Hirooonoda wrote..

But that isn't what the libertarians said in 2009 when they advocated decriminalization of drugs in Mexico.

They said, and I'm quoting,"Decriminalize the drugs and the violence will go down."

That was the Libertarian propaganda in 2009-and it was wrong.

What is busting you guys silly is that your Utopian logic has been destroyed by the real-life world of insurrectional violence and Real Politik.

Just admit it, you're theory was blown out of the water like the liberals University ideas are destroyed on a daily basis.

It's called being intellectually honest.

What's intellectually honest is not trying to apply someone else's claims to a person who never made them.

The only contemporary 2009 comment I made on the subject was this:

Tickerguy wrote..

If Hillary really wants to de-nut the Mexican Drug Gangs (and the drug gangs in this country) the most effective way to do so is to destroy their ability to make a profit, and there is only one way to accomplish that.

Now here's your problem -- if you like having the ability to post here, you can't make false claims about the people who post here, especially me.

So you can either (1) retract and apologize, or (2) leave.

Which will it be?

What stopped Prohibition was the Valentines Day Massacre.

Until the equivalent event hits the US, legalization is impossible.

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What is busting you guys silly is that your Utopian logic has been destroyed by the real-life world of insurrectional violence and Real Politik.

Your logic astounds me sir and is clearly unassailable Hiroonda. Seriously, you're going to deny a point that the Portugal example proves is possible simply because someone apparently said it would happen in Mexico but it hasnt perfectly exactly as they predicted? In a country that is well known for insurrectional violence in its 200 or so year history since independence from Spain that you acknowledge above.

Hell, we're about 4 years away from the 100th anniversary of Pershing going after Villa (who we backed till Carranza). This time we're supporting the Sinaloa cartel or whoever, fast n' furiously.

Anyway, lets not forget that the 1929 Valentines Day massacre helped lead to the National Firearms Act in 1934... 5 years later. Prohibition had been repealed by then too but can't let the proles have cheap full auto tommy guns and silencers sent by mail via sears catalog. Ness n' co needed something to do after the problem had already been solved.

So when some squad of National Guard gets handed their ass by cartel shooters protecting their grow area we'll have the equal of the Valentines Day Massacre.

Guys;

here's the obvious problem.

Heroin, morphine, opium, kratom, methadone hash and yes, weed, are among the finest painkillers anywhere. There's one small problem with them though. Guess what it is? No big transnational pharma holds a patent on them. There's no wad of cash at the end of the rainbow when those drugs are used legally or illictitly.

Now guess who fills their pockets with money each time an Rx for patent controlled Oxycontin-Dilaudid-MsContin-Vicodin gets written? Hint: It's not granny.

IMO .gov and pharma have partnered to form an untouchable drug running cartel. Hypocrites. Just watch clips from socials where they're swilling glass after glass of booze. I wish impotence and liver failure on every one of them

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Now guess who fills their pockets with money each time an Rx for patent controlled Oxycontin-Dilaudid-MsContin-Vicodin gets written? Hint: It's not granny.

There's no patents on the ingredients in those medications either. They're all available in generic forms.

Bertdilbert wrote..

Drug lords invest in treasuries and the prison and legal system employs tons of unionized workers. Don't look for legalization anytime soon at the federal level. Besides we need the drug profits to fund the black opps.

Don't forget the banksters -- the kind of money that the drug trade represents CANNOT slosh around the system with out the pigmen one way or another getting their cut. Plus cohort after cohort of fuzz, prosecutors, lawyers, paralegals, and judges ALL OF WHOM have a vested interest in seeing the sham "drug war" continue.

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There's no patents on the ingredients in those medications either. They're all available in generic forms.

You couldn't be wronger. Perdue got exclusive rights (for 10 years IIRC) for oxycontin mfg/distribution and licensing due to their "benevolent" reformulation of oxycontin to OxyNEO and OxyOP to deter abuse.

From wiki:
"Purdue Pharma has since announced resolution of its infringement suits with Endo,[48] Teva,[49] IMPAX,[50] and Mallinckrodt.[51] Endo and Teva each agreed to cease selling generic forms of OxyContin.[48][49] IMPAX negotiated a temporary, and potentially renewable, license.[50] In 2008, Mallinckrodt Pharmaceuticals reintroduced generic OxyContin the strengths of 10 mg, 20 mg, 40 mg and 80 mg, which was made possible by a temporary royalties-bearing license with Purdue Pharma that expired in 2009.[51]"

Perdue basically put the screws to the generics and with Uncle Fraud behind them the generics were told to get stuffed. Much the same applies to the other drugs I mentioned.

I don't feel like arguing with you if you're going to repeat your airline fuel MO citing financial mags instead of Boeing et. al and using conjecture and more opinion than fact.

A lot of people believe that the drug violence will remain in Mexico.

I disagree, its here in US now, but only in small amounts (in comparison). It won't be long. It won't just be in the border states.

I'm all in for the legalization of weed. Not legalizing it should be criminal as far as I'm concerned. But full legalization of hard dope (coke, crank, heroin, etc..) is something I've struggled with and have a hard time wrapping my head around. Imagine if Americans could purchase china white heroin over-the-counter at the drug store. In this high pressure society with tons of depression and other stress related emotional illness and physical pain like backaches - how many would use for a little relief and then get hooked? Would being legal remove the risk and stigma of using hard dope and result in a major healthcare crisis with multi-millions of Americans becoming physically addicted to the ****? What would that do to whatever production still exists in the country? I don't know. I am only asking questions here. I look at a country like Singapore that has draconian laws against these drugs. According to reports drug related drug crimes are pretty rare there. Could that be replicated here? Probably not. We would have to build dozens of new prisons which would only benefit those who are enriched by the industrial prison complex. So that barn door is already open and the horses are gone. Too late to close it. At the same time the system as it currently stands in the "war on drugs" is a total moneymaking and power grabbing scam that has been proven to be a total failure. Personally, I don't know where the answer lies. I would be in favor of implementing legalization of hard dope on a very gradual basis and monitoring it vigorously then measuring the outcomes. I don't know what the ultimate answer is. Any which way we turn there are consequences.

Noodleman wrote..

I'm all in for the legalization of weed. Not legalizing it should be criminal as far as I'm concerned. But full legalization of hard dope (coke, crank, heroin, etc..) is something I've struggled with and have a hard time wrapping my head around. Imagine if Americans could purchase china white heroin over-the-counter at the drug store. In this high pressure society with tons of depression and other stress related emotional illness and physical pain like backaches - how many would use for a little relief and then get hooked?

Who cares. You can get hooked on anything. Even those that the State makes you get a piece of paper for.

You can also walk in and get a case of scotch any time you want and get hammered. Or buy a case of "whipped cream" and do whippits. Etc etc.

You can also go buy a car or motorcycle and go crash it into a tree at 100pmh anytime you want. The list goes on and on.

Noodleman wrote..

Would being legal remove the risk and stigma of using hard dope and result in a major healthcare crisis with multi-millions of Americans becoming physically addicted to the ****?

Who cares. Its their life. If they want to destroy it by smoking crack who gives a ****. If they attempt to steal/murder etc to support their habit, we have laws for that currently. Else just shoot them in the head if they try to jack your ****.

Some people are addicted to the home shopping network. Should we ban that too ?

Noodleman wrote..

At the same time the system as it currently stands in the "war on drugs" is a total moneymaking and power grabbing scam that has been proven to be a total failure.

So you recognize this, but still have trouble wrapping your head around legalization?

Noodleman wrote..

Personally, I don't know where the answer lies.

If you believe that people own their body, the question answers itself with no ambiguity. If you do not believe that premise, only then does it become muddled. At that point all you are arguing - the only thing - as appeals to society or the children or whatever is just a conceit, a justification for - the circumstances/conditions in which the State shall have the legal power to kill someone over a random substance that they ingest/possess/buy/sell/etc.

Noodleman wrote..

I would be in favor of implementing legalization of hard dope on a very gradual basis and monitoring it vigorously then measuring the outcomes. I don't know what the ultimate answer is. Any which way we turn there are consequences.

I'll repeat - again - the lowbeyond drug policy.

Every thing can be bought OTC. pot, crack, cocaine heroin, etc and all prescription drugs. If you personally wish to consult a doctor before you ingest any substance, well you have that choice - but no one will force you to.

Zero public funding for any drug treatment/addiction centers. They are all private. They can get funding via fees for staying or donations. If you wish to do some crack, get hooked, and cannot stop, well go pay for your treatment yourself.

Else EABODADIAF. You made the choice, so now you pay for the consequences.

Waste any fukker that tries to jack your ****.

The "problem" is self regulating and solves itself as the people who choose badly will die.

Choose wisely. Because if you do not you may be severely ****ed.

All just part of protecting the children, in $22k parts:

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/182412....

Its all about the eevil pot, not asset forfeiture without any evidence let alone an actual conviction. Economy is bad, gotta pay the bills for the enforcers doncha know.

.

I understand how people can struggle with legalization of "hard" drugs but keep in mind the theft crimes that said addictions can lead to are ALREADY ILLEGAL. the ideal we should aspire to is that those who make bad decisions only hurt themselves, if you rob a 7-11 to support a cocaine habit then you should be put away for 7-11 robbery as that's NOT a victimless crime. Let them hurt themselves all they want, I can attempt to cross the Atlantic with water wings and the cops won't stop me, what's the difference between that and doing methamphetamine? Oh yeah, money..

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I can attempt to cross the Atlantic with water wings and the cops won't stop me, what's the difference between that and doing methamphetamine? Oh yeah, money..

I like that analogy... Im gonna use that one day

Thanks !

Having gone through hell over my prescription pain meds, it became quite obvious to me that they are trying to solve a medical problem with a legal solution.

Drjerry wrote..

Having gone through hell over my prescription pain meds, it became quite obvious to me that they are trying to solve a medical social/mental problem with a legal solution.

FIFY

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You couldn't be wronger

The ingredient in OxyContin is oxycodone. It is not patented, and is available in many generic forms. The only patent relating to Purdue's product is in the delivery system, ie: the time release tablet. Doctors with a DEA license have always been able to prescribe the pure oxycodone products if, of course, medically indicated.

Dilaudid (ie: hydromorphone) isn't even associated with a controlled release system. And no patents on it either. So the claim that some big Rx conspiracy is making a gazillion dollars on Dilaudid (or Vicodin, or the other products) is completely wrong. At best, the DEA makes setting up a Dilaudid factory rather bureacratically time-consuming (paperwork!), but if the pills were providing their pushers with an excess profit margin, various firms would be stepping up to the plate to build new capacity.

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I don't feel like arguing with you if you're going to repeat your airline fuel MO citing financial mags instead of Boeing et. al and using conjecture and more opinion than fact.

And I don't feel like arguing with you, especially if you're going to take industry propoganda or "tin", and repeat it as though it is fact. I throughouly waxed you on the fuel efficiency issue. Have a good day!

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Would being legal remove the risk and stigma of using hard dope and result in a major healthcare crisis with multi-millions of Americans becoming physically addicted to the ****?

All the addiction would be worth the price if it means no one's granny gets shot in a botched drug raid ever again.

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Wvery thing can be bought OTC. pot, crack, cocaine heroin, etc and all prescription drugs.

While I agree with you, I draw the line at antibiotics. Those have impacts on ALL of use if used for every cold and sniffle and scratched finger. They're already over-prescribed as it is. Self-abuse is one thing. Contributing to the destruction of herd immunity is something completely different.

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Dilaudid (ie: hydromorphone) isn't even associated with a controlled release system

orly?

http://www.exalgo.com/

waxed, spit-shined and polished to a fine lustre. In over your head again.