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| To Spain: Bite Me! in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Deejunk
Posts: 715
Incept: 2008-10-11
Now DC - Solar Power.
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Will the sheeple be content with the austerity required for such a solution? 
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Preidt2
Posts: 552
Incept: 2009-07-31
spokane/wash
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access to markets....what is talking about ? Another blower blow blow...we pay to be lied to
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Puppets Under Destruction
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Savingsaretheway
Posts: 118
Incept: 2011-12-16
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The problem is that the enforcement of a balanced budget is politically impossible, as there's too many people in the western world who are either directly or indirectly dependent on government for income.
We're just going to continue driving 100mph toward the cliff. The likes of Italy and Spain have slowed down to about 80mph with the austerity measures they've taken, but the result will be the same.
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Mannfm11
Posts: 3535
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
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If I recall, rates in 2007 here were around 5.25% on 10 year bonds. These were throught to be low rates, as prior to 1998, I hadn't seen rate under 5% in my adult life.
The question that has to arise here is, who the hell says 6% is a high rate? It was absolutely normal and in fact on the low scale for THE ABSOLUTE MAJORITY OF EVERY ONE OF THESE ****ERS LIVES THAT MAKES DECISIONS IN GOVERNMENT
I will get into my own math here. These jackasses are rate bound. If they want 5% nominal economic growth year after year, 5% is probably the minimum they are going to pay to borrow money. This includes the USA, Japan and Germany, which are as range bound as the rest and only priced low due to risk around the world. If these people want to inflate GDP growth, they are to have to pay for it. Chances are just as good they will destroy the village as save it.
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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Mannfm11
Posts: 3535
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
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I disagree savings. You can't spend what doesn't exist and if you suck the other side dry, that will be the end of politics. The great secret is banking and politics are partners in crime. Deficit spending wouldn't be possible without banks.
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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Crzymorse
Posts: 1186
Incept: 2010-06-25
Maryland
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Ignoring the fact Spain ran budget surpluses for most of the 2000's until it's housing bubble crumbled they have been more responsible than us. It's a shame the irresponsible lending of Spanish banks, blew a hole in the budget when the economy tanked. Backstopping the banks with taxpayer money on top of the real estate market crashing drove them to borrow so much money. The banks and people with assets get bailed out (probably move their money to USTs) and the citizens of Spain get hosed, they get the bad assets and have to pay for them, so the same people that get bailed out turnaround and bend them over. No planet we live on.
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Deejunk
Posts: 715
Incept: 2008-10-11
Now DC - Solar Power.
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Mann - disagree. If you understood leverage... spending/loaning money that does NOT exist is what bankers do every day it WILL be possible until the day it all blows the hell up
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Frat
Posts: 1934
Incept: 2009-07-15
NKY
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Quote: There is no solution to the problems being faced in Europe, and which will come here to the United States sooner rather than later, other than for governments to stop spending money they cannot tax from their citizens. Karl, it really IS that "simple." I wish the someone would have the balls to explain this to John Q Public - someone with power and a voice, that is. For example... The ****ing president. However, besides being a spineless bitch who purposely CATERS to the leech****s-at-large, Obama either doesn't believe it or doesn't give a flying **** about saving this country. He expects to rule - not lead, RULE - no matter the outcome. And... If anyone WITH said power and voice said the above, they'd lose their influence almost immediately. No.... no, unfortunately, there's no way out of this but through pain - and not the lesser, SELF-inflicted pain. We're going to crash this bitch going full throttle at the time. I'm just wondering should I max out all available credit first to buy physical supplies that will help my family make it through. Debt be damned at that point.
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We're ****ed. Where's Henry Bowman when you need him?
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Blurtman
Posts: 563
Incept: 2009-01-24
Banned
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Future earnings and wealth are the natural resoruces to be harvested in the present and exploited by the financial industrial complex until there ain't no more. Happened with lumber, seafood, you name it, and it is happening now with future wealth.
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I have a reading comprehension problem and the owner banned me for repeatedly displaying it after being warned.
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Highrev
Posts: 5024
Incept: 2009-02-21
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They're implementing cutbacks.
They'd like to implement more, but they run the risk of further perpetuating the vicious cycle of economic contraction.
The more they cut back, the greater the risk that recession turns into depression.
They've got a "bridge loan" mentality: get the job done slowly but surely, and hopefully along with an economic upturn that brings increased State revenues. You don't stop spending more than you tax in a day. It's, I dare say, a revolutionary idea that takes time to inculcate and implement.
That's Spain's strategy. Cut back what you can without committing suicide. If the economic contraction gets deeper, the cutbacks will also get deeper, IN THAT ORDER. No way in hell they are going to give the Socialists the opportunity to blame them for "causing" a depression.
This is a high stakes game we're talking about. We're talking about a key turning point in Spain's history that will shape decades to come. Rajoy is one of the few master politicians on the current world stage (and I know that is not something to be said and taken lightly). He is a master at knowing what's possible and when it's possible, and he never bites off more than he can chew.
Don't underestimate Rajoy and the PP. They are well aware of their do or die situation and what the limits are to their day-to-day actions (if I didn't know better, I would say they are practitioners of Sun Tzu), and they are committed to staying the course no matter what, accepting all possible outcomes. This is just too big to be taken lightly. These are Thomas Payne types in action.
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Deejunk
Posts: 715
Incept: 2008-10-11
Now DC - Solar Power.
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High -- risk of depression??? we are already there. FOOL!
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Mrbill
Posts: 7842
Incept: 2008-10-19
North Carolina
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Running a surplus at the national level was only possible because the banks and local governments were doing all the spending and borrowing.
It's like one big off balance sheet party.
The surplus was a lie. Don't fall for that Krugman crap line.
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Ilyachern
Posts: 796
Incept: 2007-06-26
North Miami Beach Florida
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They are not implementing anything. The market is forcing a tiny bit of sanity on them and they are screaming like a heroin addict in severe withdrawl.
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The Fed won't be winding down their balance sheet. Their balance sheet will be winding down the Fed.
Level 9 9/23/09
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 2655
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
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They are going to print, nothing has changed. They may have some squabbles in the meantime but all will lead to additional printing.
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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Mannfm11
Posts: 3535
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
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dejunk, how can you disagree. I never said anything about bankers save for they and politicians were partners in crime. Government runs off the revenue of bubbles. If you don't understand that, you will never unwind how this thing works. Spain was running on bubbles from cheap financing. I happen to have studied finance for the past 40 plus years. I have traded on high margin. That is leverage. It doesn't take too much to lose your shirt. What are the politicians begging to happen? More bank lending. More leverage means more cash flow which means more money for them to blow. You won't get an argument from me in favor of credit banking. It is a ponzi scheme that sucks in property. They collect something out of nothing. If not for deposit insurance, the whole scheme would have collapsed years ago. What we circulate is bank credit. If the scheme fails, it is quite possible the lights don't work in a matter of a few days. Currency is bank paper. It has always been bank paper. It was leveraged off gold. We haven't lived in a leverage free economy for close to 200 years. The banker controlled government merely found a way to take it to the next level. http://mises.org/daily/6069/An-Austrian-....
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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