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| It Didn't Work (Again) in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Flappingeagle
Posts: 1229
Incept: 2011-04-14
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I keep reminding myself of something that was posted on one of the forums some months ago in relation to a personal story; Quote: We went broke slowly at first, then all at once. If our (and other's) politicians don't stop trying to talk away the problems and take some real action then that is what we are going to be saying in the future. Right now it seems like events keep unfolding at a snail's pace but one day things will suddenly seem to be unfolding at lightning speed. When that will be only God knows but, it does seem like the 'saves' of the last week or two are only lasting for a day or two before they wear off... Flap
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Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
"You can't build a house of cards on a shaking table." - Tony Johns
The January 2015 AMZN put at $130 (cost $4.25) will be a winner.
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Nevertoolate
Posts: 1222
Incept: 2007-08-26
San Antonio de Bexar de runover with illegals, Texas
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Wait until the people over here in the US start pulling the same stuff on their credit cards! They better get started because if they don't hurry, credit will be cut off and they will have missed their final opportunity to "stick it to the banks".
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"Socialist never mind stealing, as long as they are the ones doing the stealing. They never mind lying, as long as they are doing the lying."-Mannfm11
Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure that you can survive the odds beating you.
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Mo
Posts: 12158
Incept: 2007-06-26
Pa.
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Quote:In Greece, and elsewhere in Europe, there is a developing story (not yet reported) where people are simply charging everything on their credit cards and have no intention of paying any of it -- ever. Hasn't this been the problem all along? Is there something new developing?
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Welcome to Pottersville
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Toddmeister
Posts: 34
Incept: 2009-08-10
Bay City, MI
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Never, I think it has already started here in the U.S. too
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Nevertoolate
Posts: 1222
Incept: 2007-08-26
San Antonio de Bexar de runover with illegals, Texas
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It may just be people "living" off their cards. I see more and more cards being declined when I am at the checkout at the grocery store. I am talking about maxing them out and intentionally stop paying all of them at exactly the same time. Everyone who is in up to their neck in debt will look at this as their final means to "get even". Stategic default. They just screen calls coming in on their phones and don't answer any number they don't recognize. At some point the recovery of the debt will be so low that the collection agencies will start having lay offs.
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"Socialist never mind stealing, as long as they are the ones doing the stealing. They never mind lying, as long as they are doing the lying."-Mannfm11
Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure that you can survive the odds beating you.
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Leicestersq
Posts: 221
Incept: 2009-10-12
UK
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Is there any beef for that story that people are using their credit cards to the max with no intent to repay?
I speculated on another ticker that Greece was inventing deposits, so that insiders could then transfer those false deposits abroad and collect real money. I am still struggling to find a reason why this cannot happen now that all the checks that were in place have been taken away.
Lending unsecured is a very risky business. All lending requires some way of 'hurting' the borrower in case of default. Without that threat of pain, there can be no lending on a sustainable basis.
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Nevertoolate
Posts: 1222
Incept: 2007-08-26
San Antonio de Bexar de runover with illegals, Texas
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I love Santelli. Give the Greek economy an "enema" by defauting on their debt. It doesn't get much better than that.
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"Socialist never mind stealing, as long as they are the ones doing the stealing. They never mind lying, as long as they are doing the lying."-Mannfm11
Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure that you can survive the odds beating you.
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Flappingeagle
Posts: 1229
Incept: 2011-04-14
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Quote:It may just be people "living" off their cards. I see more and more cards being declined when I am at the checkout at the grocery store. I am talking about maxing them out and intentionally stop paying all of them at exactly the same time. Everyone who is in up to their neck in debt will look at this as their final means to "get even". Stategic default. They just screen calls coming in on their phones and don't answer any number they don't recognize. At some point the recovery of the debt will be so low that the collection agencies will start having lay offs. I would not be surprised at all to learn that a number of people, realizing that they were going to go broke, used their last access to credit as a way to build up a nest-egg to carry them thru the BK process. It would seem logical to me, although not moral, to charge up all you could on the CC's, especially if you could convert it to cash, and then BK. I know that you could always charge up a lot of non-perishable food and since food is a big part of the budget if you are broke it would seem to be a viable if immoral strategy. Flap
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Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
"You can't build a house of cards on a shaking table." - Tony Johns
The January 2015 AMZN put at $130 (cost $4.25) will be a winner.
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Iamedwardteach
Posts: 796
Incept: 2011-09-18
Online
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“The government cannot spend more than it taxes. No government. Not here, not in Spain, not in Greece, not anywhere.
Period.”
Says it all. I wish it were plastered all over the place, T shirts, bumper stickers, billboards, etc…..Heck hold down our elected congress critters and tattoo it on their foreheads.
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"FACT: WHEN THE DRAFT OF YOUR VESSEL EXCEEDS THE DEPTH OF THE WATER, YOU ARE MOST ASSUREDLY... AGROUND!"
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Trades50
Posts: 4218
Incept: 2007-10-30
Land of Tax and Spend
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Quote: I see more and more cards being declined when I am at the checkout at the grocery store. I have witnessed this as well. Try one card, declined, try another. So many people on food stamps when I visit the grocery store. One guy on CNBS World gave 2 more years of games and bailouts until it blows.
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When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Wineaux
Posts: 533
Incept: 2009-03-23
pure Liquid pleasure
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Quote: I would not be surprised at all to learn that a number of people, realizing that they were going to go broke, used their last access to credit as a way to build up a nest-egg to carry them thru the BK process Your statement Flap seems to be the approach American’s would take. Plus I think you have it somewhat backwards. The Greeks who are already broke (no cash) are the ones that would use the credit card as a last resort in order to survive. I can’t speak specifically for the Greeks but in other parts of Europe you don’t have the opportunity to gouge yourself in credit. Credit limits are much more restrictive and the amount of credit one is granted wouldn’t be enough to build any sort of “nest egg”. If the Greeks are using their credits cards with no intention of paying then they’ve figured out: 1) a ground game to stick it to the banksters once and for all 2) the social safety net of government is not going to be there I can’t imagine what must be going through the head of a family who needs to feed his/her children.
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What wine goes with unemployment?
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Hstella
Posts: 284
Incept: 2009-08-18
Colorado
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Maybe 2 more years before we blow. Greece is already passing the event horizon.
Reason: spell checker
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Stonedog
Posts: 2080
Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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I think you guys are optimists. I've been saying for almost a year now that it would blow between February 2012 and February 2013 and I see no reason to change my thesis just bc we are 4 months into it. Just look at what is going on with Spanish and Italian bond yields. When (not if) they go Greece, it will blow up the EMU and almost certainly the European Union. Add to that everything that's been going on in China, Japan and the UK and we have the makings of a meltdown that will make the Great Depression look like a Summer Breeze. One that will massively impact our own economy (which isn't that strong no matter what the politcos and pundits would have us believe.
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"I would characterize my professional disdain as more of a professional contempt for their [Central Banker, Banker and politician] economic and financial policies, priorities, presumptions and prescriptions." - Lauren Lyster on Capital Account for Friday June 16, 2012
"All the stimulus, the bailouts, the quantit
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Xqqme
Posts: 627
Incept: 2009-01-09
Ohio
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"people are simply charging everything on their credit cards and have no intention of paying any of it -- ever."
After the 2004 reelection of GWB, a viral email suggested just that as payback. I've often wondered how many it would take to participate is such a 'protest' to cause such a crisis. Just look at the run up in private debt during that period.
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Analog
Posts: 543
Incept: 2010-12-29
arkansas ozarks
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So --
Cash in a IRA will be inflated away
Stocks in a IRA will be deflated away
The IRA might well get confiscated anyway,
What SHOULD a fellow have saved for the rainy day?
A reminder as to Karl's preparation points would seem timely.
old jim
"Things gonna slide
in all directions" ... Leonard Cohen
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Anti
Posts: 4301
Incept: 2007-10-09
Online
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I saw Nevertoolate's comment about Santelli and went to cnbc.com to look for a video - haven't found it yet because I was waylaid by a storyline there now: "Wilber Ross - Greece should sell state assets now". It made me want to throw up a little. Then it made me hope he gets strung up a little. Rich dude thinks a family should sell Grandma's wedding ring to him cheap to pay for a couple of meals at his junk food outlet.
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Health is better than health insurance
http://gerson.org/
Over the past 60 years, thousands of people have used the Gerson Therapy to recover from so-called “incurable” diseases such as cancer, diabetes, heart disease and arthritis.
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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I'm in favor of spending tax dollars after they are received in essence. The government in fiscal 2012 should spend no more than collected in 2011 for instance. You might have some years that you run a deficit as the economy inevitably would have a correction but pretty soon you could grow government services along a growing economy and tax base. But it would all have to start with a 43% decrease in fed government spending. And you'd never be able to grow the size of government without growing the economy or making the choice to do so. There would be no hidden taxes of QE or deficit spending which is a tax passed along to succeeding generations.
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Fitz22
Posts: 190
Incept: 2008-12-05
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"UNDER MY ADMINISTRATION DEFICIT SPENDING SHALL BE PROHIBITED."
By 1/1/2013.
OR ELSE the local court can give 3/4 of my net worth to XYZ by 2/1/2013 and I go to jail for 2 years.
Talk is cheap.
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Trades50
Posts: 4218
Incept: 2007-10-30
Land of Tax and Spend
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When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Aztrader
Posts: 6650
Incept: 2007-09-10
Scottsdale, AZ
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Bankruptcy attorneys teach deadbeats that they should run up their cards and then stop usuing them for 90 days so that the judge will allow the write offs. I have met several people that have done this and gotten away with the free money or free stuff that they bought with the cards.
I wager that the banks will try to get their bitches in Congress to pass a law that disallows credit card debt from being dislodged in bankruptcy. Nothing suprises me anymore.
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Reluctantdebtor
Posts: 131
Incept: 2010-03-05
ohio
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Re:
"Wait until the people over here in the US start pulling the same stuff on their credit cards!"
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You're at least three years late on that one. Profound boots-on-the-ground experience talking here. Not just me, but all around me, including some ostensibly "wealthy" acquaintances. Hint: If crashing in flames becomes inevitable, buying thousands of dollars of grocery store/gas station/hardware store gift certificate cards with VISAs and MASTERCARDs before the credit gets pulled is a smart thing to do. My credit lines were demolished & closed years ago but I'm still eatin'.
I haven't seen much reporting that reveals the disastrous truth of current "lower middle class" living in the US. When the credit card losses alone are revealed, some people will be SHOCKED. There ain't enough money in existence to "bail out" the real losses that have yet to be admitted. There are at least ten internet message boards on which (often-reluctant) deadbeats swap tips on wringing the most out of imminently-doomed credit lines and dodging avoidable consequences later.
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Highrev
Posts: 5025
Incept: 2009-02-21
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Oh boy, that credit card thingy is a good one.
Too bad everyone's limit was cut back by 90% a few years back.
BTW, didn't that happen in the States too?
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Northerner
Posts: 25
Incept: 2011-10-18
Southern Colorado
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Been trying for the last many months to wrap my brain around the many postings and comments regarding the coming fiscal Armageddon. I am in complete agreement with the dire necessity that our gov'ts from the Fed on down to local must operate within the dollars they receive in taxes. However, doing much "imaginating" on the prospects and effects, say that whoever our Prez happens to be and enough members in both houses of Congress get a proper set of gonads (sadly unlikely) to actually start the process of "meat cleavering" the bloated tentacles of the bureaucracy, that would by necessity raise our already too high unemployment levels to, what...40%? I'm guessing. With 45% of our Fed disappearing, what becomes of all that square footage of empty buildings "we" bought and all the tons of equipment and supplies? Plus, all those lost jobs mean millions of lost tax dollars that won't be collected so the Fed tax pool shrinks even more so the "government" that we can actually pay for is smaller still. And not to forget the Unemployment Benefits for that 40% who will be out of work. Trying to figure out how this would all shake out and work out even if it's initiated voluntarily. What time frame and what process would be needed that would allow it to be accomplished without being a catastrophe anyway? Just trying to find a coherent answer when I suggest it to my liberal "friends of Obama/Democrat/Union" comrades...causes dribbles of smoking gray matter to ooze out my ears...
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Local_yokel
Posts: 121
Incept: 2008-12-18
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@North: my take from Karl's posts is that you if you have a job a few years from now, be prepared to live on about half of what you make now. If they print, the number will be the same on your paycheck, but your costs will double. Same result, but easier to pass off on the consumer. The problem is that probably 80% of the population will be unprepared to do this and will default selectively until they can maintain a roof and meals.
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