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| Is Nokia (NOK) The Next Sprint? in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Irishblues
Posts: 290
Incept: 2010-12-18
Wisconsin
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I've wondered about NOK for a while, because its chart looks a whole lot like what Sprint looked like when you sounded the signal to climb aboard. I just haven't been able to convince myself to pull the trigger [yet] - but that may be changing shortly.
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Crzymorse
Posts: 1195
Incept: 2010-06-25
Maryland
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They also have a dividend yield of 6.6% which they can suspend to save $2B a year in cash. If they are serious about running the company they should get conservative at some point. Uncle Ballmer might put in more cash as well.
The experience with the Apple 4S and especially SIRI are going to have a bunch of apple adopters looking at alternatives next contract around in about a year.
I think the Windows 8 might be Microsoft's last bite at the Apple so to speak as they are starting to feel irrelevant.
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Matt_bear
Posts: 6364
Incept: 2008-07-15
a week early on spy puts
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i'm long a ****load of shares from $1.70. Been in this one for awhile now.
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In terms of real-world fundamentals, I expect that most of the people around me, whom I work with day to day, and whom I pass on the street ... will be dead within five years.
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Mannfm11
Posts: 3557
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
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You hit on something KD. MSFT and NOK. MSFT has its own turf to cover here with so much on the personal side moving to phones. As long as I can get a decent deal on a laptop, you won't see me posting much from a phone, as I like to keep using my eyes and have relatively large hands. MSFT has been a cash machine for a long time. NOK looks reasonably valued.
As we sit AAPL is at a new high. There seems to be a lot of expectations the status quo is going to hold. As long as iphone is the mark, there will be a lot of margin below to play the game, I would suspect. The future iphone market BSTV keeps talking about, the 4 billion people living off nutrients they can get out of dirt are clearly going to be buying $100 plus a month plans to get the iphone out of their $50 a month income. The free **** is going to run out in the USA and I'm sure those people are going to keep plugging their $150 a month plans as well. It is no wonder so many of these kids look at their phones all day, as it is all they can afford to do after getting a phone and a car. Just missed one on the freeway yesterday. One more good reason for me not to carry a gun.
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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Matt_bear
Posts: 6364
Incept: 2008-07-15
a week early on spy puts
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25 cent divy puts the yield just under 10%.
of course, the pay it annually and not quarterly...so there's a chance they could scrap or heavily reduce it by the time next payment comes around.
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In terms of real-world fundamentals, I expect that most of the people around me, whom I work with day to day, and whom I pass on the street ... will be dead within five years.
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Mayorquimby
Posts: 13909
Incept: 2008-09-18
The Archaic Past
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Alliance with ZNGA could yield a nice pair trade for both although I'd certainly go with NOK before ZNGA. Still - lots of hype could lead to run-up for both.
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They who wish to hurt you, work within the law. - Morrissey
Gold is theft.
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Jstanley01
Posts: 8182
Incept: 2008-07-30
San Antonio, Texas
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Tickerguy wrote..IMHO the entire wager is on the success of the Win8/Surface/Phone paradigm. Win8 seems to be*****ing off MS's PC user base, however. On the other hand, customers in the niche who like being on the leading edge might just take to their phones and tablets, and might be more willing to adapt to "the stupid" if they also use PCs. Whilst the rest of us, who live more sanely (not to mention productively, lol), as per usual continue using an older OS while awaiting the inevitable MS screwups to be ironed out.
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You can't cheat an honest man. ~P.T. Barnum
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Lowbeyond
Posts: 16938
Incept: 2008-02-11
CO aka West NJ/East CA
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my friend has has one of the older versions of the windows phone. and the metro interface really does well on that form factor. large squares on the home screen for 6 or 8 or whatever it is thingies.
i kinda like it as you dont have to be that precise when you text and drive while making pizza in your passenger seat microwave .
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Maybe it was a birdy bread-bomber from the future?!
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Erbo
Posts: 121
Incept: 2010-06-10
Denver, CO
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Karl, I wonder if you've seen Tomi Ahonen's piece, "The Sun Tzu of Nokisoftian Microkia": http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/br....It's 29,000+ words and can't really be summarized well; it includes some thoughtful background material on military history, specifically the Battle of Suomussalmi during the Winter War, but mainly details nineteen strategic blunders made by Stephen Elop as head of Nokia, including four that should have been "Extinction Level Events" for the company--and may yet prove its undoing. Eric S. Raymond (here: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4444) thinks Ahonen was a little too complacent about the market for Symbian-based phones and may have overestimated Symbian's potential in an increasingly smartphone-dominated world. He can't find fault with the rest of Ahonen's analysis, though, and he's devoted a good deal of his blog space to covering what he calls "The Smartphone Wars," so he's well-versed in the industry background himself. I'm not too thrilled about what Nokia has come to; prior to my conversion to Apple iPhone with the 3GS, all of my previous cellphones were Nokias, dating back to my old Nokia 5160 from AT&T Wireless before they became Cingular, and then became AT&T again. They were good phones, and, given a compelling-enough smartphone story from Nokia (and supported by AT&T), I might have stuck with them. But, as it is, I don't know anyone who has or even wants a Windows Phone (my family has mostly standardized on iPhone, while, with my coworkers, it's either iPhone or Android, except those who carry corporate Blackberrys), and I'm not convinced Microsoft's "integrated" story will fly. In fact, I'm convinced that Windows 8 will fail in the marketplace even harder than Vista did, on its own merits or lack thereof...but that's another story. And I wonder if all of what Elop has done with Nokia is merely a prelude to a Microsoft buyout of the company....which would be kind of an inglorious end.
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"There is a ready solution for anyone on the public payroll who feels that he is not paid enough: He can resign and work for a living. This applies with equal force to Congressmen, Welfare 'clients,' school teachers, generals, garbage collectors, and judges." - Ira Johnson
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End_the_bubbles
Posts: 9525
Incept: 2009-03-25
The New 3rd World
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Matt_bull wrote..i'm long a ****load of shares from $1.70. Been in this one for awhile now. Wow, how impressive you caught the absolute bottom a month ago.
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In the long run even the most despotic governments with all their brutality and cruelty are no match for ideas. Eventually the ideology that has won the support of the majority will prevail and cut the ground from under the tyrant's feet and rise in rebellion to overthrow their masters.
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Matt_bear
Posts: 6364
Incept: 2008-07-15
a week early on spy puts
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7 cents off, to be exact. 
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In terms of real-world fundamentals, I expect that most of the people around me, whom I work with day to day, and whom I pass on the street ... will be dead within five years.
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Bsfootprint
Posts: 967
Incept: 2011-02-27
Online
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Best phones I ever owned for battery life, RF performance were Nokias. Everything else was crap by comparison.
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When I hear central bankers are blowing bubbles, I like to picture a large, happy and well-endowed male chimp named 'Bubbles'...
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Ckaminski
Posts: 1586
Incept: 2011-04-08
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I think you're misremembering history. It was Windows 3.1 that put the nail in the first Mac coffin, not XP. apple would probably have died had Microsoft not made their huge $150 million 1997 capital infusion to keep Justice of their backs.
Microsoft has always played the integration game - but badly (embrace extend extinguish). Not defending Apple here, but Microsoft ****ed their loyal fan base when the went to the AppStore model. I knows ****load of techies who turned in wimo6 phones for Androids.
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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I've still got a Nokia 6010 laying around somewhere. Best phone I ever had. Wonder if I could activate it on a prepaid system?
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Mezzmor
Posts: 1175
Incept: 2008-10-09
Off the grid
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I would love to have some faith in the Microsoft platform. However we have a few things working against it:
Microsoft has demonstrated repeatedly that they are completely out of touch with what the consumer wants. There hasnt been a microsoft product that has provided what I would term as excellent useability in years. Look at the abortion of a GUI in Office; although admittedly better than ita original release in 2007, there are still a lot of functions that make you scratch your head as to why you would put that certain function or widget where it is. I dont know exactly how to differentiate the new mobile OS from Apple or Android...whats going to make Surface a "gotta have it" game changer? You still gotta have developers that create the apps...how many dev houses are going to hire to start a winMo team when Microsoft's track record of late has been dismal and products abandoned?
The real game changer though is if Microsoft has a seamless, and I mean seamless, SharePoint client which can check out, work on, and check back in projects, at a minimum...even better would be a TFS client with a lite version of the development tools. Integrated collaboration is where its at in mobile devices, and since SharePoint dominates the collaboration software market, the differentiator would be integrating SharePoint into it. (lync would help too).
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Once the "Progressive" and the "educated" have completely destroyed the country, the logical, the wise, and the experienced will rebuild it.
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Paulpi3rce
Posts: 5
Incept: 2011-12-23
Worcester, MA
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I wasn't as lucky as Matt_Bear, but I did buy good amount of shares on the way down (2.39 range). I figured if they stuck around I'd be getting some good div's. I also got in the day or two before the Microsoft Surface announcement; knowing it was a long shot, but that Microsoft may purchase Nokia.
I plan on holding on for the long haul. The value of their patents should be ballpark what the stock is trading at currently (least that's what I hope ;-) )
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Veedubforlife
Posts: 40
Incept: 2011-08-19
United States
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It's too bad Nokia pulled out of their deal with Intel to produce x86/Atom based phones. As seen in Europe, India and China the Medfield x86/Atom chip scaled down the power pretty well. There are still some android app compatibility issues, but the possibility with Windows 8, combined with Wireless Display and bluetooth mouse/keyboard, you could have a phone that is a computer with a real operating system (albeit a little slower than your few-years-old laptop), making the smartphone more than just a toy.
Another plus for Nokia: Internet culture holds the Nokia phone as being stronger than adamantium, and that the real story of the 3 little pigs had the surviving pig building his house out of Nokia Phones.
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Ribbit
Posts: 1782
Incept: 2007-09-10
Wales, UK
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I'm seeing a heck of a lot of customer enthusiasm for the Nokia Lumia 710 (£99 on pay as you go over here).
I am no longer enthused about Smartphones, but if that Lumia 710 is on a Christmas offer, I might get one for a Christmas present to play around with.
Otherwise, as I've said before, my main phone now is a Nokia 6303i Classic - no touch screen, great RF performance, audio, and battery life, and good buttons too.
What's not to like?
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If the State was a Nanny, it would have been fired for incompetence, unreliability, and having its hands in the till, a very long time ago now.
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Exsanguine
Posts: 24
Incept: 2011-10-17
Fargo
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Couple things:
1: Tomi Ahonnen -- very disgruntled ex-Nokian. I take everything he has to say with a grain of salt knowing it is colored with his hate of Nokia.
2: I have a Lumia 900 from AtT. Love it. Tried an android and hated the OS. clumsy, cluttered and takes multiple steps just to accomplish a simple task.
3: Iphone. It is a clique. Since it was the first it is now just a status symbol rather than a very well functioning OS+Phone that people think they have to have rather than should have.
4: I have been using the RC WIn8 on my laptop since late last fall and I love it -- even without the touch screen capability. Once you have accustomed yourself to the 'app' style interface it is far more fluid than older versions of Win. Plus all the old settings screens are still there with a few clicks of your mouse.
5: Win8 phone: Love the interface and full integration of social media, contacts, live tiles, etc. Doing one task with one tile that takes 2-3 tasks in iDroids. :)
Been long NOK since they started falling from $7 range.
They simply make the best phone hardware out there. I have faith that the corp world will also adopt the Win8 ecosystem.
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Mike2007
Posts: 25
Incept: 2011-02-27
Oakland, CA
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What most people overlook is that Nokia never made all it's money on cell phones, but their telecommunications equipment also played a big role. From anecdotal evidence I hear they (and others) are currently getting killed by Huawei in that market.
I have only owned Nokias starting with a 6150, to currently a N86 which I mostly use as a dumbphone - but I'm skeptical my next one will be too.
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Vfl
Posts: 202
Incept: 2009-03-19
Seattle Metro, WA
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What's so special about Nokia?
Caveat/Disclaimer first: I own no smart phone, and still on an antique motorola phone, so anything I post here shall be considered.....you know what.
OK, I surmise that Nokia makes no key components that went into a smart phone...What no-kia can do, HSC or samsung or hundreds of other makers can also do if they all use wp8 as OS.....
Assuming wp8 does succeed in meeting consumer's .....then all we can say is that I-phone will suffer for sure.... but there is no way to know No-kia, as a phone maker ( or assembler, or assembled by Foxconn.....) will stampede over Samsung, or even HTC,....etc
Does No-kia collect license fee for its software embedded in wp8?
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Exsanguine
Posts: 24
Incept: 2011-10-17
Fargo
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Vfl:
Nokia manufactures their own phones. Nokia also has about 30,000 patents in regards to cell tech, manufacturing tech, and UI, UX and other technologies involving phones.
Apple pays Nokia $5 per iphone in royalties. Samsung also pays royalties to Nokia per phone sold.
Nokia designed and patented the majority of the key components that go into their phone. You have to remember that Nokia is first and foremost a Research and Design company -- they don't just "make" phones. They dream, design, prototype, test and deploy phones.
THis was one of the factors that led them to failure back in 2007 -- they had 3 smartphone prototypes on the shelf, ready to move on to deployment but management at the time wanted to keep riding the feature phone wave, which they owned in toto. Well, iPhone came along and proved them quite shortsighted and they are just now getting back in the game.
let me repeat: Any maker of smartphones will most likely end up paying Nokia royalties for any technology they use in their own phones. Nokia had the "idea" first but stupidly chose not to deploy it...so now they have reams of patents based on those ideas that other companies now must pay them.
As for license fees for the embedded Nokia maps in Wp8: I am not sure what MS is paying Nokia. My guess is that it is a hand in hand deal - MS gives WP8 to nokia for free, MS gets Nokia maps for free. Bing maps will now be all Nokia from now on. Nokia bought NAVTEQ in 2008, they are the actual maker of Nokia maps and Nokia Drive, Transit, etc.
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Ugrev
Posts: 144
Incept: 2010-03-08
The police state of NY
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MS has a few other applications that aren't "PC/general customer" facing that are receiving, dare I say, A BUTTLOAD of flak for the UI decisions. Myself being one of those who are raising hell. Example: The UI menu items for vs 2012 are in ALL CAPS. There is very little contrast... it's just awful.
On anything other than a small tablet (7in) or smartphone, the metro UI is a colossal piece of ****. Thank God you can turn it off. I just can't see interacting with my computer the way they envisioned. The saving grace here is that the upgrade cost from Win7 to 8 is ~$50.00 (IIRC).
I, for one, will never buy another windows based smartphone until MS dumps their crappy performing metro garbage.
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Bsfootprint
Posts: 967
Incept: 2011-02-27
Online
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@ugrev: MS is running on inertia (Windows licensing cash cow) and is suffering the death of a thousand cuts.
Only a matter of time.
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When I hear central bankers are blowing bubbles, I like to picture a large, happy and well-endowed male chimp named 'Bubbles'...
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