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| Obama's Foreign-Policy Denial Problem in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Iou
Posts: 1023
Incept: 2009-03-16
The Twilight Zone
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The juggling act is coming to end. 
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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."- Frédéric Bastiat
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Dashingdwl
Posts: 9752
Incept: 2007-06-26
los angeles
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I'm sure there are hundreds of anti-islamic videos on the 'net.
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When you are hard and disciplined, you can be principled. People fear you because they have no leverage against you. It's the truest form of Liberty.
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Mo
Posts: 12158
Incept: 2007-06-26
Pa.
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The MSM is shown to be a mindless cult organ.
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Welcome to Pottersville
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Eli
Posts: 7168
Incept: 2007-09-10
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Glad you tickered this it needed to be tickered I was going to post a thread but never got around to it.
The disconnect between what actually happened in the ME and what the administration is saying happened is truly amazing. It goes beyond just a difference in opinion, it is in reality an open lie.
The fact the MSM has not ripped the great O apart on this just shows how biased they truly are. Is it any wonder that the administrations first response was to limit free speech.
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If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell
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Winstonsmith2009
Posts: 1060
Incept: 2009-08-05
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"Obama, you did build this and now you own it."
First of all, I'm no Obama supporter, but I'm disappointed you stooped to use the same out-of-context quote used for an entire evening of BS rallying at the Rep convention. Obama was talking about the infrastructure built by government that aids business.
Second, there would have been no difference if there had been a Rep prez in office. And would you have preferred Keating Five, addle minded McCain in office instead? Your past columns about that dope don't lead me to believe that you would.
Third, the film was the trigger and there have been other potential triggers in the past, but the process behind it is much more interesting and curious than any past incitement as I've pointed out in the several links I've provided. It was intended to be a late-election trigger, to be pointed out to the vast majority who had never seen it at just the right time. Of course, it must be released a few months prior to it being pointed out so it won't seem all too convenient. Anyone who doesn't think this kind of crap isn't going on all of the time needs to read a non-fiction book or two about successful intelligence agency operations in the past.
Finally, I'm not impressed with nor afraid of a bunch of hot-headed religious fanatics with pent-up hatred for US geopolitics who manage to kill four Americans who all knew they had a risky assignment in a foreign land (thus, the two former Navy Seals that were associated with the ambassador) and volunteered for it. Lots of noise, little substance.
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Richardebel
Posts: 96
Incept: 2010-11-15
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Based on what I've been reading. These are coordinated attacks designed to bring the USA into yet more military involvement in the middle east. We should have learned already that there is no military solution to the dificulties in the Middle East. I think the military top brass are also doubtful of further military action. It's only the CRAZY political neo-cons who want to start droping the bombs. If this sentiment prevails, we could end up with WWIII which will be the end of the World as we know it.
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Spazznout
Posts: 1704
Incept: 2009-04-15
Columbus, Ohio
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Winston you got a little something on your chin.
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"In a land without Rule of Law even a sane man who desecrates the state must be made to look crazy. "
Rubicon Jan. 9, 2011 blog post.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable."
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N777ff
Posts: 17
Incept: 2009-05-27
WI
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Wow Winston, just wow. You are proof that liberalism is a mental disorder.
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Dashingdwl
Posts: 9752
Incept: 2007-06-26
los angeles
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Winston, The SEALs were not there to protect the Ambassador. The Ambassador did not have a protection detail. The SEALs were there on a mission to find MANPADs (man portable anti-air missiles).
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When you are hard and disciplined, you can be principled. People fear you because they have no leverage against you. It's the truest form of Liberty.
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Nashvillian
Posts: 165
Incept: 2008-12-01
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The problem with acknowledging a possible al Quaeda connection is that the administration then has to address the al Quaeda threat as fact rather than simply acting as if a figment of W's neocon war-mongering imagination.
Every such violent "demonstration" of note, starting with the Danish cartoons, has been orchistrated by clerics in a bid for power and influence, whether for themselves alone or as proxies for a larger movement.
The solution is to hunt down the instigating clerics, execute, and place their heads on pikes at the embassy gate. Bin Laden should have been cut up into as many pieces as we have embassies in Islamist territories and each part placed in bulletproof displays embedded in 10-foot thick masonry wall beneath the American flag. That is how one successfully communicates the futility of rising up against American interests, as it is exactly what their holy book teaches and thus is what they respect, expect and understand. We do as much with drones, but the symbolism is lost.
No need to abandon embassies, wage war, turn Mecca into glass, etc.
Incidentally, that is why Saddam was such a bastard and why Mubarak was such a bastard - they knew to supress such activity and how to do it, as sectarian violence was a constant threat, and sects banding together to challenge your power was always in the cards. They saw Lebanon go to hell, they saw Iran go to hell, and they know Afghanistan is pretty much ungovernable due to Islamic fanaticism.
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Each gun invited into a school for protection carries a risk of an unintended death. For any one weapon the risk may be inconsequential. Before deciding to place 500,000+ guns in 130,000 schools, the risk must be calculated.
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Riposte
Posts: 272
Incept: 2010-01-08
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Quote:Obama was talking about the infrastructure built by government that aids business. Yes, we know that. Everybody knows that. Everyone knows that's what he was talking about. That's the whole point. Obama believes business owners essentially don't build their own businesses, because they need "help" from the government. Therefore, "you didn't build that." Hmm, I wonder where the government is getting the money to build all of this infrastructure? Hmmmmmm.... |
Magus
Posts: 1964
Incept: 2008-05-04
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Winston--No one is taking it out of context. Feel free to read Obama's speech right here:
"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)
If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."
He strongly believes government is responsible for successes in the economy rather than people. No spin needed.
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
-~~Ludwig V
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Bailout-funder
Posts: 1009
Incept: 2008-10-17
SF Bay Area, CA
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Winston, thanks very much for dropping a worthless dingleberry into my monday morning joe. Really appreciate that. Your "points" are so easy to refute that it's not really worth the effort of conscious thought. Rather, let's just wait for an as yet unawakened TFer to chime in.
Thanks again.
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"As we have now seen, one little lie, repeated often enough, becomes one gigantic mess."
"Someone clearly got the best government money can buy, but it certainly wasn’t us."
--Karl Denninger
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Uppity_peasant
Posts: 3101
Incept: 2009-06-26
Online
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But, but, but - the media tells us that Romney is a foreign policy screw-up. It was in all the papers last week. And the administration tells us that it was the video, without any contradiction or "fact-checking" from the media! 
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If it's true that "assault weapons" are "weapons of war" and don't belong on the streets of America, why do the police need them? Who are the police at war with?
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Geschrei
Posts: 468
Incept: 2009-02-23
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Hate to have to pile on, Winston, but you are missing (or are deliberately obfuscating) the entire point of the Ticker.
The video had virtually nothing to do with the deaths of Stevens and his colleagues, or of the attack on the NATO facility in Afghanistan. The Obama administration is engaged in an active disinformation campaign in a deliberate attempt to deflect blame for the violence onto some obscure 'filmmaker' and away from their specific policies and actions.
Short version for the ADD/ADHD crowd:
People died, so Obama lied.
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“The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern.”
Lord Acton (1834 - 1902)
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Winstonsmith2009
Posts: 1060
Incept: 2009-08-05
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"Based on what I've been reading. These are coordinated attacks designed to bring the USA into yet more military involvement in the middle east. We should have learned already that there is no military solution to the dificulties in the Middle East."
Wise.
"Winston you got a little something on your chin."
No, as I've said previously, I don't care who wins. I won't vote for either of them. I just don't like seeing anyone misrepresented.
"No one is taking it out of context. Feel free to read Obama's speech right here."
I already know what he said. He wasn't following a teleprompter, so he worded it very poorly, making it easy to misinterpret. He later came out and said that infrastructure was exactly what he was talking about which, by the way, is one of the very few valid functions of government.
"You are proof that liberalism is a mental disorder."
I'm not going to say that labeling people, especially when labeling them incorrectly, is a mental disorder. I'm not going to say that.
"The SEALs were not there to protect the Ambassador."
Sure, that's why they ended up dead like him. Just like all of the former Soviet embassy personnel were actually present _exclusively_ for their claimed jobs. MANPADS may very well have been PART of their job.
Read between the f'ing lines for a change people!!! Take NOTHING at face value, especially when it comes from a government.
Reason: Tpyo
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 2650
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
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Well, I can agree with this post, spot on.
Now Winston, I think you missed the point of Karl's post. You may have other points of view, but that does not excuse the Obama administration from their attempt to deflect attention to the film. Your other points may be valid, however are irrelevant in the context of Karl's post.
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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Magus
Posts: 1964
Incept: 2008-05-04
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Winston--You are free to believe he didn't mean that but his action, other speeches, and background lead me to believe otherwise. Similar, the rest of that speech leads me to believe he meant it. Him and Hillary are both of the "it takes a village" mentality, which I strongly disagree with.
I realize a lot of infrastructure is paid for by .gov. So does everyone else. The point of his speech was that the rich needed to pay their "fair" share of taxes.
As I said the other day, I also do not believe the video has anything to do with what is going on over there and definitely nothing to do with the attacks in Afghanistan and the murdering of our ambassador.
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
-~~Ludwig V
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Winstonsmith2009
Posts: 1060
Incept: 2009-08-05
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"Your other points may be valid, however are irrelevant in the context of Karl's post." I was addressing specific wording used within his comment. To continue on the topic of what this film and uprising is intended to accomplish, public opinion herding for political reasons, here's just one book filled with examples of how so many can be led around by the nose. It illuminates how this sort of crap can be "free-lance" arranged and you will never know. Ever wonder what happens to the tens or hundreds of thousands of retired (or kicked out) government and military spooks, some of whom who see Constitutional limitations on their powers as bad ideas? The following post-Watergate (1978) book "is an unprecedentedly brilliant work of investigative reporting, based on four years of research and interviews with hundreds of mercenary spies, their employers, and their victims." With our modern technologies, imagine how much worse things probably are now when it comes to this sort of activity: Spooks: The Haunting of America - The Private Use of Secret Agents Hardcover: 478 pages Publisher: William Morrow & Co (August 1978) ISBN-10: 0688033555 SPOOKS probes the private use of secret agents by multinational corporations, the politically powerful, and the rich. Since the beginnings of the American intelligence community, literally thousands of spies have left federal employment to work for those industries and those individuals that are wealthy enough to afford them. Their impact on the way American business is done and life is lived has been at once profound and largely unseen. In a real sense, America has become 'haunted' by the spooks its government has trained and then turned loose on the public. Private CIAs and Mission Impossible agencies-for-hire have sprung up in virtually every major commercial center, and within most of the 'Fortune 500,' corporations as well. Unlike the CIA, these private apparats are in no way accountable to the public--only to their employers. In effect, the public has been the target of a widespread domestic intelligence operation that has been thirty years in the making and today reaches into every corner of the society. SPOOKS reveals the spooks who haunt this land: who they are, how they work, and what they've done to us. The people in this book--Ivy League bagmen, Mafiosi, mercs, wiremen, counter-intrusion specialists, counter-terrorists, and assassins with perfect manners and private jets at their disposal--are real. As are their coups d'etat organized for private profit, their surveillance 'colleges,' and their assassination devices manufactured in small shops and 'safe houses. ' In a more general way, Spooks presents some startling revelations concerning prominent figures and events. This is an unprecedentedly brilliant work of investigative reporting, based on four years of research and interviews with hundreds of mercenary spies, their employers, and their victims. http://www.amazon.com/Spooks-Haunting-Am.... |
Aztrader
Posts: 6648
Incept: 2007-09-10
Scottsdale, AZ
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Jimg
Posts: 180
Incept: 2009-02-04
Dunedin, FL
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That video was unwatchably bad. There is much more, and worse, ant-islam stuff floating around the internet. But it was in HD, so I guess it was a "major Hollywood production"!
That coordinated attacks on 9/11 with RPG's was just a protesting mob is not credible.
It was my understanding that the developing intelligence was that it was probably a mixture of protestors over the movie, and terrorists, probably Al Qaeda-linked, taking advantage of the chaos to make an attack, possibly as revenge for the June drone strike killing of Abu Yahya al-Libbi.
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Nashvillian
Posts: 165
Incept: 2008-12-01
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The flip side of Obama's (and his audience's) perspective on personal success is the unspoken position that those of us who are losers (or just average) also enjoyed the same taxpayer-bought infrastructure and yet have so far failed to get rich, and it's not our fault. Either the successful stepped all over the rest of us to get where they are OR government largess has been lacking for the rest of us to become equally successful. Either way, it's Uncle Sam and Bennie Bux to our rescue.
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Each gun invited into a school for protection carries a risk of an unintended death. For any one weapon the risk may be inconsequential. Before deciding to place 500,000+ guns in 130,000 schools, the risk must be calculated.
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Dashingdwl
Posts: 9752
Incept: 2007-06-26
los angeles
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Libya Warned US Three Days Before Consulate Attack http://news.antiwar.com/2012/09/16/libya....Official Repeatedly Warned About Deteriorating Security by Jason Ditz, September 16, 2012 Print This | Share This Despite US officials angrily condemning reports last week that the Benghazi consulate attack, which killed the US ambassador, came with advanced warning, another Libyan security official came forward today to confirm that he gave the US a specific warning about security three days before the attack. “The situation is frightening, it scares us,” the battalion commander reportedly told US envoys. He added that this was not the first time he had warned them and that he had repeatedly cautioned that security was deteriorating, advice which was apparently ignored. The US has insisted that nothing could possibly have been done to prevent the attack and claims they had absolutely no “actionable” warnings beforehand. Libyan officials are now scrambling to arrest people, saying they have captured 50 people over the attack. Yet the whole US narrative has fallen flat whenever anyone actually on the site speaks up. Claims that there was a major protest before the attack turned out to be false, and initial US claims that the strike showed considerable advanced planning have since given way to claims that it was “spontaneous,” which seems extremely unlikely given the advanced notice.
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When you are hard and disciplined, you can be principled. People fear you because they have no leverage against you. It's the truest form of Liberty.
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Dashingdwl
Posts: 9752
Incept: 2007-06-26
los angeles
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Winston,
A Personal Security Detail is a subject I know a little about. Sorry, but you are wrong. The killed SEALs had a non-PSD mission, paid for and authorized under a different contract, with different manning requirements. Of course, when the consulate was attacked they defended themselves, stacked up muzzies like cord wood, and they defended personnel there. But that was not the reason they were there.
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When you are hard and disciplined, you can be principled. People fear you because they have no leverage against you. It's the truest form of Liberty.
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