Germany won't quit the euro unless all the europhiles in power right now get kicked out... and that's about 90% of them.

Genesis : eleventy brazillion please?

So what are the Germans thinking?

Quote:

France's newly elected Socialist government has just decided to lower the retirement age to 60. From now on, no Frenchman will be forced to work any longer just because it might help kick-start the country's flagging economy. And there's no way the French are going to work as long as their poor fellow Europeans in Germany, whose government is obliging them to labor and toil until age 67.

At least they understand enough to know that economic problems can't be solved by merely kicking them down the road. But, luckily enough, those in the Elysée Palace can also still rely on the willingness of the Germans to work hard. ....

http://www.spiegel.de/international/euro....

WELL worth the read to get the German perpspective.

From Pj's link:

Quote:

French foreign policy has always been plagued by an obsessive fear of German hegemony over Europe -- and the euro was supposed to be the way to prevent it. It's well-known that French President François Mitterrand made his approval of German reunification contingent on German Chancellor Helmut Kohl's acceptance of the common currency.

Seen in this light, the process of communalizing the debt of the EU's members states brings to full circle a project that the French have always viewed as something directed more against Germany than at uniting the Continent. Nicolas Sarkozy, Hollande's predecessor, believed that the best way to pursue this traditional goal was by using the novel approach of fostering a sense of solidarity with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. But Hollande is returning to the tried-and-true method of weakening the Germans by undermining their economic strength.

The next stage in the crisis will be blatant blackmail...

Genesis -

Thanks, I think I get it. They CAN subordinate the bondholders any time they want to, but if they do, they might not like the consequences, and thus they have to tread very carefully to try to keep the bondholders placated (stupidified might be a more appropriate word, no?) enough that they continue to buy in the future - is that about right?

The Germans really think they are mighty and life is all about working 24/7/365 till you die uh?

If they want to think like that, fine, but they can't impose their view of the world (WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK ALWAYS WORK). If they don't like it, they can get the hell out of the euro... which they should do really.

The German mindness/culture doesn't really fit at all in western Europe where people are more relaxed and don't take things seriously...

Germany should move to Asia...they would fit right in.

The Germans and Asians have it right.

Yes, it was the deceitful French. They tricked us into the Euro only to keep us down! And the seductive Spanish. They flashed their women's dark eyes and we forgot ourselves when we loaned them money! And now we suffer the blackest of blackmail, indeed. Einkreisung! ("Encirclement!") Deutschland ganzlich einzukreisen! ("Germany completely surrounded!") Feinde ringsum! ("Enemies all around us!") Well then by Nietzsche, maybe it's about time to hang up the lederhosen dust off the Schlieffen Plan. Eh?

"Resist, we are the 4th power of the EZ. Spain is  not Uganda."

What these imbeciles need is a Kenyan Queen to convince them how sweet bankster cock is.

No more Serrano, no more Manchego. Es mejor que se acostumbren al sabor de guevo de banquero. Ole!


Four more years!

Of course the big gap up tonight. CNBS will be pumping all they can tomorrow morning.

Quote:

Credito - NIENTE PRELIEVI - VERSAMENTI PER I CORRENTISTI DI BNI
giovedì 7 giugno 2012

Correntisti di BNI impossibilitati ad effettuare prelievi/versamenti, pagamenti di bollette, rate mutui, tasse

Pietro Giordano, Adiconsum: “Grave l’atteggiamento di Banca d’Italia che assume provvedimenti senza valutare le ricadute sui correntisti, ed in special modo, sulle famiglie monoreddito e sui pensionati”

Adiconsum chiede a Bankitalia un incontro urgente e la revoca del provvedimento

La Banca d’Italia ha autorizzato la sospensione dei pagamenti della Banca Network Investimenti S.p.A. (BNI) senza comunicare alcunché ai correntisti.

Molto grave e inaccettabile – dichiara Pietro Giordano, Segretario Generale Adiconsum – l’atteggiamento di Banca d’Italia nella vicenda BNI S.p.A., perché altamente lesivo degli interessi della clientela.

Bankitalia, infatti, dopo aver prorogato il commissariamento dell’istituto di credito, dando quindi l’impressione di un imminente salvataggio, ha poi dato il via libera alla liquidazione coatta, senza fornire alcuna preventiva comunicazione ai correntisti, lasciandoli in condizione di non poter effettuare alcun tipo di operazione, neanche quelle di base per la sopravvivenza quotidiana, quali prelievi/ versamenti, pagamenti di utenze, rate, tasse.

Dobbiamo purtroppo segnalare che provvedimenti lesivi come quelli adottati nei confronti della clientela BNI – denuncia Giordano – non rappresentano un caso isolato. Decisioni prese senza tener conto delle pesanti ricadute, in particolare sui risparmiatori in possesso di un unico conto corrente su cui accreditano stipendio o pensione, non sono nuove a Bankitalia, ed hanno interessato anche i correntisti di Banca MB.

L’atteggiamento di Banca d’Italia – prosegue Giordano – è burocratico e notarile e come Adiconsum abbiamo chiesto in una lettera inviata a Banca d’Italia e a BNI la revoca del provvedimento e un incontro urgente per definire le modalità con cui i clienti, specie famiglie a reddito fisso e pensionati, possano svolgere le normali operazioni quotidiane.

http://tickerforum.org/akcs-www?post=207....

Nothing to see here, people. Move along please...

First class post.

1st: Pablo Rodríguez is a *writer*, NOT an editor (probably freelance).

2nd: The El Mundo link is a generic link, to the newspaper's home page, which, incidentially, has NOTHING of the sort headlined (and I can't find anything buried either).

3rd: Those figures and statements are straight out-of-their-ass Facebook/Twitter BS (or front page News of the World ) that don't even make it to rumor status and belong in the bar or bilged (that is if they were originally posted on Ticker Forum anyway).

The truth is probably more like that is what Tim Geithner said to Mariano Rajoy.

Should I go on?

Coming to conclusions based on second hand, third party "tweets" is what our internet "journalism" has come to.


Add: I suggest, as I did yesterday in a related thread, brushing up on the art of negotiation as a jumping off point if anyone is really interesting in knowing and understanding what happened/is happening in Europe. (Didn't any of you see any of the news items regarding high level contacts from two weeks ago that really got this going? Don't any of you understand the win-win outcome of Saturday's agreement?)

Highrev wrote: 2nd: The El Mundo link is a generic link, to the newspaper's home page, which, incidentially, has NOTHING of the sort headlined (and I can't find anything buried either).

I don't know if I've understood which headline you're referring to but presuming it's 'Aguanta, somos la cuarta potencia de Europa, España no es Uganda', then it's there on El Mundo's (online) front page (halfway down the first column on the left hand side) and also here http://elmundo.orbyt.es/2012/06/11/elmun....

El Mundo requires a subscription to view the detail but an image of the paper's front paper story also it appears on the business insider link (and below)

Highrev added: '3rd: Those figures and statemens are straight out-of-their-ass BS that don't even make it to rumor status and belong in the bar or bilged (that is if they were originally posted on Ticker Forum anyway).'

Yes, the figures in the Ticker are incorrect but they're lifted from the businessinsider link which, when compared to the El Mundo front page image , shows that businessinsider have missed a typo and it should read '500,000 million Euros and another 700,000 for Italy' rather than '500,000 billion'.

Peterm, the big thing is the bonds are suddenly insolvent and when due, I doubt the banks would be able to refund. Also, the equity goes right out of the banks. The money is supposed to be a loan to the banks. This is all about hoping compound interest works (hard to work at zero) and bankrupts all win the lottery.

The thing about blackmail is that once you realise that it is blackmail, you cant give in to it no matter what the consequences, because blackmailers will take everything you have got.

Too late they realised that Greece was perpetrating the greatest international heist in the history of the world. It's ability to blackmail other nations into getting more free money has pretty much ended now that it is obvious that they were just taking the money.

In the case of Spain, they have run a relatively tight ship in terms of their government borrowing. The banks are a different matter altogether, they have loaned money to those who cannot repay, and sent huge amounts of money to their favourite football teams. No way do these banks deserve a bailout, they are just beyond saving. And if the international community gives into blackmail by the Spanish banks, they can expect to lose every penny they give and expect demands for even more money.

Just one question. Who is on the hook for these loans should the banks fail to repay? Is it the Spanish Sovereign?

Quote:

Too late they realised that Greece was perpetrating the greatest international heist in the history of the world.

The banks loaned Greece the money knowing all along it was impossible for them to repay it, then they shorted Greece. Who's runnin' the heist?

Thanks Radar, the internet standard is to post a direct link. Thank you for taking the time to find it.

As for the front page printed edition, I'll refer you back to my above tongue-in-cheek comparison to the News of the World. (There's a circulation war going on in Spain . . . )

Continuing in the same, responsible journalism, vein:

Imagine you have a business that forms part of a regional association where sales areas and product allotments are constantly being redefined to the detriment of your business and you are thinking about leaving the association (which is voluntary, by the way) since it seems to be doing you more harm than good, but since your business is such an important part of the association and your leaving would threaten the viability of the continuance of the association, would that be considered "blackmail"? Or are those just the basic "facts of life" concerning the matter? And add to that scenario the only real positive in your favor that supposedly still exists - a co-share financial pact as it were - and that the association is reneging on that too (and wants to actually carry out a hostile takeover), what would you say about simply putting an "exit possibility" on the negotiating table? Blackmail? Or facts of life?

In a nutshell (it's impossible to go into detail in this format to explain the multiple reasons why) that's what has happened in Spain. Cutbacks in wine production. Cutbacks in milk production. Cutbacks in olive oil production. Cutbacks in ship building. Cutbacks in commercial fishing. (Are you getting the picture? All the world class Spanish products?) In exchange for? Highways? Tourist attractions? Retirement community infrastructure? For whom? The northern Europeans? How about a cutback in EU voting rights? Yes, that's right, that too! And now, someone suggests that we just let them come in hostile takeover fashion on the basis of short term funding necessities?

There's a phrase in Spanish that sums things up: "hasta aquí hemos llegado" (which basically means, "enough is enough").

In a nutshell, Spain basically put the cards *face up* on the table: we can find (and are willing to do so if necessary) financing outside of Europe and go it alone, we know just how negative that would be for the Euro and the Euro zone, but if Europe is not willing to live up to its responsibilities and its side of the bargain, we will have no choice as we certainly are not going to sign over our "business" due to a short term liquidity issue (and until you do a serious analysis of the Spanish government's assets - highways, airports, real estate, lottery, and more and more - and the private sector balance sheet as well - over 80% of Spaniards own their own home and 60% of those Spanish homeowners own their home outright, that's right, NO mortgage - you'll have no clue - hell, the whole short fall could be solved with a one year, one time 5% income tax increase . . . who are we kidding?).

Let's assume the statement about the [corrected] numbers in the above post is correct even if the context isn't. Aren't those numbers general knowledge? Aren't they the basic facts of life regarding the situation. (And remember that the correct context is that of Euro "breakup" numbers for those who are truly locked out of other international financing should a breakup occur.) Is putting the hard facts on the table blackmail? Or just very good, realistic negotiating?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/blackma....

Read the definition carefully.

And as normally is the case with any negotiation, it's usually the strongest party who comes away with the better end of the deal.

I guess Spain's a lot stronger than many previously thought.

_________________________________________________________________________

Here's a post of mine on another site from June 4 (one of many, but if I were to just post one, perhaps this might be the most enlightening - for the intellectually challenged, focus on the last sentence is you get nothing else):

If anyone is wondering why the IBEX was up almost 3% today, and why it was down the least on Friday, other than the technically severely oversold conditions, the fundamentals as seen in single digit PE ratios and high yields make for attractive long term investment opportunities (as well as perhaps being yet another signal of an important low).

PE ratios and yields on the big guns on the IBEX-35. (source www.eleconomista.es)

Gas Natural (utility) 6.58, 10.08%
Endesa (utility) 6.58, 5.32%
Iberdrola (utility) 6.73, 10.55%
Telefonica (telcom) 6.83, 14.44%
Santander (bank) 6.96, 13.89%
Repsol (oil) 7.19, 8.06%
BBVA (bank) 7.76, 9.02%

And, according to Market Watch's Big Charts, the numbers are even more enticing on these.
STD
REP
BBVA
The PE ratio for the entire IBEX-35 "basket" is 8.64 and the yield is 8.57%. (source www.invertia.com)

Add: These guys do the same business in Euros or Pesetas. ;-)

Crzymorse wrote..

Nice article Richard, the southern colonies assumed shared responsibility for debt incurred by the northern colonies to form the United States. The southern colonies got the capital in return and a common defense against the British. We resumed trade with the Brits and ****ed over the french who were promised preferential trade for their help in the revolutionary war. Our founding fathers were pretty savvy, much smarter than the current inbred EU leadership.

I've pointed out the same historical comparison(except for the last sentence).

The European doomsday folks would be well served by reviewing American Colonial history.

Necessity is the mother of invention. Don't sell the Europeans short. I'm confident they'll be up to the occasion as well.

Spanish rates really blowing out

10y Spain 6.297% opened 6.017%

5y Spain opened 5.235% now 5.548%

Highrev: I'm no fan of the News of The World (or any Murdoch enterprise for that matter) and I take your observation that during circulation wars, the N.O.W/National Enquirer type of 'shock hack' headlines become almost obligatory. However, I don't think it applies here.

The inflated figures that you originally concluded were News Of The World-like, and which you then, later, sought to explain as possibly being due to a newspaper circulation war in Spain is quite plausible - right up until it becomes obvious that El Mundo never, ever reported those inflated numbers anywhere or at any time.

The incorrect numbers were entirely the result of shoddy re-reporting by businessinsider - which to the best of my knowledge is not involved in a circulation war in Spain. .

So, could they (businessinsider) be responsible of deliberate, N.O.W. type sensationalism anyway?

Possibly, but I doubt it when they have a screen print of the actual El Mundo article 'immediately' beneath their glaring error, in all its glory, for everyone to see.

Sometimes, just sometimes, good ol' poor editing quality and a woeful lack of attention to detail is nearer the mark than deliberate 'out-of-their-ass Facebook/Twitter/N.O.W. BS'.

But then, at times, we're all guilty of rushing to judgement in support of our chosen bias aren't we?

We're then in danger of berating others for printing poorly researched 'facts' even as we claim to have found "NOTHING of the sort headlined" - not even in buried places - despite the fact it was in clear view on the front page and 'accurately' reproduced countless times elsewhere.

The fight for accuracy, and against willful, unsubstantiated, rumour-mongering, is a noble one, and I applaud you for waging it - but how can we demand/expect such honest reporting by others if we can't be arsed to ensure that we're not as guilty of doing it too?

Not to hijack this thread--but something IS up:


China to make due contributions to boosting IMF resources: official
English.news.cn 2012-06-11 17:45:55

BEIJING, June 11 (Xinhua) -- China will fulfill its obligations in boosting International Monetary Fund (IMF) resources in accordance with the consensus of the international community, Chinese officials said here Monday.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/....

Highrev wrote..

Necessity is the mother of invention. Don't sell the Europeans short. I'm confident they'll be up to the occasion as well.

Sold to you.

http://www.sonoma.edu/users/e/eyler/426/....

Don't you morons get it? The krauts are*****ed they can't have their King of the F1 world back at the top. This all ends the day Schumacher is allowed back into a car that can win F1 races.

Until then, this is all theatre.

PS. Montreal was ****tons more interesting to me this year than many past years.

China is so retarded to give any money to the IMF... anyone giving money to the IMF is a tool.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/cyprus-nex....

Quote:

*SHIARLY: CYPRUS HASN'T RULED OUT EU BAILOUT OR THIRD PARTY LOAN

Bullish.

This subject was dealt with last night on a newsmaker roundtable Spanish public television program. It was the bunt of the joke for the four guests (representing various opinions from liberal to conservative) and the moderator.

It basically went like this:

Quote:

“Does anyone really think that Mariano Rajoy was sending text messages during the Euro Group video conference?” [chuckles] “In the same room?” [more chuckles] “Or that he was somewhere else?” [laughter] “Or that the revelation and inspiration came to Luis de Guindos in the moment he received that message?” [more laughter] "That they were completely unprepared and had no idea until that message came in?" [more laughter] “Such that he stood up, inspired, and told the rest of the group to prepare 500 and 700 billion?!?! [hysterical laughter] “Or that Mariano Rajoy was not even around or aware of the conditions being negotiated?” [laughter] “Does anyone think that Rajoy was somewhere else and brought up to speed after they ended the conference?” [tired laughter – wiping eyes]

I thought that was just about the most serious treatment of the matter that I have seen to date.