| User Info
| Amazon: Let's Play Diversion in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Bw3
Posts: 6
Incept: 2011-12-04
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I have to differ with you on your opinion based on my personal experience. I live in Washington state and have been paying sales tax through Amazon for years. I compare prices, Amazon vs. local, the sales tax applies in both cases. In the past I made "limited" purchases from Amazon. For Xmas, we obtained Amazon eink readers and the Amazon Fire. With the Fire, a one month trial of "Prime" was included. While this includes streaming video (of which we have viewed several hours a month - not a deal maker) it also includes "free" two day shipping for "Prime" designated merchandise. We started using the "free" Prime shipping and the practice has evolved to $200-$300 per month of Amazon "Prime" purchases vs typically less than $40 of Amazon purchases pre Fire-Prime.
Now, I routinely search Amazon for shopping, most articles I do not need in less than 2 days. The Amazon shopping gives me a wider selection and typically lower or equal costs to local purchases. I will buy local if the price matches or is lower than avialble on Amazon Prime and I need it in the next two days, sales tax is the same in both cases.
While Prime membership now costs an annual $79 per year, I think that the time I save shopping at multiple local stores (to find out the item I want is not stocked/available) and the cost of gasoline is worth the cost. The item I want after researching on the interntet is delivered by the brown truck in 2 days (three over a weekend). The one or two movies I watch per month with Prime memberahip probably covers the $79 per year cost while I get "free" delivery to my door for merchandise at a lower or equal cost to local merchants (in a sales tax state).
Yes, I know this is destroying the local merchants. The above is my considered actions in diverting my purchases to Amazon "Prime". Future quarterly reports may reflect my considered actions.
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Magus
Posts: 1979
Incept: 2008-05-04
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No driving with amazon is big too--if you figure you drive 20 miles, that saves the average person $3 in gas plus wear and tear on their vehicle, plus time saved. I do see margins crunching a bit and amazon's stock price coming down, though.
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
-~~Ludwig V
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Greednfear
Posts: 176
Incept: 2008-10-12
Seattle
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It feels like they're trying to diversify their business from Web retailing to other businesses(digital contents, web services, etc.) For example, Amazon Web services are growing fast http://gigaom.com/cloud/how-big-is-amazo.... and looks promising. They will face competitions from Rackspace and a few other players for sure, but right now they have a pretty big lead over others and they seem to be only getting better. In another 5 years Amazon can be a very different company than what it is today, just as they went from a bookseller to where they are today.
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Genesis
Posts: 130796
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Yeah, the question is whether they can reasonably do so and maintain that sort of valuation premium.
I bet not.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Greednfear
Posts: 176
Incept: 2008-10-12
Seattle
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Yup.. no disagreement there. The other question in my mind is how fast they can do it, but one thing I have noticed about this company is that they seem very adaptable and they execute
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Genesis
Posts: 130796
Incept: 2007-06-26
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You can't argue with the execution - ~50 bips of operating expense (operating margin to actual margin) is damned impressive.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Phxkevin
Posts: 353
Incept: 2010-06-25
Phoenix Arizona
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I agree with BW3 - I started Prime in January. Its fantastic. Amazon will soon be collecting taxes on Arizona sales, but it will still be worth it to have items delivered to the door.
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Congress persons are all the same, republican or democrat, conservative or liberal. They talk a good game, but the results (or lack thereof) show something different.
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Aztrader
Posts: 6650
Incept: 2007-09-10
Scottsdale, AZ
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One point that you didn't make was how Amazon was going to maintain active retailers with their commission struction and forced competition between retailers. Amazon is a buyers dream for most common items. They list everything by UPC code and on the product listing, then they intentionally list the lowest retailer pricing on that item basically killing the smaller guys. Amazon charges retailers an average of 15% on most items including the shipping costs. This leaves very little for the retailer if he trys to compete pricewise. Amazon intentionally forces profit margins in the toliet which will eventually be their dimise.
We have a store on Amazon and they sure don't make it easy to make any real money unless you are a distributor or direct importer. If you are a retailer buying from a distributor, then forget making any money on Amazon. Too many stores selling the same items. Prime is what has been killing them. They charge the retailers a commission on the shipping in order for them to make up a piece of it. Prime is great for the shopper, but it does cost the retailers. Offering free shipping on heavy items can easily eat up that $79 fee with one shipment. Amazon can't raise commissions any more without destroying half their retailers. They need to find more options in order to raise their profit margins. We do our own fullfillment on our Amazon store to keep control of what goes in the box. They keep trying to get us to use their fullfillment,but then you have to hand over inventory every month to keep the flow going and this isn't possible for a lot of retailers that can't afford it. A lot of people like opening stores on Amazon because of the traffic, but their rules are so opaque and blind, that you can lose your store overnight if Amazon decides to close it without notice. This is bad business no matter what they think. Taxes will effect Amazon in a big way. I get maybe 2 orders every 6 months from AZ residents on my Arizona website, because they don't want to pay the 9.5% sales tax. This is a big issue because Amazon has already beaten the profit margins for retailers to the bottom end and they have no more to go. Add in the sales tax and you will see retailers running from Amazon. Their business model has a major problem and they refuse to make adjustments. Even EBAY has tiered commission rates. Another 20 points in AMZN and it will be an opportunity to short this pig again..........
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 2666
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
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I have started getting "Local Deals" e mails from Amazon recently. I think they are trying to do a Groupon kind of thing.
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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Vernonb
Posts: 398
Incept: 2009-06-03
State College, PA
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Pennsylvania imposed a % of income as a additional tax on anyone for 2011 if you couldn't provide proof of your internet purchases. I don't know a thing about this until I was doing my taxes. PA also expects one to pay taxes to them for purchases made in another state - eff 'em. I've already paid state taxes once in the other states. I am not going to go through some bureaucratic shuffle BS for this stupidity - pay taxes to PA then ask other states to remit.
To me this is nothing more than an invasion of privacy by the state. South Carolina even had the audacity to ask for 'taxes' for shipments I sent to my sister and nephew for Christmas. I am not an SC citizen so eff 'em.
Personally - cash only for major purchases is looking better all the time - no paper trail!
I have no problem with the tax collection from PA by Amazon and I have personally boycotted any local businesses that believe they have the RIGHT to force me to do business in the state.
My attraction to Amazon is that their prices are reasonable and I can usually find what I want - not what some local salesman is trying to force upon me. It's also very convenient for me to ship gifts to family and friends in the US and worldwide.
Many of these merchants are simply using Amazon as a scapegoat to hide their poor non-competitive business practices. The difference in taxes has nothing to do with my use of Amazon.
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"The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.” -Alber Camus (1913-1960)
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Etz
Posts: 13891
Incept: 2007-06-26
LA
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One thing they have going in addition to operating efficiency is exceptional customer service. Few times I've had problems buying or selling at Amazon their reponse time and actions have always been first class.
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Legal chicanery and beneficent darkness are the banker's stoutest allies - F.Pecora.
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Sandor
Posts: 1944
Incept: 2007-08-08
Deltaville,Virginia
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Once the Amazon sales tax kicks in for Virginia, I will be moving on!
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Widgeon
Posts: 13481
Incept: 2007-08-30
Region formerly known as the United States
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I get 2 day virtually every time - just w/ "supersaver." Never more than 4.
Why bother w/ "Prime"?
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Raftermanfmj
Posts: 3368
Incept: 2010-09-06
USA
Online
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Bah, well I deal pretty much exclusively with Amazon. Just took delivery of a rowing machine, after 18 months of trying to get a deal/find it cheaper on craigslist etc.
With my credit on my Amazon card, came in 300 cheaper than anything local, even with the 40 bucks S/H.
The only good news is I don't live in Texas, I suppose.
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I have never wished to cater to the crowd; for what I know they do not approve, and what they approve I do not know. - Epicurus Oderint dum metuant - Caligula & Police State USA
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Wcinvest
Posts: 11
Incept: 2012-04-05
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I question its frothy stock valuation as well so I would not be a buyer at these prices.
I find it a hard stock to analyze by just looking at the numbers that Karl posted since Amazon is one of those companies that actually invests quite a lot in the short term even if it leads to very significantly lower profits. There revenue is up about 1200% in the last 10 years. Amazon is investing a lot of money in cloud services and frankly I have seen first hand that they have extremely impressive class leading offerings in that arena.
That having been said since over 50% of Amazon's sales are in the US, sales taxes being imposed in Texas, California et cetera could hurt their growth.
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Thystra
Posts: 545
Incept: 2009-07-12
Around the World
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I bet they take a hit, but people will keep using them.
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Eaglewwit
Posts: 6054
Incept: 2007-11-30
SoCal
Banned
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Amazon is just like Apple. Great product/service, bad stock price. The two companies will continue to be successful, but there stock prices need to fall back to earth.
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Bw3
Posts: 6
Incept: 2011-12-04
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Amazon is selling the Fire at approximately cost as the razor, they make money on selling the razor blades (stuff not just digital content; working homemakers can shop and purchase at lunch, breaks, or during commuting with delivery to their door). Another contrary opinion: http://www.thestreet.com/story/11511325/....The included video tends to agree with Denninger.
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Erbo
Posts: 121
Incept: 2010-06-10
Denver, CO
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Amazon actually sent me a message via LinkedIn not long ago offering to bring me to Dallas to interview with them for a position in the Seattle area. I kinda just filed that message, as I like the job I have right now...but now I have reason to not go with them, as with an impending margin collapse of that magnitude I have to wonder how safe a job with them would be in the long run. Or maybe I'm just being paranoid...
In the meantime, though, I will continue being a Prime subscriber and ordering stuff from them. I don't know if their sales tax deals extend to Colorado...probably not, since the state Supreme Court just ruled the state's attempt to impose sales taxes on Amazon unconstitutional not long ago.
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"There is a ready solution for anyone on the public payroll who feels that he is not paid enough: He can resign and work for a living. This applies with equal force to Congressmen, Welfare 'clients,' school teachers, generals, garbage collectors, and judges." - Ira Johnson
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Judgesmales
Posts: 3334
Incept: 2008-02-05
Las Vegas
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Nevada is the latest to cut a tax deal with Amazon: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/apr....Quote:Gov. Brian Sandoval reached an agreement with online retail giant Amazon to collect sales tax on items it sells in Nevada, raising at least $16 million a year and tacking on 8.1 percent when Las Vegans hit the “checkout” button online.
The agreement, announced Monday, calls for the retailer to start collecting the sales tax in 2014 or whenever the federal government passes legislation requiring online retailers to collect the taxes.
Under a similar agreement with California, the company will start collecting sales tax there in September 2012.
Traditional brick-and-mortar retail stores have complained that online sellers have an unfair advantage because many don’t charge sales tax and aren’t paying their share for schools, roads and other government services.
Individual buyers are supposed to send in the sales tax to the state Department of Taxation.
Sandoval’s office said this deal would help in “relieving Nevadans from having to self-report use taxes from these sales to the state.”
The sales tax rate in Nevada varies by county, from 6.85 percent in some of the rural counties to 8.1 percent in Clark County.
Sandoval and Amazon, which has major warehouse and distribution centers in Northern and Southern Nevada, said in the statement that they would work jointly for federal legislation.
snip
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Don't forget: Panic is also an animal spirit, and it spreads much faster than optimism. Be careful what you wish for, Bernanke.
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Dazedncornfused
Posts: 313
Incept: 2010-10-13
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>Remember that Amazon's primary draw is that they're cheap<
No, Amazon is usually the only retailer for items in rural and suburban areas. Or, in the city, you'd have to spend $10 or $20 in gas and an afternoon driving around.
Amazon is convenient and easy and reliable. I don't have to fight traffic or wait on the phone or deal with an ill-trained sales clerk. Price comes after that, maybe.
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Stand up and be counted or line up and be numbered.
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Hilandstrata
Posts: 176
Incept: 2008-10-19
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With the economy supposedly in the dumper, who's got the money to spend at amazon? Where's it all comin' from? hmmm...
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Yayankee
Posts: 25
Incept: 2009-06-09
New York
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Saw this post on Amazon on Seeking Alpha, is that going to be the case for your stock commentary going forward being quoted by SA?
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Poodlelover
Posts: 147
Incept: 2012-02-02
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That is certainly an insane P/E.
For what it's worth I can chime in. I live in a state that collects sales tax for Amazon and it's still my go-to online store, and I do chose it often over local B&M. The selection is the best on the planet, and even with sales tax it's still cheaper than local. And there's zero chance of driving to a store and what I want not being there. Or standing in line waiting to pay for it. Also, for $80/year I have free two-day shipping on basically everything. $80/year sucks, but then it doesn't take too many purchases to break-even on what I'd spend on gas anyway--not to mention the time involved vs the few minutes to buy online.
Amazon is absolutely one of my favorite companies. I am an admitted fanboi and their customer service is legendary. This isn't to say I disagree that their stock is overpriced. It sure seems like it is predicated only upon major, continued growth, which may be quite optimistic.
And yeah that profit margin is indeed impressive in a sense!
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