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| No, Really? (Fiscal Destruction) in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Stonedog
Posts: 2080
Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Karl - I actually had an ongoing conversation with a retiree over the weekend on the Yahoo! Boards and even after I had finally managed to shut him up about "my lies" proving to him that there was no way we could pay for medicare and medicaid with 9.2% exponential growth, he still insisted that he was entitled to it and that I had "bad character" for insisting that the math did not lie and that we needed to abolish the programs... What scared me was the notion that this sort of entitlement mentality might exist throughout the baby boomer generation. If it is they WILL take the nation completely over the fiscal cliff.
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"I would characterize my professional disdain as more of a professional contempt for their [Central Banker, Banker and politician] economic and financial policies, priorities, presumptions and prescriptions." - Lauren Lyster on Capital Account for Friday June 16, 2012
"All the stimulus, the bailouts, the quantit
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Genesis
Posts: 130677
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Yep.
It does and they will. I didn't speak to my parents for nearly a decade over this -- that fight went back to the 1990s with them. My father, incidentally, was a CPA -- he knew damn well I was right, admitted it, and didn't care.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Kylafoon
Posts: 2456
Incept: 2009-02-05
Zombie Portal Lookout
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Quote:We're still arguing over stupid things, more than 30 years after the alleged debate began. I couldn't help but think of the Forrest Gump line. "Stupid is as stupid does." 30 years of the ascension of the non-payer. There is the stupid..
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"...But whenever we see things done wildly, but taken tamely, then the State is growing insane..." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton 1910
"I found a flaw in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works." - Alan Greenspan, October 2008
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Tesla
Posts: 15541
Incept: 2008-04-03
State of Disbelief
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THEY ? Hey Stone, it's not JUST the Boomers; it's every entitlement ***** living off the gov teat. Ask the Silent Generation whether they're entitled to their SS even tho they paid so little into it ? Ask my Mother's 83 yo neighbor whether she's entitled to that hip replacement she's getting via Medicare next week, or her weekly sessions at the doctors' offices, or that $1 fare from Amtrak while the working stiffs pay 20x that, or...
Hate to burst your bubble, folks, but the Silent Generation entitlement *****s are already sucking hard, our fedgov is inviting foreign entitlement *****s to live off of us, and the next generation of retired entitlement *****s coming along (Boomers) will break it completely.
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"Even a dog knows the difference between being stumbled over and being kicked." -Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
"Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." -Samuel Adams
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Rd
Posts: 466
Incept: 2008-02-27
Long Island, NY
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The next major political party will be the Pillow Party
Here in New York the Government Unions have the members well trained to deny the math, when going over the math with them they eventually say get the needed pension money from tax's. The fight will be something to watch.
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Stonedog
Posts: 2080
Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Tesla - that's a good point - the only reason I choose to mention Boomers is that the "gentleman" had only recently retired... which made be believe that he was a Boomer. I stand correct.
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"I would characterize my professional disdain as more of a professional contempt for their [Central Banker, Banker and politician] economic and financial policies, priorities, presumptions and prescriptions." - Lauren Lyster on Capital Account for Friday June 16, 2012
"All the stimulus, the bailouts, the quantit
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Ben
Posts: 6175
Incept: 2009-10-09
The Distant, Glorious, Past
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They simply do not care.
They paid in, they have a balance, it is their money and they want it so that they may sit at home, not work, watch TV all day, go to the doctor once a week, and nap the rest of the time.
This will destroy the country.
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"Why are you going to learn French?" "Because I'm going to France," says Joe. "I'm from the future. You should go to China."
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Flappingeagle
Posts: 1224
Incept: 2011-04-14
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Quote:Actually, if we don't cut this crap out they're going to tell us with guns, pitchforks and torches -- or simply by refusing to work at all. When they all just sit on their asses and say, btw shove those student loans, it'll be over. Student loans in a way, are a mechanism for the government to use to demand that you work. It will not work though because the people will just refuse to cooperate. As for blaming the silent generation vs the baby boomers, blame both, they were/are both going along with the scheme. Flap
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Here are my predictions for everyone to see: S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu. "You can't build a house of cards on a shaking table." - Tony Johns The January 2015 AMZN put at $130 (cost $4.25) will be a winner.
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Flyingillini
Posts: 87
Incept: 2009-06-09
Reno, NV
Online
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Quite simply, there is no hope for it to ever be fixed. The FSA (and this includes people on SS and medicare) thinks they are entitled to all this crap. It has grown to the point where they outnumber sane people, and they will never willingly give it up. Its just a matter of voting numbers at this point.
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Dazedncornfused
Posts: 310
Incept: 2010-10-13
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The latest number being bandied about is 100 million individuals are receiving some sort of Federal level welfare - exclusive of those receiving just Social Security and Medicare.
That figure is actually much higher, because it also doesn't include those who are working a job at least partially funded from the Feds. That would include every public school teacher, employees at colleges and universities (can you say student loans), highway repair projects, the state administration of EBT cards, police (they get bonus dollars for drunk driving and DV arrests), fire depts (Rural Development is now funding most all truck and equip purchases) Rural Dev funds most senior bldgs and park construction... The list is staggering. It's all the largesse from the Fed Reserve winding up in everyone's pockets.
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Stand up and be counted or line up and be numbered.
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Mayorquimby
Posts: 13907
Incept: 2008-09-18
The Archaic Past
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Save as much cash as you can because the fight over whatever you earn in the future will be EPIC.
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They who wish to hurt you, work within the law. - Morrissey
Gold is theft.
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Debtpie
Posts: 534
Incept: 2009-12-17
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Quote: ...but more importantly if you did this the next year nobody would make more than $249,999 since they would get to keep none of it! I wonder what effect that would have on those 8 Figure CEO salaries? What a trajedy...it would put an end to $23 Million payday for the CEO of Starbucks, while the workers there earn $15,000 with ZERO benefits... That's the problem folks...how we solve it, I'm all ears... Companies like Starbucks shift enormous amounts of the profits into the upper managements pockets while shifting the real cost of employing people onto the backs of the taxpayers. At an average salary of $15,000 a year, every Starbucks Barista qualifies for "Free" medical care through Medicaid along with all the other welfare freebees. The CEO walks with $23,000,000 and the Tax Payer gets the bills for his employees health and welfare...and Romney wants to put more money into the CEO's pockets? I'm not for 100% tax rates, but with people like Romney and Buffet paying 14% or less, something is wrong there in that the "profits' they've earned have largely come from shifting business employee expenses to the taxpayer...we should put an end to that...If the CEO's want the taxpayer to pick up the health care tab of his employees, then lets take the cost out of his pay...As Karl says, either we tax to match spending or we pull back spending...
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A Leader, or an Opportunist? "A leader has the capacity of vision, the ability to see where things are headed before people in general see those things." Mitt Romney --- DebtPie's definition: a leader decides where "things" should head and "leads" us there.
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Ben
Posts: 6175
Incept: 2009-10-09
The Distant, Glorious, Past
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The voting numbers of retired voters, nothing to do but vote and think about politics, is exploding and means that everyone is now voting themselves others money.
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"Why are you going to learn French?" "Because I'm going to France," says Joe. "I'm from the future. You should go to China."
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Tesla
Posts: 15541
Incept: 2008-04-03
State of Disbelief
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The "real" cost of employing people is completely driven by laws and regulations. You can look at current labor laws and regulations today to determine what people will do going forward. Mandate that any company with 50+ employees pay health insurance ? Structure your company so you only have 49. Regulations apply to companies with more than 15 employees ? Solution - have only 15 or fewer.
A salary is only the beginning cost of the federal, state and local gov rope around your neck.
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"Even a dog knows the difference between being stumbled over and being kicked." -Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
"Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." -Samuel Adams
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Bluebird
Posts: 1380
Incept: 2008-05-02
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It isn't just the boomers or silents, but also the genXrs and the teens. It's most everyone, and just about anyone who has a credit card.
My 30-something daughter-in-law is an example of the spoiled princess who must have whatever she wants, and she has got to have it NOW. Credit cards always being used. Out of all of the people I know, she will be the one who will be the most distraught and angry when this system collapses.
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Mayorquimby
Posts: 13907
Incept: 2008-09-18
The Archaic Past
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All a credit card does is give you say $10K of additional purchasing power in the near term at the expense of reducing your purchasing power by say $500 a month for a decade or more.
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They who wish to hurt you, work within the law. - Morrissey
Gold is theft.
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Skoolmarm
Posts: 23
Incept: 2011-05-26
fl/tenn
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I can understand how hurt your parents must have been. That's because my oldest son and I had a similar conversation, and he told me it wasn't right that his tax money was being used to support his old man.
Of course, he was perfectly willing to collect HIS SS and M/C when the time came.
Oh, did I neglect to mention that he, his wife, and 2 children had been living with us in our house for 8 years paying no rent or utilities? The only reason I didn't toss him was because of my grandbabies.
BTW, I don't dispute your math; only the tenor of your message. And I'm sure your folks weren't supporting you.
So I guess we need to prepare to be thrown under the bus, or set adrift on an iceflow. Do they still do that?
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Yaldor
Posts: 2687
Incept: 2008-05-17
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For every crash the probability of someone showing that he predicted it is near 1 . For every prediction of an imminent crash the probability of it being correct is almost zero
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Mdm
Posts: 332
Incept: 2010-10-13
South Florida
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Quote:So I guess we need to prepare to be thrown under the bus, or set adrift on an iceflow. Do they still do that? No, I would just prepare to face your mortality and that if you need a triple bypass at 90 years old that Medicare is going to say no.
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Genesis
Posts: 130677
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Quote:What a trajedy...it would put an end to $23 Million payday for the CEO of Starbucks, while the workers there earn $15,000 with ZERO benefits...
That's the problem folks...how we solve it, I'm all ears...
Companies like Starbucks shift enormous amounts of the profits into the upper managements pockets while shifting the real cost of employing people onto the backs of the taxpayers. Uh, sorry. Starbucks has ~37,000 employees. If you took all but one of the $23 million from the CEO and paid the workers with the other $22 million you would increase the $15,000 salary by a total of less than $12/week. It's a nice fantasy that simply redistributing (by force?) the CEO's pay down to the workers would "fix the problem", but the truth is that it is a fantasy.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Yaldor
Posts: 2687
Incept: 2008-05-17
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Gen,
If you look at only the CEO pay at Starbucks - of course you are right.
But look at all those on wall street, the city (noy just the top five in every firm - but all of the banksters) and the Saudi investors - this is where the big money is . These are the people who robbed the whole world . We need to redistribute what was stolen from the people. It is no longer an issue of paying employees (as the in Starbucks case) but of taking punitive damages to restore what was stolen from the whole nation and the whole word using a century of inflation.
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For every crash the probability of someone showing that he predicted it is near 1 . For every prediction of an imminent crash the probability of it being correct is almost zero
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Skoolmarm
Posts: 23
Incept: 2011-05-26
fl/tenn
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"No, I would just prepare to face your mortality and that if you need a triple bypass at 90 years old that Medicare is going to say no." And I agree they should.
I've been prepared to face mortality for a long time. And I can't imagine going thru that at 90.
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Crzymorse
Posts: 1184
Incept: 2010-06-25
Maryland
Online
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A quick comment on taxes. When income taxes get too high the benefits to the upper class come in different ways than salary. Meals, travel, conferences and increased vacation time start to make up for the income difference. It's a way to skirt the taxes without changing your lifestyle.
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Debtpie
Posts: 534
Incept: 2009-12-17
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Quote:It's a nice fantasy that simply redistributing (by force?) the CEO's pay down to the workers would "fix the problem", but the truth is that it is a fantasy. You're correct...but that's not my (total) point...my point is that the management of Starbucks is shifting the true cost of it's workforce onto the taxpayers. Only through the shifting of expenses to the taxpayers does Starbucks "earn" enough profit to pay the CEO $23,000,000 a year. If we want taxpayers to subsidize businesses to preserve those 8 figure CEO salaries, and if we also want to end deficit spending, then we must tax Starbucks enough to cover the costs it's shifting to us. I know, I know...that would shut them down...so in the end...my point is that our whole system is F'd up...and the "Romney Plan" to give tax breaks to the wealthiest is a big FAIL.
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A Leader, or an Opportunist? "A leader has the capacity of vision, the ability to see where things are headed before people in general see those things." Mitt Romney --- DebtPie's definition: a leader decides where "things" should head and "leads" us there.
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