The Post-Election Blues in [Market-Ticker]

Posted 2012-11-12 14:12
by Karl Denninger
in Blogtalk

The Post-Election Blues

Well now it's over, and the Fiscal Cliff looms. Understanding what's really going on with the government statistics and how it all fits together is arguably the most-important thing you can do right now.

Take the red pill with Tickerguy....

3:30 Central today at http://blogtalkradio.com/marketticker

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User Info	The Post-Election Blues in forum [Market-Ticker]
Mannfm11 Posts: 3533 Incept: 2009-02-28 DFW, Tx	Looking forward to it. Will try to be there live for a change ---------- The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith 2012-11-12 14:55:25 Permalink
Apotheoun Posts: 1278 Incept: 2009-08-14 MN	"HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE CRAZY?!?!? Doesnt anybody give a sh@t about the rules?... This is not Nam Smokey, there are rules... League game Smokes." ---------- "when despair is all you can see, the end is finally near." "Because there is some good left in this world, AND ITS WORTH FIGHTING FOR!" 2012-11-12 15:39:05 Permalink
Mortgageguymn Posts: 1561 Incept: 2009-03-09 North Coast	Here's the problem: asshats like Bill Kristol http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2.... who say "I dont really understand why Republicans don't take Obama's offer to freeze taxes for everyone below $250,000 -- make it $500,000, make it a million." Because raising tax rates back up to Clinton-era rates only for people with income >$250k only brings in about $70B per year. That's less than 6% of the annual deficit. I don't have a problem with income tax rates going up, but if they do, they need to go up on EVERYONE, for two reasons: 1) that's where the money is - an estimated $400B/year if ALL of the Bush/Obama tax cuts were to expire and 2) everyone should pay some income taxes - it's the only way to make sure they care about wasteful spending. Last modified: 2012-11-12 15:46:39 by mortgageguymn Reason: typo 2012-11-12 15:45:59 Permalink
Mortgageguymn Posts: 1561 Incept: 2009-03-09 North Coast	PS. A big chunk of my day is looking at people's tax returns. There are too many people who live comfortable middle-class lives in McMansions, going out to dinner, taking beachside vacations, etc. whose tax obligation on line 61 of their 1040's ("this is your total tax") is $0. Not $2,000, not $1,000, not even a lousy $500, but ZERO. You can't run a democracy with 1/2 the people paying nothing. And don't give me that crap about sales taxes, property taxes & payroll taxes. Those things are for specific local purposes and - ostensibly - for one's "retirement". 2012-11-12 15:52:43 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130678 Incept: 2007-06-26	Yep... ---------- I don't care* if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* 2012-11-12 16:00:21 Permalink
Uppity_peasant Posts: 3105 Incept: 2009-06-26	Mortgageguymn wrote.. There are too many people who live comfortable middle-class lives in McMansions, going out to dinner, taking beachside vacations, etc. whose tax obligation on line 61 of their 1040's ("this is your total tax") is $0. Not $2,000, not $1,000, not even a lousy $500, but ZERO. Surely they have to cough up some through withholding, don't they? And what about the AMT? Are they doing this with business losses? ---------- ==== If it's true that "assault weapons" are "weapons of war" and don't belong on the streets of America, why do the police need them? Who are the police at war with? 2012-11-12 16:52:40 Permalink
Wearedoomed Posts: 3584 Incept: 2009-01-14 slightly red state Online	Nope, withholdings is the next line (#62) and doesn't get included. ---------- And you, my father, there on the sad height, Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray. Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. 2012-11-12 16:56:56 Permalink
Djloche Posts: 3270 Incept: 2008-07-07 In the Mountains	KD, any chance of something comes out between now and when the electoral college votes, such that something persuades the electoral college to vote against Obama? ---------- "If we wish to be free, we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of Hosts is all that is left us! Gentlemen may cry, "Peace! Peace!" -- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle?" 2012-11-12 16:57:11 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130678 Incept: 2007-06-26	Nyet ---------- I don't care* if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* 2012-11-12 16:59:24 Permalink
Joe Posts: 1232 Incept: 2008-06-18 Boston, MA	Quote: Because raising tax rates back up to Clinton-era rates only for people with income >$250k only brings in about $70B per year. That's less than 6% of the annual deficit. Mortgageguymn -- do you have a link on that figure? If true, it's almost criminal that it was not brought up by Mittens or moderators during any of the "debates". 2012-11-12 17:00:36 Permalink
Comrader Posts: 78 Incept: 2010-06-10 pa	karl, that pa. county is pronounced "june-e-ata",indian named i think 2012-11-12 17:35:16 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130678 Incept: 2007-06-26	Ah well you can't get 'em all right ;-) ---------- I don't care* if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* 2012-11-12 17:36:33 Permalink
Mo Posts: 12158 Incept: 2007-06-26 Pa.	Obama is only interested in raising taxes on the people who already pay taxes, not on the FSA. How will he accomplish that? ---------- Welcome to Pottersville 2012-11-12 17:45:34 Permalink
Gamma Posts: 5546 Incept: 2008-01-20 Northern CA Online	Mortgageguymn, would you be kind enough to supply a < 10 line profile for such a couple when you get a minute. How can they afford a $3K-$4K house payment and a $1K/mo restaurant tab & cel phones etc etc with no taxable income beyond a typical collection of deductions? ---------- This stuff we're going through, this is nothing compared to the Middle Ages. They told me if I voted for John McCain, an idiot would be a heartbeat away from the presidency. Sure enough... 2012-11-12 17:49:29 Permalink
Blurtman Posts: 563 Incept: 2009-01-24 Banned	Thorium explained. KOMO 4 Seattle video: http://www.komonews.com/news/Solution-to.... ---------- I have a reading comprehension problem and the owner banned me for repeatedly displaying it after being warned. 2012-11-12 17:50:17 Permalink
Mo Posts: 12158 Incept: 2007-06-26 Pa.	Gamma, it's done via child tax credits, I think. ---------- Welcome to Pottersville 2012-11-12 17:54:13 Permalink
Gamma Posts: 5546 Incept: 2008-01-20 Northern CA Online	Understand the anecdotal, Mo, I would just like to hear it from someone who processes actual 1040's. ---------- This stuff we're going through, this is nothing compared to the Middle Ages. They told me if I voted for John McCain, an idiot would be a heartbeat away from the presidency. Sure enough... 2012-11-12 18:00:46 Permalink
Jstanley01 Posts: 8176 Incept: 2008-07-30 San Antonio, Texas	Boehner, right. And before him, the Teaparty, and before them, the Shrubs, and before them, Gingrich, and before them all, Reagan. Revolution my ass. ***ups of historic proportions. All of them "would-a', could-a', should-a'." Chisel it on the so-called conservative Republi-turds' gravestone. They're done. Over. Kaput. Finis. ---------- You can't cheat an honest man.* ~P.T. Barnum 2012-11-12 18:25:06 Permalink
Ghopper Posts: 2299 Incept: 2011-06-11 Staten Island, NY	The White House wants the Fiscal cliff. The whole thing. And they want to blame it on Boner. That way they get the House back in 2014. 2012-11-12 19:25:21 Permalink
Cluelessinfl Posts: 114 Incept: 2011-01-08 Florida East Coast	Anybody else find it interesting that all of a sudden the MSM is bleating "fiscal cliff"? Did anybody hear anything about this from the media before the election? Anybody find it interesting that the day AFTER the election the term "fiscal cliff" jumps sky high in Google search trends? Take a look: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%.... ---------- Land of the Free my ass. 2012-11-12 20:11:48 Permalink
Votenoconfidence Posts: 12 Incept: 2012-04-10	Quote: "HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE CRAZY?!?!? Doesnt anybody give a sh@t about the rules?... This is not Nam Smokey, there are rules... League game Smokes." "Mark it 0..." And of course, my favorite: The Dude: "He's got problems! Emotional problems..." Walter: "Beyond pacifism?" Both appropriate responses to what's happening in today's world imo. Also... Quote: Gamma, it's done via child tax credits, I think. Not just child tax credits...I'm not sure if this is only in my (un)fair state of CA or on a federal level, but someone was telling me you can write off every dollar of interest you pay on a mortgage (someone correct me if this is inaccurate). If that's true, talk about penalizing savers and encouraging debt! Last modified: 2012-11-12 21:17:50 by votenoconfidence Reason: Additional response 2012-11-12 21:08:35 Permalink
Mo Posts: 12158 Incept: 2007-06-26 Pa.	Quote: The White House wants the Fiscal cliff. The whole thing. And they want to blame it on Boner. That way they get the House back in 2014. That's the way I see it too: Obama would be more than happy to let the Bush tax cuts expire for all the white people, not just the 1 percent. And he can claim the Repubs wouldn't raise taxes on the rich so it's their fault. ---------- Welcome to Pottersville 2012-11-12 21:23:36 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130678 Incept: 2007-06-26	Bring it on. That's half the deficit and would be excellent, in terms of what it would finally force people to realize. ---------- I don't care* if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* Last modified: 2012-11-12 21:31:56 by genesis 2012-11-12 21:31:39 Permalink
Mortgageguymn Posts: 1561 Incept: 2009-03-09 North Coast	Gamma, I haven't been collecting data, although I'll try to start. The people whose tax return tripped my trigger - once I looked more carefully - actually had a big (legitimate) loss carryforward from sale of a commercial property. In general, though, if you start with someone's gross income, take off their health insurance premiums (pre-tax) their 401k contributions (pre-tax) their personal exemptions, their itemized deductions (mortgage interest, property taxes, state & local income taxes, charitable contributions), and you get down to a pretty low taxable income. That's before any BS credits like for weather stripping, buying a high-efficiency appliance or buying a Chevy Volt. Just saw a situation where a financial planner who ostensibly makes about $50k taxable income wrote off $25,000 of vehicle expenses. I think the per mile deduction is currently about 52 cents. Is he driving 50,000 work-miles / year? I don't think so. One hears two main comments about taxes: (from the left): "The rich are paying a smaller percentage of their income than at any time in the last X years". (from the right): "The rich are paying a bigger percentage of total federal income tax revenue than at any time in X years." Both are true. Tax rates were lowered for everyone and one of the main effects is that a lot of middle income people no longer pay any federal income tax. Or they don't pay very much. 2012-11-13 00:42:07 Permalink

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