to how much you can shove in front of people before they turn you off.  The challenge for advertising-supported media is to dance as close to that line as possible without stepping over it; the closer you can get without going over the more money you make.

If you go over it, however, you're in serious trouble as the consequence is usually a dramatic (and sometimes irreversible) loss of customer eyeballs.

Facebook has crossed that line for me on their mobile application.  Thus far they have not on the desktop.  A large part of the problem in the mobile space is simply one of real estate -- there is less of it on a mobile application, and it's far more precious. 

It has been my contention, and continues to be, that this is the bottom-line problem for advertising-supported sites such as Facebook in a mobile world.  The "annoyance line" for people using mobile devices is far too easy to cross because the amount of real estate available on a user's screen is much smaller and yet in order to get any meaningful return on advertising you have to consume much or even all of the top-level page of the user's experience.

But that goes directly against what everyone expects when they use your application -- they don't want advertising, they want content.  They tolerate a certain amount of advertising, in short, but that "certain amount" can not become the focus of the user experience -- if it does you're cooked.

I don't see a solution for Facebook in this regard, and as such my intermediate and longer-term view of their prospects is best-expressed thus:

smiley

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User Info Facebook: Keep Buying Suckers... in forum [Market-Ticker]
Vitchilo
Posts: 4571
Incept: 2011-04-27

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I've asked people I know and most of them would pay at least 20$/year to be on Facebook.

If Zuckerberg mans up, he can make a killing by charging a yearly fee.

But yeah as it stands now, it's worthless.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken

Cawoodruff
Posts: 110
Incept: 2008-04-17

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I am getting very tired of it. I usuall check on mobile.
Within the top three there is a sponsered item. Ususlly three grouped together. Then another three down there is another one. They also screw up the time line to keep the sponsered stuff near the top. such as:
so and so liked... Samsung. Oct 10.
AN if you choose relevant it really gets screwy.
I am tempted to post an ejection handle and stop checking as the siginal to noise ratio is getting bad.

as far as paying for facebook. Not me. rather pay to be on this forum.

Reason: add last will and comment.
Musicandnature
Posts: 1947
Incept: 2007-12-05
Gold
NJ
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chartwise it looks good on the 6 mo though.. 27s or even 30 if they have enough lipstick to paint it. was a good long on bo last week, I did nto though.

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Since it costs a lot to win, and even more to lose, You and me bound to spend some time wonder'n what to choose. Goes to show, you don't ever know, watch each card you play and play it slow...Wait until that deal come round, don't you let that deal go down, no no. Garcia/Hunter.
Fangz
Posts: 567
Incept: 2008-09-18
Green A True American Patriot!
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Ya, I get those inline adds on my mobile using the FB app. Makes it extremely annoying and I haven't seen a way to get rid of them in any setting (nor do I care to look hard either). How nice. What genius actually thinks looking at an ad on your phone, when you aren't even home, will get you to take the time to buy anything? Especially the ads they currently show. The whole thing's f'd.

The mobile app is where screen real estate is small and you are on the go. The last thing you want, or have tolerance for are adds on mobile, but that's where they are currently most intrusive and where you hear they need to focus for growth. Maybe they think they can't dislodge $.99 a shot from the kids that pump away at their phones all day. Like they have money or even a credit card to spend it. Good luck.

Jslique
Posts: 464
Incept: 2008-07-28
Silver
Melbourne
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Vitchilo
Back in the late 1990 companies started wanting to charge for chat sites. They did not last long to much competition. I have a feeling same rule still applies.
The other question I keep asking is where is all of this advertising money coming from. There is a limit and there is so many chasing these dollars.
There is only so many dollars in New cars, Life insurance, erectile dysfunction and baldness.
Cobra2411
Posts: 10335
Incept: 2007-06-26
Gold A True American Patriot!
Philly P.a.
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Quote:
Anyone who does advertising knows that there is a limit to how much you can shove in front of people before they turn you off.
Yup - just did that... If I can't avoid it through programming (AdFree) then I'll avoid it by simply not using it.

Quote:
I've asked people I know and most of them would pay at least 20$/year to be on Facebook.
You'll very quickly find out what Faceturd is worth... smiley

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To err is human. To really **** things up takes government.
Sparticlebrane
Posts: 287
Incept: 2009-08-25


Banned
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Facebook has ads? Man that's interesting. Glad I don't see any...(and I don't have Facebook on my phone).

I just learned that YouTube has ads a little while ago, too. Honestly I was amazed.


Thanks goodness for Adblock Plus.
Yayankee
Posts: 25
Incept: 2009-06-09
Gold
New York
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FYI

6:24 AM Attempts by Facebook (FB), Google (GOOG) and other Web sites to boost their mobile revenues could be hit by a new app for Android called AdBlock Plus, which is due to be launched tomorrow by German firm Eyeo. As the name suggests, the app blocks pop-up and display ads on Web sites, and commercials that precede videos such as on YouTube (GOOG).

http://seekingalpha.com/currents/post/68....
Genesis
Posts: 130663
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
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smiley

Yep....

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Themortgagedude
Posts: 8841
Incept: 2007-12-17
Green
saint louis
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I've got to think this company could be marginally profitable. To me the problem is most likely to be they are trying to be Mark McGwire of 1998 and are more likely to be Dave Kingman of 1981. If you're gonna swing for the home run you're going to strike out a bunch. And for Facebook in a revenue model I'm just not sure there's a home run there. I'm not going to pay for the service, and I'm not clicking on the ads. Best for them to realize they've got a pretty neat place for people to post stuff up - pictures, thoughts, witty comments - and leave it at that. Just trim the fat and wring whatever profit out they can. Maybe that means the company is worth $20 a member. About whatever a magazine subscriber is worth I guess if your selling a magazine. Figure there are about 100-200 million active users of Facebook and I'm guessing you could get a value of about $4 billion. That's a far cry from $56 billion though.

I would guess there is a much better chance though they continue to swing for the fences and a much better chance they are Dave Kingman instead of Mark McGwire.

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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
Wearedoomed
Posts: 3584
Incept: 2009-01-14
Silver
slightly red state
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The wife has been using what are called "Facebook Marketplaces" more and more for buying stuff, esp. kid stuff. They're essentially Facebook groups on which people post for-sales or want-ads.

Usually, a seller on a Marketplace places his small-ticket items out on his front porch; the buyers then pick them up without interacting in person with the seller, and the buyers leave their cash. This limits the potential for theft; little value is at risk. Big-ticket items require a face-to-face, natch.

A Marketplace is more localized than Craigslist. The one that the wife frequents only goes five miles in any direction of us, unlike the local Craigslist which will show ads from thirty miles away.

You need a Facebook account to post on a Marketplace. Some of them might even be invite-only, I'm not sure.

Marketplaces run on an honor system. Still, if user A posts an ad for item X, user B states his intent to buy X from A, but B grabs X without paying, then A has every right to scarlet-letter B's thieving punk ass on the board.

Right now, AFAIK, it's no charge to buy or sell on them. Of course, I can imagine that as Facebook thrashes about more and more desperately for revenue, Marketplaces will get taken over in some form or fashion.

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And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Reason: spel-eenk
Novid
Posts: 92
Incept: 2010-06-25

Philadelphia
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LOL... McGwire was juiced up in 98... almost how that IPO was for Facebook...

I cannot believe for the life of me that these ad men that keep using facebook would have been better served if they just follow the model that got Obama (and in some sense Bill Clinton) in office. say what you will about their poltics but for those who can figure out how to "lie" and "kick the can" for so long you have wonder how they can keep getting elected so easy.
Novid
Posts: 92
Incept: 2010-06-25

Philadelphia
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Quote:
"The wife has been using what are called "Facebook Marketplaces" more and more for buying stuff, esp. kid stuff. They're essentially Facebook groups on which people post for-sales or want-ads.

Usually, a seller on a Marketplace places his small-ticket items out on his front porch; the buyers then pick them up without interacting in person with the seller, and the buyers leave their cash. This limits the potential for theft; little value is at risk. Big-ticket items require a face-to-face, natch.


Seems like a better idea if they can figure how to get a 10 percent out of the sale. Thats the best they can do without wrecking the hell out of that "Marketplace"
Docj
Posts: 998
Incept: 2009-09-10
Silver
Duck & Cover
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I've principally used FB in the past to keep tabs on my daughter - back not too long ago when she, like most of her friends, posted her entire freaking life on FB.

As she's now a college-bound HS senior her FB postings have slowed to a virtual trickle and given some of the recent shenanigans of FB's privacy and content policies I'm starting to think it's a darn-good idea just to close-down my account for good.

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The preservation of liberty depends upon the intellectual and moral character of the people. As long as knowledge and virtue are diffused generally among the body of a nation it is impossible they should be enslaved. - John Adams
Jstanley01
Posts: 8171
Incept: 2008-07-30
Silver A True American Patriot!
San Antonio, Texas
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The biggest IPO fraud pulled off by Wall Street ever....

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/....
Quote:
Facebook insiders cashed-out to the tune of a staggering $10 billion during the IPO, when the company was worth $100 billion. It is now worth $43 billion.

http://business.time.com/2012/08/17/face....
Since the above articles appeared, the dead cat's market cap has bounced to all the way up to a whopping $56.2 billion.

"Suckers" indeed... smiley

http://www.google.com/search?q=facebook+....


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You can't cheat an honest man. ~P.T. Barnum
Trades50
Posts: 4214
Incept: 2007-10-30
Gold
Land of Tax and Spend
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I know a 20 something that post his current location is on FB. He claims he limits who can see his current location. Given the hacking going on I wonder how protected it is.

I wouldn't post any personal info on it.

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When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. - Thomas Jefferson
Peterm99
Posts: 4981
Incept: 2009-03-21
Gold
SoCal
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Could FB have a viable future if they aggregated and sold all of the info they have on their users directly to various TLAs rather than having the TLAs do the scouring of the site on their own? They could do this without any public acknowledgement, just like ISPs and Telcos give info to various TLAs without publicizing it.

In this way their primary income source changes from selling advertising to feeding at the public trough.

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". . . the Constitution has died, the economy welters in irreversible decline, we have perpetual war, all power lies in the hands of the executive, the police are supreme, and a surveillance beyond Orwell’s imaginings falls into place." - Fred Reed
Genesis
Posts: 130663
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
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There's not enough money in doing that.`

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Themortgagedude
Posts: 8841
Incept: 2007-12-17
Green
saint louis
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I just use Facebook to post the occasional musing and to check out photos of friends that I don't see anymore. I can't see how I'm worth a penny to FB. I would think that I like many are money losers for FB.

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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
Novid
Posts: 92
Incept: 2010-06-25

Philadelphia
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FB could have been bigger and made a dime if they just went into the animation business, and used the site to promote stuff they could buy on their store/marketplace. Whats stealing 10 Billion worth when you could make 5 billion more on actual product?

But then again - im just a cynical young bastard :D
Gantww
Posts: 537
Incept: 2011-04-22
Green
Nashville, TN
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Man, I hope facebook doesn't go under. Where else am I gonna troll collectivists, gun-grabbers, religious fundamentalists, animal rights extremists, and grammar nazis all in one place. I have to tell you, I'd pay for the privilege. Of course, the trouble is that I don't think many others would do so. Facebook is rather tolerable to use if your intended purpose in doing so is the same one I have.
Lenguado
Posts: 1272
Incept: 2010-01-12
Gold A True American Patriot!
Orlando, FL
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What's Facebook???


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I just realized... they aren't saying, "Keynesian Economics"
they're saying "Kenyansian Economics". Grass Huts for everyone!
smiley
Welcome to history’s first Double Dip Depression
Novid
Posts: 92
Incept: 2010-06-25

Philadelphia
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The issue is that Zuckerburg played the game well. He didnt want to deal with the baby boomers when he started the IPO so all the non-business attrire, signing at Facebook headquarters etc... it was all a form of rebellion. I could amire that from a distance. But only from a distance because his kind are the same bull****ters that have One "black" friend and genterfied mid manhattian. so **** that bastard.
Nomennescio
Posts: 63
Incept: 2012-01-16

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Gantww, Nice dog! His name Zynga?
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