| User Info
| REAL ID: The REAL Travesty in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Kajet
Posts: 30
Incept: 2011-11-13
Warsaw, Poland
Banned
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Oh well. Welcome to Europe.
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Twainfan
Posts: 148
Incept: 2010-12-01
Minnesota
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My license expires this fall.... been real tempted to not renew it. I never get pulled over anyway. And I've been reading the cases like Chicago motor coach case.... I don't like the idea of any govt having those databases. I don't want my SS number, drivers license, medical records or anything else left with any govt.
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Aethor
Posts: 132
Incept: 2011-11-15
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Hmm wait... two issues here confuse me:
1) The government gives you your SS number in the first place, so it already has it in a db, whether you get this "real id" or not
Also, the government issues your passport, so it already has all the data contained in there in its db.
This does pose the risks you mentioned, but how does "real id" add to it? The risk existed already.
2) Recompense - this is an issue with anything related to government, not only real id. Whatever material loss or injury the government does to you, it can only use that money to recompense you, which has been taken from other taxpayers. The people who actually caused it will not pay it out of their pocket.
This is, therefore, an issue not specifically tied to a "real id" but to anything the government might do. And IMO the only solution is that in each such case, the recompense comes first from the personal pocket of those government employees who were involved, and from their superiors, and only after they have been stripped of their assets to the point of bankruptcy, if there is still more need for recompensation, the remainder can be taken from the government funds.
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Peteb
Posts: 128
Incept: 2010-11-16
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This is the real deal...outstanding synopsis of what is going on
A long time ago I heard someone say "Anything that can be done, will be done." For a long time I thought that might apply in on or two situations.
It applies all the time. Unconstitutional acts that make you a slave will happen, it just takes time. Thieves getting your personal information from government will happen, it just takes time.
And to the popular mind, Real ID makes your life better, when doing nothing would have served everyone better.
Another quote "All of life's problems can be traced to the inability of people to do nothing." Descartes...
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Duc888
Posts: 7368
Incept: 2008-11-06
CT, the UNconstitution State
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It's all driven by sociopathic behavior. The compulsive need to tread on others in all way, shape and forms.
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...burp
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Noodleman
Posts: 2393
Incept: 2008-11-01
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Why even go through the motions to enact laws purported to detect illegals anymore? The SCOTUS just struck down most of the important elements in Arizona's SB 1070. Obama used executive privilege to basically give amnesty to illegals under age 31. So what it comes down to is that the feds won't enforce the immigration laws - and the states are prohibited from doing so - which will result in more illegal invaders saturating the country. Even the republicans are tucking their tails between their legs now due to the voting power. They punish Arizona for trying to protect itself from illegal invaders - yet do nothing to the dozen or so urban areas that have declared themselves to be official sanctuary havens for illegals openly defying Federal immigration laws. Why not just open the borders and get it over with??? We've already reached the tipping point and it matters not what the majority of the people want anymore anyway. I guess the time has come to learn Spanish. Effectively, we've been conquered.
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"Ammunition beats persuasion when you are looking for freedom." Will Rogers, 4 Nov 1879 - 15 Aug 1935
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2dogs
Posts: 2941
Incept: 2009-03-25
Land of the Lost
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+1 Noodleman.
What's the point of REAL ID? Obama and Congress are giving illegals amnesty, anyway.
ETA: ...and now add SCOTUS to that.
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You can't defeat the combined effects of massive voter fraud, the Free **** Army, and the entire bought and paid for media complex. This nation is done.
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Wis/min
Posts: 5364
Incept: 2009-08-14
On the border
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The SCOTUS upheld the Arizona provision to inquire of the immigration status of those stopped for legal reasons.
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Ignorantsavage
Posts: 702
Incept: 2007-11-27
united States
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What fundamental resources are available to novices to learn about freedom to travel? The Declaration implies this via the right of "liberty", but I don't personally have any explicit resources for showing this to another.
The earliest American acknowledgement I can find is in Article Four of the Articles of Confederation, but since those were done away with in a coup, I don't see how it is of much use today except to explain the minds of the Founders.
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Noodleman
Posts: 2393
Incept: 2008-11-01
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"The SCOTUS upheld the Arizona provision to inquire of the immigration status of those stopped for legal reasons"
So?
Did you see which sections that were struck down by the SCOTUS?
1. The provision making it a crime for an illegal immigrant to work or to seek work in Arizona
2. The provision which authorized state and local officers to arrest people without a warrant if the officers have probable cause to believe a person is an illegal immigrant
So even if the local cop learns that the person in question is an illegal there is virtually nothing he can do about it. I guess he can call ICE and request an ICE cop to show up and take the illegal into custody. Figure the odds of that happening. And illegals can work or seek work in Arizona and there's not a damn thing that the state can do to stop it.
It's over. They won. It's time we faced the facts.
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"Ammunition beats persuasion when you are looking for freedom." Will Rogers, 4 Nov 1879 - 15 Aug 1935
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Cetera
Posts: 77
Incept: 2009-05-21
Wyoming
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Wis/min wrote..he SCOTUS upheld the Arizona provision to inquire of the immigration status of those stopped for legal reasons.
Yes, but they took away their ability to do anything about it. Arizona can ask. After finding out that they are illegal, Arizona can not arrest them or detain them for being illegal, unless it is to turn them over to ICE, who will then simply release them. With the rulings, Arizona cannot make illegal immigration a state criminal offense, nor can they make it illegal for illegals to work in the state. Only the feds can do that. Arizona can document good and well which individuals are illegal, and they can then waive that information around like the neutered impotents they now are. For now. Until they do implement it, and it can be demonstrated that it leads to racial profiling and discrimination based on race or color. Then SCOTUS can strike it down more completely later.
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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!
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Jimg
Posts: 180
Incept: 2009-02-04
Dunedin, FL
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My wife and I went though this last year. They scanned everything, gave us back the originals and renewed our licenses. Then a couple of days later, we get a call saying that they had LOST the scanned images and we had to return to do it all over again or they would cancel our licenses! That was confidence inspiring!
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Mgpacher
Posts: 142
Incept: 2011-03-03
Indiana
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I do not know if Indiana has Real ID or not. I renewed my license in 2009. It was in and out in a few minutes. The big difference was I had to remove my glasses and no hair can be hanging over the face. Previously my SSN had been my driver ID number, or at least it was on the card. Now the SSN has been removed from the card. Same goes for my VA ID card and my military ID card.
Since Indiana has always required a SSN, that is nothing different with Real ID. And, of course, BMV has always had my birth date. I guess what I am saying is the BMV has added no new data to what it already had compiled on me.
My son needed an ID card in 2011. He needed to show two pieces of mailed addresses to him and his birth certificate and SSN card. Again we were in and out in no time. And no charge for the ID.
And as many already know, in Indiana we need to show a government issued photo ID at the voting place. I have always been asked for my drivers license. It is really just a nothing thing.
What are the dangers in this ID business? Well, if an agency compiles an electronic database, there is always the possibility that the database will be hacked by criminals and the data stolen. The case could also be made that a government that knows everything about every person is a dangerous government. Trouble is that I think I already gave up everything years ago. I have nothing new to give.
I think the push now is for the government to validate the data it already has on us. It does not want to just take our word on our birth date, SSN, and residence any more.
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Ignorantsavage
Posts: 702
Incept: 2007-11-27
united States
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It is a "papers, please" problem, and a serious one. Rights are not subject to demands by government for papers in order to exercise such rights.
The right to travel, considered to be longstanding and fundamental to our nation as recognized in US vs Guest, is illegally infringed when demands are made to present credentials in order to actually travel. Have you investigated the remaining travel methods left where government agents demand that papers be provided either to them or to private parties as a requirement to travel? Can't drive, stand/walk (see Hiibel case out of Nevada), travel by bus or plane (see papersplease.org for the Gilmore case); I'd suspect that even travel by horse requires a driver's license by now.
So, we have a nationwide mandated ID card program known as REAL ID. How is that any different from an internal passport (if you don't have a REAL ID-compliant card, you need a passport to fly internally across the US), such as were used by Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany?
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Id1775
Posts: 15
Incept: 2011-12-12
Atlanta
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REAL ID has RFID imbedded in the license. Carrying your license in your pocket "offers" those with intent the ability (unless you shield your license) to read your RFID chip as you go about your business. Of course, we've all been "tagged" with our cell phones by now, so it's not like we're anonymous these days. Regardless, putting the RFID in your state drivers license is one step closer to chipping a sovereign individual, just a lesser degree.
In the world of incremental loss of Liberty and Freedom, REAL ID is another notch in that endeavor brought to you by those you were supposed to have only been loaned the power to govern.
As GEN stated, so few have a grasp of what the Constitution actually affords the Citizen, and in that group is certainly the vermin of government who took the job for the power it affords them. Ask anyone what the Constitution does, and after the distorted facial expression fades, throw 'em a bone and ask them if it gives the government power to affect Citizen's lives. They'll chase that bone right into rush hour traffic.
I checked the GA DMV site, and REAL ID is mentioned, yet not one word about RFID imbedded in the license, nor the ability to have that data read when in proximity to readers, and certainly no mention of the suggestion to protect the license with a shielding sleeve when on your person.
Sure, the data is available in databases, but I see a greater "threat" from having your license on you, being scanned/read at seemingly innocuous locations to tabulate your whereabouts.
The irony is that gov't vermin just gave the kiss of appeasement to some 800,000 illegals and banned the ability to question any of their motives, while Americans who are law-abiding and trying to live normal lives in an increasingly abnormal world will be paying for the stealth tracking of themselves!
Orwell was a prophet.
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Mianmike
Posts: 68
Incept: 2008-01-24
US
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Excuse my ignorance, but what Constitutional amendment gives persons the right to travel? I've found some case law, but nothing in the constitution. I must have missed something. Thanks
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Genesis
Posts: 130798
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Gives?
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Adrenaline_junky
Posts: 1869
Incept: 2007-09-14
Chicago
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LOL
Yea, could someone point out which part of the Constitution specifically gives us the right to breathe and exhale? Without this spelled out I think we should do our civic duty and suffocate.
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"If Goldman Sachs is doing God's work, they must be referring to the cruel God of the Old Testament who brought forth plagues, floods, and pestilence." - Me
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Genesis
Posts: 130798
Incept: 2007-06-26
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PS: there is no rfid chip in Florida driver licenses.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Mortgageguymn
Posts: 1566
Incept: 2009-03-09
North Coast
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Off topic (sort of), but have you written anything about voter photo ID, Karl?
I'm inclined to favor it - not because it will dissuade many fake voters but because it will make it harder for a corrupt precinct judge (or several) to run a couple hundred extra ballots through the optical scanner machine and wipe their tracks by adding an equal number of fake (and unreadable) signatures on the voter roll.
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Genesis
Posts: 130798
Incept: 2007-06-26
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I have no quarrel with requiring Id to vote
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Phxkevin
Posts: 353
Incept: 2010-06-25
Phoenix Arizona
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I have a quarrel with requiring ID to vote, with requiring ID to travel, with requiring ID to operate a non-commercial vehicle.
(I'm on the fence about commercial drviers and all state licensing for "professions". I don't care if my doctor or hairstylist or plumber have to pass a test. Lets not even get started with the continuing education racket needed to "maintain" your license.)
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Congress persons are all the same, republican or democrat, conservative or liberal. They talk a good game, but the results (or lack thereof) show something different.
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Mo
Posts: 12158
Incept: 2007-06-26
Pa.
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The purpose of this kind of law is to hassle people. Period.
My sister in Tampa has a bunch of looney tune friends who can't get it together enough to acutally gather the documents to renew their license. So they're driving around without one. These are basically Obama voters, FSA types and this requirement is just too hard for them.
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Welcome to Pottersville
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Genesis
Posts: 130798
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Quote:
I have a quarrel with requiring ID to vote
You have to be a citizen to vote. I don't care how you prove it, but you should have to be able to prove it.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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