On Those Fed Minutes.....
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-11-14 14:51
by Karl Denninger
in Federal Reserve
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On Those Fed Minutes.....
 

Another howler crosses the wires....

Real personal consumption expenditures rose at a solid pace in August. In September, nominal retail sales, excluding purchases at motor vehicle and parts outlets, increased considerably. Light motor vehicle sales also expanded. Recent data on factors that tend to support household spending were mixed. Real disposable income declined in August, largely reflecting the effect of higher consumer energy prices. In contrast, consumer sentiment rose in September and early October, and continued modest increases in house prices added to households' net worth.

Riiight.

If you happen to believe Zillow then my house has gone up dramatically (ridiculously so) in value over the last few months.  You don't think that's related to Obama's election and the well-known connection between Zillow and the Democrats, do you?

I have a suggestion -- anyone publishing such a Zestimate should have to do so in the form of writing a "PUT".  That is, by doing so they're writing an option that the owner can choose to exercise if they so wish and "PUT" the house on the publisher for the claimed "value"!

I've long advocated that tax assessors should have to live with this, but we ought to extend it across the board to both appraisers and so-called "web estimates" and similar.  In short, put your money where your mouth is or shut up.

I'll make this clear right here and now -- if you think that the Zestimate reflects the actual value of my home as of the date of this posting you may show up at my door with a cashier's check made for that amount (don't bother trying to play a game here; I know what the amount is and printed a copy of the current Zestimate) and it's all yours.  This offer expires in 30 days; I may as well take the (fictitious, in my view) capital gain before rates go up on January 1st.

Near-term inflation expectations from the Thomson Reuters/University of Michigan Surveys of Consumers declined in September and early October, while longer-term inflation expectations in the survey moved down to near the lower end of the narrow range where they have remained for some time.

Where do people get these "expectations"?  Are they all drunk?  I mean, look, expectations may be whatever they are, but history is also what it is, and it's a fact.  You can't change the disconnect between so-called "expectations" and actual results, especially when it comes to actual budgets and their impact on real people.

I suspect what's going on here is found in this chart:

That which the gummermint covers doesn't go into people's "expectations", you see, because it doesn't come out of their pocket.

Consumer credit expanded briskly in August. Nonrevolving credit continued to increase at a robust pace, mainly reflecting growth in student and auto loans.

Uh, all student loans.  Bend over young folks, Bernnake wants his turn and you're the victim, like it or not.

Looking ahead, a number of participants indicated that additional asset purchases would likely be appropriate next year after the conclusion of the maturity extension program in order to achieve a substantial improvement in the labor market.

smiley

Uh, there's been no movement in the labor market.  Again, all that's happened is that food stamps have skyrocketed and the labor participation rate has not materially moved. 

The Fed's actions have done severe damage to the labor market and consumer sustainability by enabling monstrous Federal Deficits, the latter of which are exactly identical in form and function to a tax

Since all taxes are paid by people the impact is exactly what you would expect it to be -- it screws people, and since such a tax is not progressive at all (it is in fact regressive as it tends to fall on necessities) it actually screws the least-able to pay the most!

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User Info On Those Fed Minutes..... in forum [Market-Ticker]
Mortgageguymn
Posts: 1566
Incept: 2009-03-09
Green
North Coast
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My house supposedly went up in value (according to Zillow) about 10% in two months...Sept & Oct 2012. At that rate, I could sell it in a year and buy an island.
Wis/min
Posts: 5364
Incept: 2009-08-14
Gold A True American Patriot!
On the border
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Mine went up too according to Zillow but oddly enough my neighbor across the street couldn't sell his for what seemed like a reasonable price.

Phev
Posts: 440
Incept: 2009-05-17

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And yours Karl, also 10% in two months ?
Time to celebrate.... Champagne ;-)
Lowbeyond
Posts: 16938
Incept: 2008-02-11
Green A True American Patriot!
CO aka West NJ/East CA
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better buy now or forever be priced out !

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Maybe it was a birdy bread-bomber from the future?!
Richardebel
Posts: 96
Incept: 2010-11-15

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I looked it up at the county appraisers website -- nice place! Why would you want to sell it?
Bountyhunter
Posts: 1277
Incept: 2007-12-05
Gold
Newport Beach, Ca
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My home is 14% higher on Zillow than a) the appraisal done in the last 30 days b) the cash offer that was on the table ..note the appraisal and cash offer were identical...score one for a good appraiser. But yeah I would take the extra $257k if you showed up tomorrow with a check :)

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Our world is run by the MOB, ie the Banking Cartel. The number one recipient of commercial banking donations. Barack Obama. Nuf said.
It’s enough to convict OJ with an ALL black jury. LCruiser 1/29/09

Fraudster
Posts: 4176
Incept: 2011-05-10
Green
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Funny, Zillow has my condo priced at much lower than amount I paid for it in 2008. And routinely under-valued vs every other site and an independent appraiser. I did not realize that Zillow had been playing the price inflation game.

EDIT: Someone one floor lower than me in the same unit type, sold theirs for about the appraised price for my home. Which in turn was a good 33-40% higher than the Zestimate. Zillow is screwing around both ways.

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"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte

"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov

Digitlman
Posts: 335
Incept: 2011-03-04

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Going on public info, it looks like the Zestimate for Karl's house is about double what the county tax office assessed it for 2012.

Wow.



Reason: clarity
Steelhead23
Posts: 2043
Incept: 2008-09-09
Green
Portland OR
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Dats some good stuff they's smokin up on Maiden Lane. Looks like they's gots plenty an wants us to join in. No tanks man, I'ze prefer da trute I'ze gets from the Market Ticker, ZH, and NC.

The way I see it, the Fed is wholly in to keeping the system* going - so they are willing to pull out all the stops - facilitate all forms of criminality - lie like a rug - and endanger the nation's future - all so they could avoid the painful work of restarting the economy after the banks implode. I hope that quietly, down in some dark basement room, there are a few dedicated public servants studiously planning how to kick start global finance after the fall - because it is coming.

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"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" —Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild Benjamin Bernanke
For-profit commercial banks are a menace and should be eradicated
Jonesapple10
Posts: 379
Incept: 2010-11-09
Green
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interesting, I have often found Zillow's estimates to be quite lower than market value and WAY lower than asking price. Either way, I still say that buying a house is just fine right now - as long as you think it is a place to live and not an investment. Still cheaper than renting unless of course values end up going down where KD thinks they will.
Tristan
Posts: 572
Incept: 2009-04-08
Green
Spirit of '76
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+10% in two months here as well...

Up 135% since March, is that normal? smiley

Sondergaard
Posts: 687
Incept: 2007-07-13
Green
Big Trees
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TickerCon 1 and the Nuclear montage...yikes. But what's different today versus a year ago, two years ago, three years ago?

I've heard "look out below" so many times I've lost track. Doomsday has consistently failed to appear, and the bulls (the medium-term ones, anyway) are still laughing. BTFD has been the winning strategy.

What's different today? Why should things change now?

I've learned (the very hard way) not to underestimate the ability of this market (1) to put off the inevitable, and (2) to punish those who think it can't.

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And it won't make one bit of difference if I answer right or wrong; when you're rich, they think you really know. --Fiddler on the Roof
Crzymorse
Posts: 1195
Incept: 2010-06-25

Maryland
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The last sentence in the post sums its up well. I suspect much of the population soon after they start collecting SS are going to be on the food stamp dole as well.
Ironpete
Posts: 419
Incept: 2007-10-28
A True American Patriot!
Take the Red Pill
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I have a little question. Since I'm on Staten Island, one of my relatives is looking at a FEMA loan from her damaged house from Hurrican Sandy. Since this is directly from the government, a) is this recorded in non-revolvable credit, and b)is it as difficult as student loans to have it discharged in a bankruptcy?

I just want to let my relative know that it might be in her best interest not to take the loan if they behave just like student loans.
Uppity_peasant
Posts: 3121
Incept: 2009-06-26

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Karl wrote..
Teh Fed wrote..
Near-term inflation expectations from the Thomson Reuters/University of Michigan Surveys of Consumers declined in September and early October, while longer-term inflation expectations in the survey moved down to near the lower end of the narrow range where they have remained for some time.


Where do people get these "expectations"? Are they all drunk? I mean, look, expectations may be whatever they are, but history is also what it is, and it's a fact. You can't change the disconnect between so-called "expectations" and actual results, especially when it comes to actual budgets and their impact on real people.


There hasn't been any material inflation.

I was looking at a gallon jug of Poulan bar & chain oil that I bought in mid-2005 from Wally World. I wrote the price on it - $2.38, and somehow the Walmart price sticker also survived.

Looked it up on the Walmart website: $9.37 a gallon, and the generic stuff is $8.00 a gallon.

It's gone up nearly 400% in 7 years.

Ben has been busy. Of course, only the begrimed peasantry uses bar & chain oil, so I guess it's OK...

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If it's true that "assault weapons" are "weapons of war" and don't belong on the streets of America, why do the police need them? Who are the police at war with?

Reason: add percentage rise
Newcub14
Posts: 423
Incept: 2007-08-26

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I almost feel bad for the latest round of suckers who bought homes in the past 6-9months ... especially those in high-tax states e.g. NJ, NY, CA, Ill. etc
Don24mac
Posts: 43
Incept: 2007-11-26

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Minus 10% for my home here in CT. It continues to gradually drop, but still substantially more than what I paid for it in 1987 (although not if you count the interest I paid before it was paid off--then it's about break even).

But, this is where I live, so doesn't really matter... still much cheaper than renting.

Why is it that people will tell me what they paid for their house x number of years ago, but, if I ask how much they paid in interest on top of that, I get a dazed blank stare as if it has no bearing on total cost of purchase? It's like a hidden cost they aren't aware of.

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"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams
Donethat
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Capital gains Karl? What capital gains, 250k exclusion on sale of principal residence? Can't forget the bubble incentives.
Genesis
Posts: 130798
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
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What makes you think that survives past December 31st?

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Colk55
Posts: 2428
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Indiana
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Our house is down on Zillow over the last couple of years but still 16% above our county's assessment for tax purposes. That assessment also happens to be the lowest value assigned to our property in over 20 years. It has consistently been in the $105k-$125k range over that time but when we received our most recent paperwork, it came in under $90k.

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The politician's motto: If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull****.
Donethat
Posts: 771
Incept: 2009-04-22

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Will the exclusion of gain from sale of principal residence be in the tax code after Dec 31?
Well it is not part of the Bush Tax cuts or sequestration, so I swag it has about as much or less chance of being changed as the rest of the tax code. The exclusion has a multiplier effect when the state income tax rate is say 9 or 11 percent on all income.

They still have time to retro fix the AMT for 2012. The rest of the Bush cuts expire Jan 1, 2013, which the sequestered AMT exclusion reset will make moot for a whole lot of people for 2012. The AMT is a 26 (or 28, both pre Bush cut numbers ) percent flat tax in drag. And when you start working off the exclusion 25 cents on the dollar, the marginal rate is 32.5 or 35 percent. You might pay cap gains on something, and other income wage or sched C or whatever pops into the 35 percent bracket.

AMT compares quite unfavorably to hedge fund carry interest tax rate or just off shoring income.
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