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| When Students Fail, Just Claim They Passed in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Asimov
Posts: 104700
Incept: 2007-08-26
East Tennessee Eastern Time
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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity. If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
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J0nx
Posts: 3083
Incept: 2008-08-12
The trashcan of the nation
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Liberals, multi-culturalism, political correctness and affirmative action. Until those things are done away with then our deepening social, educational and cultural slide will only continue. I've been saying it since the late 90's and am seeing those chickens come home to roost now in spades.
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The fraud and lies are only allowed to continue because the people allow it. Either through apathy or ignorance, they still allow it.
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Asimov
Posts: 104700
Incept: 2007-08-26
East Tennessee Eastern Time
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J0nx: You left out one of the most important things that need to go away for public education to succeed: No child left behind.
I'm sorry, but some children NEED to be left behind.
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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity. If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
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Debtpie
Posts: 534
Incept: 2009-12-17
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Three words...Higher, Teacher, Pay.
Problem solved.
Sarcasm out.
End.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
I just shared this story with my wife...she chuckled and gave another solution...give the test in Spanish!
She works for a large bank in the mortgage department...she's continually amazed at the number of loan documents coming from FL that are written in Spanish...the banks response to these foreign language documents...higher employees that speak/read/write Spanish!
Does anyone know if it's even legal for banks to be filing loan documents in a language other than English?
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A Leader, or an Opportunist? "A leader has the capacity of vision, the ability to see where things are headed before people in general see those things." Mitt Romney --- DebtPie's definition: a leader decides where "things" should head and "leads" us there.
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Uppity_peasant
Posts: 3231
Incept: 2009-06-26
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Genesis wrote..Government schools have failed. We have thrown more and more money at the problem and have not found results. Actually, government skools have been a SMASHING success for stealing the former private property of the serfs, via the property tax. And the insatiable maw of the teechurs yoonions continues to demand more and more and more of your tax dollars.
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==== If it's true that "assault weapons" are "weapons of war" and don't belong on the streets of America, why do the police need them? Who are the police at war with?
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Debtpie
Posts: 534
Incept: 2009-12-17
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"stealing the former private property of the serfs, via the property tax."
Bought my house in 1996...30 year fixed at 7%...after 2 refinances my rate today is 4%.
16 years and 192 payments later...my mortgage payment is higher today than is was in 1996!
All due to property tax increases!
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A Leader, or an Opportunist? "A leader has the capacity of vision, the ability to see where things are headed before people in general see those things." Mitt Romney --- DebtPie's definition: a leader decides where "things" should head and "leads" us there.
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Hapablap21
Posts: 786
Incept: 2007-08-21
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My wife and I came to the conclusion some time ago that if you want your kids educated, you're going to have to do it yourself. Even private schools pretty much suck. Education is following the path of everything else, settling into the haves and the have-nots where the rich have the opportunity for actual education and everyone else gets government schools or some paid equivalent.
It's kinda nice to know that my kids will be competing with a bunch of schooled zombies. I just hope our society makes it that long.
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Mortgageguymn
Posts: 1585
Incept: 2009-03-09
North Coast
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My employer hired someone for their "lock desk". When she was being trained, she was told to enter "one hundred thousand" into the computer. She had no earthly idea how to represent that figure numerically. I have no idea how she got the job, nor how it lasted a full two weeks.
I wish Karl could find his old MCS minimal-math-standards-for-employment tests. To those I would add some minimal English competency tests. They would have to be multiple-choice of course. Simple stuff. Pick the past participle. Pick the correct verb to conjugate the sentence correctly, etc.
Companies will have to use such tests, for the same reason that lenders (and landlords) went to requiring minimum credit scores - as a defense against discrimination claims. You establish a bare minimum score and do not deviate from it (and your preset procedures) AT ALL. If someone scores below the minimum, they have zero chance of employment. "Bad at tests" or "had a bad day"? Too ****ing bad.
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Genesis
Posts: 131489
Incept: 2007-06-26
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I had both Mortg and we kept them ALL for exactly this reason -- lawsuit defense. It was ugly, and this was in the 1990s.
Uncompetitive workforce? Yep. These people weren't qualify to wash cars.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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2dogs
Posts: 2960
Incept: 2009-03-25
Land of the Lost
Online
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Manipulating the states' education standards and tests to make it look like public school students are succeeding when they are NOT has been going on for years and years. More info in my post, here, including a link to a chart that shows that even back in 2005, less than half of public school students in every state listed had math and reading skills at even a bare minimum basic grade-level proficiency level: http://tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-w....
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You can't defeat the combined effects of massive voter fraud, the Free **** Army, and the entire bought and paid for media complex. This nation is done.
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Mrbill
Posts: 7905
Incept: 2008-10-19
North Carolina
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My SO said in response "but I had good teachers in elementary school". I asked if they were 50 years old, and yes, they were, like mine.
Our elementary school teachers, having been in school 50 years ago, were probably more prepared to teach by eighth grade than today's "teachers" after college.
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Drb
Posts: 195
Incept: 2011-01-02
TX
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Same things happen at universities, both private and public. In many private universities, "we can not fail people who pay 50K per year" so almost everyone gets an A or B. In public universities if you do not fail students, your life is simpler - they do not whine (they are used to being the last winner in high school), you get high evaluations, and administration does not breathe down your neck. Here in TX the brain-dead legislature are making it even more difficult to flunk students. This all is while quality of incoming students drops and the 1st year at university is spent teaching them (often unsuccessfully) things they should have learned at high school. Interesting website: http://www.gradeinflation.com/
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Goforbroke
Posts: 5407
Incept: 2007-11-30
Just call me 'Comrade'
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Six years ago, I taught a class on special education to last-semester undergraduate teachers-to-be. I was using the standard curriculum given to me by the college.
Three of them went to the Dean (without my knowledge) and complained it was too much work.
One of them just got up and walked out in the middle class one day because she had another "commitment."
They complained when they got "B"s and "C"s ... everything was graded using a very detailed, objective rubric. They wanted "A"s without having to either do the work or master it.
And these were folks who were going to be teachers not 3 months after completing this class.
'Nuff said.
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We have met the enemy and it is us. -- Pogo
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Dudefish
Posts: 46
Incept: 2010-02-20
Birmingham, Ala.
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As someone who has been involved in educational testing and assessment in a professional capacity, I strongly suspect that something is going on here that we're not being told about. Specifically I suspect something along the lines of cheating in previous years that has somehow been preempted this year, allowing the true underachievement to come to light. Assessment scores generally do not swing this wildly in one year without some other extraneous factor in play. See, e.g.,: http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/test-coo....
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Mrbill
Posts: 7905
Incept: 2008-10-19
North Carolina
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They made the test harder. That seems like enough reason to see another 50% of kids fail.
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Jackl
Posts: 2253
Incept: 2008-01-17
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The annual exponentially increasing money went infrastructure and pension blackholes. Not results.
Lo & Behold, when money isn't tied to results you get failure. Imagine that.
I'm not talking about graduation rates or test scores either. Job placement and advance degree application is what teachers should be paid on.
Edit: I have a theory on why the scores are so bad this year. I'm not sure about the Florida system, but in Oregon the test are extremely lax, and they even allow retakes if you fail. So most kids halfass many attempts until they get over 60% by sheer luck or apathy of the graders.
Cutout retakes, raise the minimum passing standard and see how bad our system REALLY is.
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Weezie
Posts: 6151
Incept: 2008-05-19
Caution: Congress at Work
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My daughter, who I have homeschooled for the past two years, is borderline MR with a moderate to severe expressive and receptive language disability. She 'helped' a typically developing neighbor (in 8th grade), who wrote the sentence: "After that, him runned to the car". She corrected it to: "After that, he ran to the car."
Told the Mom that she ought to be*****ed at the school.
A big part of the problem is that they require little writing, and what is required is rarely corrected. Worse yet, the kids don't have to rewrite the corrections.
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jihad pressure cooker tea party guns Constitution Bill of Rights play doh squiggly line prepper home garden cluster****
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Weetabix
Posts: 8
Incept: 2010-07-28
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I formerly didn't mind paying for schools via property taxes, even though we homeschool. I thought that it would "raise the tide" to have more people around who were educated.
Now I think all the money going to the schools might just as well go down a rathole, and I don't like paying for them.
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Drb
Posts: 195
Incept: 2011-01-02
TX
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Jackl -
unfortunately the test scores is how they assess high-school teachers and there IS money in it, at least in TX. Results are miserable. They teach students how to pass tests, often with cheating, and not how to study and think. The problem is that not enough students get flunked - the lower the failure rate, the better teacher is paid. I do not know how to assess the teachers' work, but things like "advanced degree applications" will be just as unproductive as everything else. Already too many people who should not be at universities are there and will not have any other future prospects than repayment of student loan debt.
A large part of problem may come form the attitude "I as a taxpayer pay teachers salary so he/she should put up with my lazy, stupid child and give him A's". Basically culture of entitlement in society.
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Boughtthefarm
Posts: 385
Incept: 2009-12-06
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Nearly half of my 4th graders class is on the honor roll. Does it seem likely that half achieve to a high standard or is it that the bar is set low?
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Asimov
Posts: 104700
Incept: 2007-08-26
East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Don't worry. In another 10 years they'll ALL be on the honor roll.
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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity. If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
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Abn0rmal
Posts: 9261
Incept: 2009-01-10
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Schools are just doing the job they were expressly designed to do - inhibit education. They're doing a better job of it every year.
Keep feeding children into the wood chipper if you want but don't be surprised if they come out broken.
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Intelsys
Posts: 168
Incept: 2007-11-29
New Braunfels, Tx
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I am continually amazed at how far down the tubes the public schools have gone. Here's a little personal history to illustrate how long this decline has been in force.
I hated high school. In 1970, I dropped out of my senior year and obtained my GED. In 1983, I decided I would like to go to college. By this time, the colleges were implementing entrance tests for English and College Algebra to determine if remedial training was needed. I took the algebra test with along with approximately thirty recent high school graduates. I and one other young man tested out. There were similar results with the English test; I and two other young people tested out. Neither of these subjects were something I liked in high school or did particularly well at, yet I retained enough of what I was taught that I did not need remedial training.
If it was like this twenty-nine years ago, imagine how much worse it is today.
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Lowbeyond
Posts: 17127
Incept: 2008-02-11
CO aka West NJ/East CA
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Maybe it was a birdy bread-bomber from the future?!
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