Knight Capital (KCG) Appears To Be A Winner
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-08-03 14:41
by Karl Denninger
in Company Specific
Ignore this thread
Knight Capital (KCG) Appears To Be A Winner
 

Knight Capital (KCG), known as the firm that was the Knightmare on Wall Street the other day, now appears to be poised to survive.

TD Ameritrade and Scottrade are reported to have resumed routing to the company.  The loss-making their errant program caused, however, might have, by happenstance, turned into a winner.

That is, if they had any long positions still open.

Why?  Because an awful lot of stocks are higher now than they were when they had their "accident."

The potential irony if the company winds up with a much smaller loss than they counted on originally as a result of not immediately "clearing the deck" when the problem was discovered, would be an amusing footnote -- happenstance manages to save them -- instead of sink them.

Possible?  Not very likely, but possible, yes.

(Ed: It was reported late this afternoon that they shopped the entire bad book to Goldman, thus crystallizing the loss.  Oh well.)

In any event it appears that the company will survive.  Last night I put out a video (available to forum gold donors, as is the usual for my most-trading-night videos) in which I noted a potential for an all-on market collapse out of this event, requiring one specific thing to have happened that some people were rumoring to have happened but for which there was no evidence

The genesis of that might have been some musings by other, responsible people, who simply asked "what if."  But the Internet rumor machine was another matter, and the chatter became quite loud and was likely responsible for a big part of the sell-off yesterday.

My analysis pointed out that if that event had occurred then you may as well just short everything -- or just bend over and kiss it goodbye, as the old boogieman "counterparty risk" was about to show up in spades. 

However, my analysis discounted the probability of this rumor being true because there was neither motive or opportunity for the company to have done the requisite evil thing.

As it turns out it appears I was right in this regard.  I bought a little speculative slug as a short-term trade, looking at it as an option that doesn't expire.

This afternoon I'm grinning, and I hope you are too.

Disclosure: Long KCG, although with this sort of gain and my intent -- a "quick hit" -- I may take the money before the bell.

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User Info Knight Capital (KCG) Appears To Be A Winner in forum [Market-Ticker]
Asimov
Posts: 104039
Incept: 2007-08-26
Gold
East Tennessee Eastern Time
Online
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I sold half my initial position from last night for almost a double. So I've got half left that's "free money."

I think I'm gonna hang onto it too... though I'm not positive yet. Hard to look at a double and say "let it ride." Even if it's free money.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.
If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
Thesev
Posts: 1382
Incept: 2007-10-30
Gold
Louisiana
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Same here. Wheee?

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The reason the republic isn't working is that it's being run as a democracy.

It doesn't matter who you are, or who you Think you are, the Math is Going to Win.
Matt_bear
Posts: 6359
Incept: 2008-07-15
Gold
a week early on spy puts
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Asi-

my take is that the stock dump was because the company was going under.

They were a $10 stock. If business is back to normal, rumors are false, and the loss doesn't wipe them out....i don't see why you can't stick it in the long term hold category.

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In terms of real-world fundamentals, I expect that most of the people around me, whom I work with day to day, and whom I pass on the street ... will be dead within five years.
Ramthebulls
Posts: 10860
Incept: 2007-09-24
Gold A True American Patriot!
Queens, NY
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Matt ... still hard to see it going much past five, certainly not past 6. It was ten before, but 4 is gone from the trading loss ... and now we now that the trading loss was crystallized at 440M due to the sale of the bad positions to GS. Earnings power is reduced to a significant degree due to the loss of customers ... most may return, but certainly some will stay away. They still have to raise cash too, which is going to result in either a high interest loan or dilution unless they sell themselves off fully, in which case it will not be a long term hold ;)

Disclosure: Long KCG from the mid 4s cost basis and thanking my lucky stars that I am not going to eat a massive loss.

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Umbrage is like love. No matter how much someone takes, there's always more for you to give.
Musicandnature
Posts: 1954
Incept: 2007-12-05
Gold
NJ
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darn I was thinking of getting some premarket it was 2.40 but got sidetracked then went to work and forgot.

Gen the official release from yd says "Knight has traded out of its entire erroneous trade position, which has resulted in a realized pre-tax loss of approximately $440 million. Although the company's capital base has been severely impacted, the company's broker/dealer subsidiaries are in full compliance with their net capital requirements."

Not sure if you had seen it. http://www.knight.com/investorRelations/....

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Since it costs a lot to win, and even more to lose, You and me bound to spend some time wonder'n what to choose. Goes to show, you don't ever know, watch each card you play and play it slow...Wait until that deal come round, don't you let that deal go down, no no. Garcia/Hunter.
Ramthebulls
Posts: 10860
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Gold A True American Patriot!
Queens, NY
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Music: And more specifically it came out late this afternoon that they shopped off the whole errant book of trades to Goldman at that set price, thus locking in the size of the loss. That is how they could give an exact loss quote even though the trades had not yet been unwound.

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Umbrage is like love. No matter how much someone takes, there's always more for you to give.
Genesis
Posts: 130772
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
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Well, then it is what it is. Oops.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Funnymoney
Posts: 117
Incept: 2008-01-24
Silver
cali
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picked a good time to get g star back, best trade in 2012 for me ty karl
Genesis
Posts: 130772
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
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'Yer welcome smiley

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Sean
Posts: 1766
Incept: 2009-04-21

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TITF? (Too Important To Fail)

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* I think Ann Barnhardt is more and more right. God help us!
* Progressives / Marxists / Communists are many things, STUPID and IMPATIENT are not two of them.
* A hot civil war is coming.
* And people wonder why I prep!
Genesis
Posts: 130772
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
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No, just not the conspiracy that a bunch of Internet crooners thought it was, among a few other things.

Sometimes a ****up is just a ****up.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Preidt2
Posts: 552
Incept: 2009-07-31
Green
spokane/wash
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I cannot tell what is real anymore,and the market is up over 200 points W T F

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Puppets Under Destruction
Jb3171
Posts: 553
Incept: 2008-02-17
Green
San Diego
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Doomsday gambler calls now. Sweet. It's like Yahoo around here now.
Zarathustra
Posts: 5961
Incept: 2009-04-29
Silver A True American Patriot!
Funkytown
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It's funny how the market "corrects" itself when negative rumors are proven false, but never when the positive rumors(Europe SAVED)are proven outright lies or worse.....

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"And in knowing that you know nothing, that makes you the smartest of all." - Socrates
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