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| Long-Term Unemployment Entitlement: KILL IT in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Cobra2411
Posts: 10339
Incept: 2007-06-26
Philly P.a.
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Also, one could buy extra insurance to cover them for longer periods.
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To err is human. To really **** things up takes government.
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Mo
Posts: 12158
Incept: 2007-06-26
Pa.
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Americans believe that if something is 'needed' it should be provided by government. They proved this in the last election. And they also proved they are willing to take ALL of your money to pay for it.
So....elections have consequences.
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Welcome to Pottersville
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Swingtrader
Posts: 9108
Incept: 2007-08-12
United Oligarchic Goldman Sachs States of America
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As an employer in NC, and SC, the unemployment commissions are clearly heavily biased towards the employee.
Although the employee cannot draw unemployment if fired for "just cause" the reality is that the commissions will never find that there is "just cause" unless they were an ax murderer.
My most recent example, I furnished examples of violations of state regulations, documentation proving forged records and more. I was not allowed to go to a hearing, provide legal representation for the employer, etc. only to send in documentation.
The employee was able to draw benefits after a 12 week penalty period.
I have owned small businesses for over forty years. In previous decades, I would give a potential employee a shot to prove their worth and many years would have between a salary and a half put towards "growing" employees.
Not any more. Not only that, I have severely limited the pool of applicants, and no longer add an employee for seasonal increases in demand, we just suffer thru the season. Keeps labor cost down, too.
**** you, unemployment commissions of NC, and SC.
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Swing said "Well, it is collapsing as we watch.This is what it looks like." Australian federal judge Jayne Jagot, doing what US judges need to do!
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Aztrader
Posts: 6648
Incept: 2007-09-10
Scottsdale, AZ
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I had dinner with a friend this weekend from Illinois and he told me that a friend has gotten benefits for the past 4 years. Is this possible?
This program readily discriminates against the self-employed because they don't qualify. How many businesses in the past 4 years have closed due to the crappy economy? Discrimination is totally alright to this administration in order to keep the status quo. They hand out welfare, SSDI and all kinds of free **** to satisfy the unemployed, underemployed and leech****s. They pass a so called healthcare bill and hand out hundreds of waivers to their friends. This is the end result of a President that got where he is due to Affirmative action. Every one of these programs are BS and need to be shut down. I am seriously investigating how to make my business a "minority business". They are put at the top of any govt order that needs they specific product. The 2008 election was a test to see if the powers had the marketing power to elect a black man with a name like Barrack "hussain" Obama. They succeeded. The 2012 election was a "stupidity" test to see if after 4 years and 5 trillion poured down the drain, if the same country would reelect the same clown. They succeeded. Now they know that the country is sufficiently "dumbed down" to take over. When all it takes is getting some free **** from your govt to hand over our your vote, then we are done. I doubt if any of the "free ****" is on the table for Obama. Wait until his inaugaration. Then the real plans will come to light...........
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Goforbroke
Posts: 5339
Incept: 2007-11-30
Just call me 'Comrade'
Online
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http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/....Quote:“If Congress doesn’t renew federal benefits, the impact in Ohio will be immediate and negative,” said Zach Schiller, research director for Policy Matters Ohio, a left-leaning policy-research group based in Cleveland. “Not only will the unemployed suffer, but the state economy will take a hit as well.”
A recent Policy Matters report found that fewer than a quarter of jobless workers in Ohio receive state unemployment compensation, with the federal support boosting that to 39 percent.
Because unemployed workers are likely to spend their benefits on food, rent and other expenses, the aid also helps the local economy, advocates note. The average benefit is $300 a week.
Sen. Sherrod Brown is among those pushing for an extension of emergency benefits to be included in any agreement Congress reaches to avoid the “fiscal cliff” and avert $600 billion in automatic tax increases and spending cuts. A one-year extension could cost $30 billion.
“Ohio’s economy is moving in the right direction, thanks in large part to the auto rescue and the developing shale industry. That being said, there are still too many Ohioans looking for work and too many families unsure of whether they’ll be able to pay the mortgage or put dinner on the table,” said Brown’s spokeswoman, Lauren Kulik
“Unemployment insurance protects Ohioans and their families when their jobs are eliminated. Sen. Brown supports an extension of unemployment insurance and also recognizes that most Americans would rather be collecting a paycheck — which is why he’s fighting to ensure that any ‘fiscal cliff’ agreement includes a strong jobs component.”
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We have met the enemy and it is us. -- Pogo
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Frat
Posts: 1935
Incept: 2009-07-15
NKY
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When I lost my job I had for 7.5 years in May 2009, it took me 11 months to find one making even 2/3's what I was - and I took it just to NOT be on unemployment any more. Luckily the wife picked up extra shifts at the hospital (RN), but it was a trying time for the pride AND the marriage. I didn't LIKE being a leech**** (and yes, I did feel like one), but had I taken a job for what was offered, the wife STILL would've had to work those shifts, and child care would've been an issue.
At the same time? We - no, *I* would've done so without that extra 5 months. So no, I'm not arguing against this Ticker; I'm saying it's accurate as hell. I also agree with employee-paid (directly) unemployment insurance. I don't job-hop; in fact, I probably put up with too much bull**** rather than switch. It's time to end the leech****ery - for everyone.
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We're ****ed. Where's Henry Bowman when you need him?
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Avianphlu
Posts: 3933
Incept: 2008-12-03
Ulster NY
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we have an acquaintance that has been getting benefits for over 10 years...rolls eyes
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Cobra2411
Posts: 10339
Incept: 2007-06-26
Philly P.a.
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I've got a friend that got the normal 26 weeks, then the 99 weeks. DID NOTHING to find work. When the 99 weeks ran out he bitched on FB about how there was no warning the cheese was going to end and how he had bills to pay...
Got a job within 2 weeks. Making less, but more than welfare, er, unemployment was paying.
I'm with Karl 100% on this. Let it be an optional insurance that people can pay into. Pick your unemployment time and amount of coverage. 25% of pay, 50% of pay, 100% of pay, 26 weeks, 13 weeks, 104 weeks, coverage against being fired, etc. The amount of coverage vs your likelihood of getting laid off will dictate your rates. If paid by pre-tax dollars then benefits are taxed, if paid by post tax dollars benefits are not taxed.
There's details to work out but I'm happier with that system then the current one. The biggest problem will be people who don't buy it, spend all their money and don't save and get laid off. They'll whine and cry and the socialists will beat their drums about how something must be done for these poor unfortunate people.
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To err is human. To really **** things up takes government.
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Heisenberg
Posts: 90
Incept: 2012-09-21
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Agree 100% KD. But we all know this problem isn't going away. Some people just don't want to work. And they seem to be the most fertile. And now they don't have to. The advocate of the stupid and lazy just got another 4 years.
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Degaston
Posts: 2264
Incept: 2007-07-27
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Rather than say "get rid of the program" we should substitute it (and many other programs) with a "3 hots and a cot" program.
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3/17/2013: Bullish on nothing - 100 percent in cash.
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Flappingeagle
Posts: 1227
Incept: 2011-04-14
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My father-in-law told me yesterday that back during the depression his grandfather disowned one of his daughters and her husband. They were not allowed to come visit for almost 10 years. What sin did they commit? They went on "relief" during the depression after they lost thier jobs. Grandfather's mind set was that there were no freeloaders in his family. If you needed something you went to work and got it for yourself.
My Dad was the same way.
Flap
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Here are my predictions for everyone to see: S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu. "You can't build a house of cards on a shaking table." - Tony Johns The January 2015 AMZN put at $130 (cost $4.25) will be a winner.
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Aquapura
Posts: 130
Incept: 2012-04-19
Land of 10,000 taxes
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I think largely the problem is that in the current economy the people getting laid off are not able to find work that comes even close to matching their previous wage. Even though that new job might pay better than UI it's a tough pill to swallow taking a perceived paycut. I'm sure there are many that are holding out for a better job.
Also, in some fields (mine included) nobody is finding work in 26 weeks or less. Unfortunately the longer you're out of the workforce the harder it is to get back in.
Sure, there's also the leeches but I refuse to believe that's everyone. I don't disagree with killing the 99 weeks. I would glady buy my own UI and think it should be sold like disability insurance.
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Magus
Posts: 1966
Incept: 2008-05-04
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Swingtrader - NC & SC are two of the better states for UE benefits, believe it or not.
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
-~~Ludwig V
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Drkshapiro
Posts: 630
Incept: 2012-09-12
Southern CA
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This ticker was perfectly reasonable AND well written, who could object? I am teaching at a state College in your former state today KD....they just served awful pizza for lunch. The Dean says they have to use only the cafeteria, all unionized, and because they make pizza they are not permitted to order out pizza! At least it should be edible. Theatre of the absurd.
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Honesty may be the best policy, but it’s important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy. --G Carlin
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Jackl
Posts: 2235
Incept: 2008-01-17
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Problem is two fold.
Common labor wages are down.(So is purchasing power) Unemployment funded by funny money is up.
I know several people who have basically said to me "Why the **** am I working for 1-3% raises when inflation steals it back anyway? Might as well not work at all"
We're not just rewarding people to not work, we're also making it unrewarding to work. ZIRP and leech industries are destroying the lower and middle class.
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Swingtrader
Posts: 9108
Incept: 2007-08-12
United Oligarchic Goldman Sachs States of America
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Magus wrote..Swingtrader - NC & SC are two of the better states for UE benefits, believe it or not If you are speaking it is better for the benefit of the employee, I believe it in a heartbeat. If you are saying that NC and SC are two of the better states to be an employer to fire someone for cause and the employee benefit to the detriment of the employers rates - then we are truly in the theater of the absurd. Dunno if you are speaking rate charged employers - and/or the amount of benefit the employee may draw, etc. Kinda hard for me to be sure what is meant by "better states for UE benefits"
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Swing said "Well, it is collapsing as we watch.This is what it looks like." Australian federal judge Jayne Jagot, doing what US judges need to do!
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Genesis
Posts: 130716
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Illinois is "fire at will" because (1) whoever you fire WILL get unemployment irrespective of WHY they were let go and (2) you will cap off so fast that you may as well fire like crazy, since once you cap off there's no higher assessment that comes from doing so.
I find it hard to believe that there's a worse state for employERS than Ill-Noise, but I suppose there might be.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Tristan
Posts: 572
Incept: 2009-04-08
Spirit of '76
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Yep, working just "isn't worth it" for a lot of people. The choice is sit at home and do whatever and get $300/wk, or go to work for 40 hours and take home $400/wk before tax.
Personally, I lost my job and started my own business after a few months (though supposedly illegal to use unemployment insurance to do so...?), because this allows me to work as little as possible and thus be taxed as little as possible. And, well, a few hundred a week doesn't quite do it for me just yet. But I honestly don't look down on the leeches, so long as they know and accept that they are not entitled to anything and when it runs out they'd better be ready (which probably eliminates most leeches...).
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Tristan
Posts: 572
Incept: 2009-04-08
Spirit of '76
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btw, my wife was telling me about one girl who quit where she works because she was making too much and it was having a negative effect on her welfare payments...
And then when trying to fill the void with a new hire, some three out of five people who scheduled interviews for the job just plain didn't show up!
Not sure how indicative that is of the job market as a whole, but these are likely the typical affairs of the lower paying end of it.
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Genesis
Posts: 130716
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Yep.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Jackl
Posts: 2235
Incept: 2008-01-17
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Quote:And then when trying to fill the void with a new hire, some three out of five people who scheduled interviews for the job just plain didn't show up!
Not sure how indicative that is of the job market as a whole, but these are likely the typical affairs of the lower paying end Pretty much. Quote:Illinois is "fire at will" because (1) whoever you fire WILL get unemployment irrespective of WHY they were let go Same BS here. I deal with UE claims at my work. Everyone gets unemployment unless they were practically caught embezzling. I can tell the UE department anything and everything. Doesn't matter. They're supposed to investigate and decide whether or not you get unemployment. Simple fact is they don't care and they rubber stamp practically every application that comes across the desk.
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Magus
Posts: 1966
Incept: 2008-05-04
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Swing..I'm saying for the employer perspective. We frequently win claims in nc and sc..midwest, ne, west coast is way worse and the payroll tax associated with it as well
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
-~~Ludwig V
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Sdbn
Posts: 388
Incept: 2009-09-13
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We are in NC. We fired an employee for cause. Noted verbal warning, 1st written warning and fired on next offense (all the bolts are necessary on the brake repair job, idiot!). He tried to file unemployment and they called to verify details. My husband read the lady the file and asked if she wanted him to fax the details. She said, No and thank you for your time. Never heard anything about it again.
We have an employee whose wife was laid off about 2 months ago. The manager of the local grocery store told my husband they were looking for pt and ft produce employees pay would start at $9 per hour plus bennies. So we called her to let her know. She said "But I'm making $427 a week on unemployment." So she sits on her fat butt and collects while the local grocery can't find employees. We constantly ask ourselves exactly why we started our business and are working our butts off. Life would be easier if we had never even seen the red pill.
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Jackl
Posts: 2235
Incept: 2008-01-17
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Quote:So she sits on her fat butt and collects while the local grocery can't find employee Purchasing power and real capital has degraded too much. The government can print money much easier than you can work for a minimum wage job. Debt has to be pulled out of the system. Prices have to come down. Working has to be rewarding again. I've had several friends who are basically plan-less. They're hurting bad. They're still only getting paid 10-14 dollars an hour. But costs have gone up so much it feels like they've taken a pay cut. I keep telling them to just wait for the deduction eliminations, and tax increases. It'll feel even better.(These people live off their tax returns)
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