Gee, What Took You So Long? (REMICs w/o Notes)
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-11-23 09:08
by Karl Denninger
in Foreclosuregate
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Gee, What Took You So Long? (REMICs w/o Notes)
 

Wow, you're so on-the-ball that it only took you five years to start raising hell beyond when multiple people, myself included, began to howl about exactly this point?

Investors in mortgage-backed securities, built on the shoulders of the tax-advantaged Real Estate Mortgage Investment Conduit (“REMIC”), may be facing extraordinary tax losses because of how bankers and lawyers structured these securities.  This calamity is compounded by the fact that those professional advisers should have known that the REMICs they created were flawed from the start.  If these losses are realized, those professionals will face suits for damages so large that they could put them out of business.  That is, unless the Wall Street Rule is applied.

No kidding?

From 2010-10-03 on The Ticker, which re-hashed a theme I've been pounding on since 2007:

See, there's this little problem.  A REMIC (Real Estate Mortgage Investment Conduit, or "MBS") is a special thing under IRS rules.  Normally a business would have to operate at a profit or loss, pay taxes, and then pay dividends.  This results in double-taxation.

A REMIC has a special status under the IRS code which avoids this; the interest flows through to the investor without being separately taxed at the business-level of the REMIC itself. 

But in exchange for this, there are constraints.  One of them is that a REMIC cannot acquire "distressed" assets - that is, notes that have defaulted.  It cannot, in other words, engage (intentionally, up front) in what would be considered "recovery operations" if you will.

The reason for this is that if it could, every "distressed asset" acquirer would set up such a structure and avoid monstrous amounts of tax.  So, as to avoid this problem, a REMIC can acquire only loans that are current.

And of course if there are no notes that are transferred this explains many things.

Like robosigned documents.

Like "lost document" affidavits (it explains notes being intentionally lost, since they can't be transferred to their correct place late, as the time window has long expired to meet legal requirements.)

Like allonges that magically appear on a document years later (and which are barred under the UCC because otherwise fraud becomes trivial to commit.)

Because REMICs did not file the correct returns and may have committed fraud, the statute of limitations for earlier years will remain open indefinitely, giving the IRS adequate time to pursue REMIC litigation after it obtains the information it needs.If the IRS does not take action at the appropriate time, however, it will be a serious failure and will result in the loss of billions of dollars of tax revenue for the federal government.

More troubling still is the IRS’s failure to address the wide-scale abuse and problems that existed during the years leading up to the financial meltdown.  The IRS’s failure to adequately police REMICs is one more reason that the mortgage industry was able to overly inflate the housing market.  And that, inexorably, led to the crash and our tepid recovery from it.

More generally, by overlooking the serious defects in the transactions, courts and governmental agencies encourage the type of behavior that led to the financial crisis.  Lawmakers, law enforcement agencies and the judiciary cede their governing functions to private industry if they allow players to disregard the law and stride to create law through their own practices.

And until We The People demand through political process that this crap stop and if necessary form a new political party to do so, trampling the existing parties who refuse, you will continue to get screwed and both you and your children will be serially robbed and financially abused by these latter-day robber barons.

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User Info Gee, What Took You So Long? (REMICs w/o Notes) in forum [Market-Ticker]
Steelhead23
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Given past experience, I would doubt that the IRS would go after REMICs. But if they did, the blood-letting on WS would be epic.

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Blurtman
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Obama says let's just move forward. Forget about war crimes. Forget about fraud. But you better obey the law, y'hear?

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Azusgm
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Geithner at Treasury, Holder at Justice, Corzine anywhere he wishes.

No handcuffs.
Medicdan
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Quote:
And until We The People demand through political process that this crap stop and if necessary form a new political party to do so, trampling the existing parties who refuse, you will continue to get screwed and both you and your children will be serially robbed and financially abused by these latter-day robber barons.


How do you educate enough people to do such a thing? This last election taught us a lot about the future. In 4 short years the 47% will be well over 51% if it's not there already.


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R2judge
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As Leona Helmsly would have said, only the little people go to prison.
Djloche
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Where's Gary "no one committed any crimes" J now?

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He suffocated due to his head being too far up his *******.

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What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Noodleman
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It's black Friday. The people are too busy shopping for IPods today to be worried about being swindled by the corporate-government cabal. The demo-pub one-party racket suits them fine. If the subject is willing to just hand the money over to the pick pocket with no resistance before his wallet gets lifted from his pants, you can't really call him a victim, can ya? Let them all eat cake.

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Bagbalm
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Note? The dog ate it your honor.
Marvinmartian
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The failure to follow the rules to properly create a REMIC trust is a time-bomb that could detonate in the indefinite future.

The detonation means that the interest income will be taxed twice. Trusts get taxed at the maximum rate very quickly. Assuming combined Fed/State taxation at 40% that means that only 60% of the interest income will flow through to MBS holder.

Thats a steep haircut. I would not want these instruments held in my pension plan.
Andysvw
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Someone should ask Ben under oath where the titles are now. Ron Paul has had many opportunities to do just that. Many people in positions of authority have not asked that question. This goes right to the hart of how corrupt our leaders have become.
Floridasandy
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okay, we (at least everyone on this forum) understands that the corruption is huge and not going to be addressed, at least by this administration.

so what are we going to do about it?

let's hit the ground running and start a new political party NOW. we would have 4 years until the next election to gain traction against both corrupt parties.
Medicdan
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I like the idea FloridaSandy, but 4 years won't do it without some type a polarizing figure. Like Ross Perot.

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Cvdoc
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FloridaSandy. The corruption is too deep and too high up. Start a serious third party and expect to be viscously attacked. As I was told by a senior justice department official when I remarked, I might become politically active as a physician "Stay on the curb, the head of the snake will be cut". "You don't want to be the head". His wife is a decade long personal friend. I took that advice.

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Mannfm11
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Medicdan, this mess isn't going to last 4 more years. Something like France or Japan is going to blow up and the deficit financing/money printing game is going to be up. Then it will be time to find a place to hide and arm your self. We the people may need to start a shooting war if the government attempts to disarm us, as the hoodlums won't worry about the law.

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Floridasandy
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i am aware that a 3rd party is going to be vilified, because i saw how the media went after ross perot -who was, in fact, only trying to help the country and to make sure that the job base wasn't destroyed.

we have 4 years to name it, set a platform, and then educate. it just needs to be a party without the social issues, and focus on turning america around. i think it is realistic, because this was a huge election and had lower turnout-so a good percentage of people must be sick of both parties. of course, you really need an inspiring speaker(s) to get people to want to listen to you.

Medicdan
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Quote:
Medicdan, this mess isn't going to last 4 more years.


I always chuckle when I hear this. I've been around a while and heard the same thing in the 90's.

We could easily be having this same conversation in 10 years.

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Andysvw
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This can go on for generations. Until nothing is left.

The generation that puts a stop to it shall deserve the title of greatest generation.
Marvinmartian
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medicdan wrote..
I always chuckle when I hear this. I've been around a while and heard the same thing in the 90's.


Andysvw wrote..
This can go on for generations.


I remember the survivalism craze of the 70's. To pull through you needed to store a year of food.

Whats different this time is that if/when interest rates return to normal, roughly 5 to 7%, the interest nut on the outstanding debt will shut off most other spending.

This is a prime reason for QE - to lower the interest expense for the Treasury. The other reason is to provide low interest loans for insolvent banks.

Financial sanity will not return under the current regime. The Fed will keep short term rates at zero because their two primary customers - Treasury and banks would go bust.

People need a means of exchange and will shift to other forms of money; this will either make FRN's irrelevant or somehow the financial system will be restructured.

Either way, look for fundamental change in the next few years.

Reason: insert "The Fed will keep short term rates at zero because .
Bertdilbert
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If it is taxable by the IRS if they failed would it not then be taxable by the state of NY? Does NY have to wait on their money for the IRS to move or not? If there is enough money there would seem like someone would sue on behalf of the gov.

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Mrbill
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They know there's nothing there. Tax all they want. Blood, stone, and all that.

It just ends the game. The IRS, NY and the suckers running this scam know that.
Bagbalm
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In the end game they can completely abandon all their own laws and rules. It will look about the same as confiscation, but they will have some pretty phrase that sounds higher minded than looting. If your wealth is all ones and zeros in a computer it is gone. If it is a deed and survey markers it better be in the God forsaken arid middle of nowhere. If it as tangible it better be buried deep.
Blurtman
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So if the mortgage revenue stream continues to go the holders of the MBS, but the note remains at the bank, don't you think the bank will use that note illegally? For example, as an asset (which has no value as someone else owns it) to use as collateral for borrowing?

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Andysvw
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Blurtman

If the deed is not in the remic then MBS are a scam. They sure as shootin are not AAA. If they were NY melon would have trotted them out with 8x10 color glossy photos with circles and arrows and notes explainin what each one was.
But no they have not shown where the titles are now. They cant show where the title was at any step in the game because they were pledged as assets all over the financial industry. Not just in multiple trusts but in all manner of crap.
All those missing deeds are pledged as unencumbered assets multiple times. When the mortgage was pledged six segments were created. Only the segment with the deed in the trust could be AAA. If you dont actually need to put the actual deed in the trust. Why not just call all of it AAA?

Reason: spellering badly
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