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| The Economic Wheels Are Careening Down The Road in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Jstanley01
Posts: 8178
Incept: 2008-07-30
San Antonio, Texas
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You can't cheat an honest man. ~P.T. Barnum
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Flappingeagle
Posts: 1227
Incept: 2011-04-14
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Quote:France’s manufacturing industry will contract this month more than economists had forecast, according to a PMI released today. The measure showed a preliminary reading of 42.6 for September, less than the average economist estimate of 46.4 in a Bloomberg News survey. Isn't France the #2 economy in the EU? I wonder where that bailout cash can possible come from if economies #2, 3, 4 and others are all going to be short on money? One caveat on that data though, don't a lot of the French people take their vacation in August? Maybe that would help to explain the horrible number. Quote:when asked on a panel what I thought the odds were of things coming apart over the next three years I commented that I didn't see how that outcome could be avoided. Of course there's always a way even if you don't see it, but I haven't changed my mind in that regard at all -- if anything the data since I made those comments has gotten worse, and there certainly hasn't been anything I'd call an improvement in the offing. That is exactly where I am at as well with the way the numbers are running I can't see how this system can keep going. Of course, just like you can't predict Black Swans, I can't predict what might happen in the future to make the system keep going. While some drastic changes might prevent a tremendous dislocation any changes that keep the system going, IMO, would have to be so dramatic that the future system will hardly resemble the current system. Personally, with the way that so many things are interconnected and at high-speed on top of that thanks to computers, it really seems like a crash is almost baked into the system. As an analogy, a house of cards hardly ever partially collapses, once it starts it usually goes all at once and all the way to the bottom.
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Here are my predictions for everyone to see: S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu. "You can't build a house of cards on a shaking table." - Tony Johns The January 2015 AMZN put at $130 (cost $4.25) will be a winner.
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Avianphlu
Posts: 3933
Incept: 2008-12-03
Ulster NY
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Aquapura
Posts: 130
Incept: 2012-04-19
Land of 10,000 taxes
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How's that saying go? Once the average investor is back in the market it's time to get out of equities? My employer just increased the 401K match and everyone is giddy thinking good times are here to stay. Nevermind that the match still isn't at pre-2008 levels.
On a side note, I'm new car shopping as my old whip just passed 200,000 miles. Right now not a single dealer in my area is willing to negotiate. Everyone is acting like it's 2003 and sales are a million + more units than reality. They hate that I want to pay cash and don't care about "what monthly payment I can afford." Any guesses on how much longer that attitude will last?
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Traderchrispy
Posts: 10
Incept: 2010-12-06
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Aqua,
Don't disclose that you're going to pay cash until after the vehicle price has been negotiated. If the dealer thinks he can make money on the back-end, he's more likely to come down on the front-end.
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Crzymorse
Posts: 1189
Incept: 2010-06-25
Maryland
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Aquaoura,
By not taking that credit you are slowing down the economy....cash....WTF. Your are costing the country banking jobs with your actions, very unpatriotic.
Karl is the canary in the coal mine, I look for the media to work in Obama's favor for a another month unlike Bush.
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Aquapura
Posts: 130
Incept: 2012-04-19
Land of 10,000 taxes
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I haven't started to seriously negotiate yet. Waiting for that market crash to get a better deal.
What I hate is how the dealers push financing non-stop. Was at a TBTF bank the other day getting a Medallion Guarantee Seal and those guys are no better, trying to push credit like drug dealers. I thought nobody wanted to lend money?
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Rd
Posts: 470
Incept: 2008-02-27
Long Island, NY
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Aquapura,
From what I understand the dealer gets a kickback on the financing deal and that is where they make the money. Some one told me they took the financing and paid the loan off in the first or second month (No pre pay penalty).
I am not sure if the dealer gets hit because of this but the price of the car was lower than a cash deal.
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Maddymax
Posts: 4660
Incept: 2008-02-26
PONZIVILLE
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good news we avoided another great depression, ben is greatest, but we are now in a never ending recession
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Ben's policy will lead to wage deflation and commodity inflation which will lead to the Greatest Depression and Uprising Ever. Who needs TA we got POMO
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Rotorblade
Posts: 17
Incept: 2011-01-27
North GA
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Took the 05 Tacoma to have the spiral Airbag Cable replaced under warranty yesterday. Talked to the Sales manager whom I've known for years. Good Guy outside of work. OK guy when dealing with him buying a vehicle. He's 62 y/o and has been selling cars for almost 40 years. Started in the early 70's. Anyhoo we walked around the lot and talked a while and looking at the new Taco's I asked him hows business. He said the last 3 months have been real good, sales higher than the last 2 1/2 years. More people buying even the ones that been on and off of unemployment had steady jobs and were thinking things were better, so lets go buy a car. But this month the sales have fallen off a cliff. Puzzled I looked at him and asked wonder why thats happened. He said the people tell him gas prices. But they haven't sold a single Prius new or used? Something that gets good gas mileage from a standpoint of statistics at least. Hummmmm... He said he thinks people are loosing their jobs they had for 6 months or a year. He said they followup on people that were looking to get a new car 2 or 3 weeks ago. The ones they have called back number one reason they say they are out of the market getting a new car. NO JOB. Laid off or hours have been cut back. THe other percentage said that gas was too high.
What worried me was him saying the wealthier in the area that buy cars and trade up and down in and out every few years that may need a newer more reliable vehicle or have something different every few years haven't been in and out in the last 6 months. They are holding onto what they've got. Even the hardcore enthusiast come in look and then leave with a sad face. He's got 4 FJ's on the lot lots of lookers no takers all say gas to high right now. 2 Scion BRZ's one has been there since the release it just sits. I say those are expensive vehicles for what they are. He said 6 months ago those FJ's would have been sold before the truck got here to deliver them.
He told me its looking bad again. Reminds him of 2008.
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Oldpool
Posts: 873
Incept: 2010-06-23
LI NY
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what about buying VIIX futures?
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Liberty, Comrade!
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Magus
Posts: 1966
Incept: 2008-05-04
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"He said the last 3 months have been real good, sales higher than the last 2 1/2 years. "
More likely they ran some hot specials and just pulled forward demand, hence the slower month. 3 and 6 month rolling trends are a lot more indicative in an industry like autos than most, especially for a single dealer.
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
-~~Ludwig V
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Rd
Posts: 470
Incept: 2008-02-27
Long Island, NY
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Also on new cars, three years ago my lease was up, so I went looking for a replacement which was during the crisis and no one was leasing at reasonable prices, it was jacked up two to three hundred dollars. Prior to that time in my area I was told 70% plus were always leases, now you were being steered into purchasing the car with a 4 to 6 year loan.
So now I would have been looking to lease again but I now own the car with one more year to pay off. I believe that many people are in my situation and will just keep the auto purchased (Ridgeline - I like it and may run it into the ground)
The 3 year lease cycle is now coming to an end - most people will just keep their cars. The impact I see will be less new cars sold, less sales tax, less motor vehicle tax, and less used cars going onto the market so used car prices will rise.
All this from lease financing drying up 3 years ago.
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Mpilar
Posts: 5587
Incept: 2009-01-05
Nashville, TN
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Quote:They hate that I want to pay cash and don't care about "what monthly payment I can afford." Only terrorists pay in cash! ;-) The new “Anti-Terrorism Mobile FORCE 1-2 App” is loading now so I can report you for your evil plans! 
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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken
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Magus
Posts: 1966
Incept: 2008-05-04
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RD--still great leasing deals out there. I got one earlier this year, with an effective interest rate of 0.9% based on the buyout option at the end (should note car "purchase" price was 5k below sticker as well).
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
-~~Ludwig V
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Rd
Posts: 470
Incept: 2008-02-27
Long Island, NY
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Magus,
Yes the leasing deals have returned, but the impact from three years ago will be felt now on the need to get a new car.
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Oldpool
Posts: 873
Incept: 2010-06-23
LI NY
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I own all my vehicles, parts and maintenance are way less than lease payments. Some older vehicles are much better than new IMO.
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Liberty, Comrade!
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Magus
Posts: 1966
Incept: 2008-05-04
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Insurance is cheaper on newer vehicles and newer cars get better gas mileage. My insurance dropped $700/year when I got a new car a couple of years ago and MPG went up 8/gal (same type car-8 yr age difference)
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
-~~Ludwig V
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Wakeupcall
Posts: 4232
Incept: 2009-06-08
Hampton Roads, VA
Online
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That doesn't make sense Magus? Why would insurance be cheaper on a new vehicle? It costs more to replace, no?
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“Nothing travels faster than the speed of light, with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws.”
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Genesis
Posts: 130717
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Someone's smoking something.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Noodleman
Posts: 2389
Incept: 2008-11-01
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Thanks for the warning, Karl.
I suspect that most Ticker fans have been short the market or on the sidelines for the last 4 years without much in terms of big gains. It's pretty darn hard to second guess a rigged market. With all the funny business in D.C and Wall Street it's a roll of the dice where she goes next. When the dealer is holding a deck of marked cards it's probably best to stand behind the ropes and watch.
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"Ammunition beats persuasion when you are looking for freedom." Will Rogers, 4 Nov 1879 - 15 Aug 1935
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 2658
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
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Anyone watching world economic reports over the last few months should have seen we were on the edge of a cliff. I think the fed panicked when they saw Canada numbers.
Maybe Obama will have to do another emergency payroll tax cut to keep those "green shoots" in the air....
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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Sdbn
Posts: 388
Incept: 2009-09-13
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But, but, but, the AP says that things are going to get better and they would never mislead me, right? /sarc http://www.wral.com/news/story/11569045/HAS US ECONOMY BOTTOMED OUT? CENSUS SUGGESTS YES "By HOPE YEN, Associated Press WASHINGTON — The U.S. economy is showing signs of finally bottoming out: Americans are on the move again after record numbers had stayed put, more young adults are leaving their parents' homes to take a chance with college or the job market, once-sharp declines in births are leveling off and poverty is slowing. New 2011 census data being released Thursday offer glimmers of hope in an economic recovery that technically began in mid-2009. The annual survey, supplemented with unpublished government figures as of March 2012, covers a year in which unemployment fell modestly from 9.6 percent to 8.9 percent." (more at link)
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Magus
Posts: 1966
Incept: 2008-05-04
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"That doesn't make sense Magus? Why would insurance be cheaper on a new vehicle? It costs more to replace, no? "
2 Things is what my insurance agent told me (I shopped around--they were all cheaper than with old vehicle) 1) New cars are safer now than say 10-15 years ago so you are much less like to have a serious injury 2) Profile of someone driving a new car vs old car (less likely to wreck, which makes sense intuitively as you are going to drive more safely with a car you just spent 30k on than an old beat up junk vehicle)
My insurance, including solid collision coverage, for both wife's and my vehicle is about $700/year now (or ~350/vehicle) compared to previously about $800/6 months.
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
-~~Ludwig V
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