There is an old rule of thumb that says that you should not get a mortgage over 3X your income. (A simplified rule that is suppose to be a guideline for ???)

Due to our changing economic structures, shouldn't that be changed to "YOUR TOTAL DEBTS SHOULD NOT BE GREATER THAN 3X YOUR INCOME."

Why is this kind of knowledge not being presented to uninformed parents and uninformed students?

Yes. That "rule of thumb" is from a time when the only debt most families ever took on was their mortgage.

I was taught that the real number was closer to 25% ... but that special circumstances might justify up to 33% ... recognizing that the "risk" to your family was significantly greater.

Mo:

McGill is one of the top universities in Canada.

Based on this:
http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tu....

about 2k per year for citizens, 6k for permanent residents.

My EE degress cost me about 12k total 15y ago, and tuition was mostly frozen since. Obviously, the provinces bear the brunt of the cost.


An American citizen who comes to McGill without a scholarship will pay 27k per year.


Currently, there is a student strike in QC as the province wants to raise tuition by 325$ per year.

Simple rule for life:

No debt. Ever. For anything.

**** the degree, Buy em a Corvette and send him to Vo-Tech to work on small engines or something. Get all the work you want to do and have something to show for the sixty grand!!

Tax cuts are not "government expenses" but that's the spin from 0Bama. Lies and distortion are rampant. The fish truly rots from the head down.

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Even then, filing a FAFSA was required in order to claim the scholarship.

More and more, this will be the case.

No FAFSA? Bend over for increasing charges

2Dogs wrote..

If you don't file a FAFSA, UW-Madison assumes you qualify to pay the extra tuition charge.

I am so ****ing glad we decided not to pay any of our kids' way through 'higher' ed.

This, from yet another high-school dropout who did just fine in life.

The whole "ya gotta go to college" thing has always rubbed me the wrong way, and it's sickening to see how it's turning into a debt trap, and the way universities have been turned into socialist continuing education camps (after all, in many ways it's merely a continuation and expansion of what the kids are exposed to in K-12 statist schools...)

Here's my new favorite quote about the value of higher education:

William Appleman Williams wrote..

For the giants among the elite (themselves rather impressive intellectuals) have seen to it that experts are a glut upon the market. Their strategy has been awesome: they have created, in the disguise of what most citizens consider a college education, a vast system of unimaginative vocational training paid for by the very parents who consider it an escalator to power for their children and the key to the general welfare.
...
The product of such an education who joins the system becomes an intellectual who can only be described as an efficient (and often well-paid) combination of court jester, royal favorite ever looking over his shoulder, brilliant eunuch, and uncommitted devil's advocate.

http://bsfootprint.com/quotes/william-ap....

(Emphasis mine.) That was written in 1972. Do you think things have improved since then?

Mo: "What's the cost of a foreign college education? Say in Britain or Ireland or Canada?"

University of Alberta, Edmonton about $7500CDN/yr - Engineering (tuition). Living expenses are another subject. It depends on how you set it up. My son lives with an older Brother, who just got a masters degree,and they share an apartment for about $800 CDN /mo each.

The bigger problem is academic standards. Canadian universities regard a USA education as inferior. My children were home schooled in the USA, the USA part not the home schooling was the bigger problem. My son had to pass the high school test exams for a number of subjects to demonstrate proficiency to get in. He has dual citizenship (Canadian & USA) but was still considered a foreign student because he came from the States. In certain areas it is worth checking out.

There are a lot of Chinese and other foreign students in the Canadian universities, especially in the sciences. They welcome the international diversity.

As to the broader subject, a college education is very valuable for a certain type of child. That is, one who has either a fixed goal, or has critical thinking skills not readily subject to propaganda and brain washing or who is there to get a genuine education in distinction from partying.

You pay taxes from property, to sales taxes, to income taxes depending on where you live. There is a way to work the system financially so as to get an education for your children that will actually serve them. You need to figure out how the system works. Each state or province is different.

There are genuine academic scholarships out there (without strings attached). My children repeatedly got them and my youngest is still doing so. But it requires that they have a high work ethic and are spending weekends at the books (particularly in the math and science departments) so that their grades merit them. Natural gifts help, but a bright student who goofs off through college will not get them, while one who works hard will have the GPA to show for it.

Summer work + parent, + part time job + merit scholarships can fund a college education. Sometimes you need to take the first year or two at a lesser school to get a foot in the door of a program, get the GPA and then finish at the better school by transferring. It seems like most parents do not do their own parental homework, they let the school and the media guide them and their children, while no doubt watching American Idol.

Student loans for the most part are the lazy way, another variation on having it all now, like a credit card instead of saving. Except for some unusual disciplines they are not necessary. You need to do more than save money for college, you need to use the same due diligence you use in investing.

Slightly OT, but related to colleges' bad behavior.

Backstory - I'm in my late 30's, financially independent. I decided to return to a local community college (the one I'd attended 20 years earlier) for self-enrichment and the social aspect of it. My major is "undeclared".

With a few more years of life's experiences, I read through a lot of the BS being taught - and one class in particular, the professor presented material that did not line up to the exams.

I searched online, and found multiple editions of the textbook publisher's test banks. Open, un-encrypted, widely available (Google searches). The bank I downloaded had over 6000 questions. Specific to my next exam, there were 600 questions in the bank - of which the instructor likely would pick 55. I studied the traditional textbook, lecture notes and these 600 questions. I shared these study habits with fellow students. Everyone did amazingly well on the test.

One student informed the professor that the test bank was circulating, and I was fingered. I had a meeting with the Dean, Provost, and the professor. They all agreed that the academic honesty code and corresponding disciplinary rules did not address test bank issues. A week later, the professor informed me (via email) that she failed me, and I was not to return to class. When I replied questioning why, the email bounced (she had blocked my address as spam).

Long story longer, I talked with the Dean for 90 minutes - and he agreed that the professor was overly harsh, but that I did "cross the line". Therefor, he offered an "incomplete" which would allow me to retake the class the following semester (pay for it again, of course). Otherwise, the F and "academic dishonesty" would stay on my transcript. The dishonesty on a transcript is an instant blacklisting for any professional programs or other schools.

I appealed to the president of the school, letting him know that I'm running out of options, and I need his support. If the direction of this didn't change course, I'd have no choice but to appeal to the board of trustee's, the school's accreditation board, and the public at large. I included a link to a previous lawsuit I'd filed against the state of Florida which resulted in a a new state law in my favor - just so he knew I wasn't a typical student throwing bluffs.

His reply, 10 minutes later "sent by [his] iPhone" read "I don't respond well to threats. The Dean's decision is final." Balls that clank when he walks, and arrogance to match.

My point for posting all of this is that the beuraocracy which is our higher educational system is interested only in self-serving its interests, and protecting its own. The idea that they would stand behind a lazy, vindictive professor, thereby executing a student's academic career, speaks volumes on their priorities.

For the record, the same team that helped me with my previous FL suit (http://tallahasseeo.com/2012/03/10/expre.... is now working on this issue. The next phone call the college's employees receive will be from investigative reporters.

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A week later, the professor informed me (via email) that she failed me, and I was not to return to class. When I replied questioning why, the email bounced.

You really had to ask? It had nothing to do with whether or not what you did could be called cheating - no, you did something far worse. You showed up a lazy professor who couldn't be bothered to write her own test material, instead copying test questions verbatim from the publisher. No wonder the Dean wouldn't help you. You'll be gone soon enough but he's probably stuck with her (and the fact he's got such a lazy prof working for him doesn't reflect too well on him, either). They're all in CYA mode now. Good luck - you'll probably need it.

Apparently, U of F rebutts the accusation:

Posted without comment. No dog in this fight.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danbigman/20....

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Janine Sikes, Director of Public Affairs at The University of Florida responded today to Steven Salzberg‘s post about their plans for the college’s computer science department:

A Forbes article by contributing writer Steven Salzberg falsely claims that the University of Florida is eliminating the Computer Science Department.
The Dean of the College of Engineering has put on the table for discussion a budget plan to reorganize the Computer & Information Science and Engineering Department.

Under that proposal, all undergraduate and graduate degree curriculum would remain the same and the college would maintain its brainpower and research capacity. The plan calls for no lay-offs of tenure-track faculty. Faculty lay-offs are expected, however, if across-the-board cuts are made in the College of Engineering.

Erkme73, does that particular plagiarism professor still have a job at that community college? What about the Dean and the President who are both now implicated in covering up the plagiarism?

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They're all in CYA mode now. Good luck - you'll probably need it.

The reporter made his first call yesterday, only getting the President's staff - who said they'd contact the him immediately to return the reporter's call. No doubt there's already been an internal email sent to all faculty to not speak with anyone about this.

On the flip-side, I've abandoned the idea of school. Since I had no long term goal, it was only to learn new things. I realized after nearly 2 years of being back in the grind, that the stress and anxiety of constant tests/exams was really wearing me down. Unlike a job, where when you go home, you can relax and not think about it, no such break exists for students. You're constantly worried about insufficient study, what might be on the next exam... all it does (at my age) is give me more grey hair. I like learning, but don't like the stress of the tests. Ironically, 3 weeks before all of this happened, I'd already privately made the decision that this would be my last semester.

So, if I get stuck with an F and dishonesty on my transcript, I'll wear it like a badge of honor if it means I can expose this school for what it is...

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Erkme73, does that particular plagiarism professor still have a job at that community college? What about the Dean and the President who are both now implicated in covering up the plagiarism?

I would think so, especially considering on the first day of our class she specifically mentioned that she writes her own tests. Shortly following that statement, she went through the boilerplate ethics presentation on plagiarism - about the evils of students presenting others' work as their own. The irony now seems so thick.


Here's the working link of the suit against FL: http://tallahasseeo.com/2012/03/10/expre....

FWIW, I sent a copy of this to the administration so they knew I wasn't their average student who might be bluffing.

Those who can't do, consult. Those who cannot consult, teach. What do the ones do that cannot teach???

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What do the ones do that cannot teach???

Administer

Every time I read about those administrative morons and their "zero tolerance" policy I realize I am seeing the Peter Principle in action.

We had a school board in Maryland that not only suspended 2 students, but had one arrested for - wait for it, you'll love it - having tools to repair and maintain the netting on their lacrosse sticks.

"An explosive device" (i.e. - lighter to melt the nylon netting) and "deadly weapon" (i.e. - penknife to cut the nylon netting).

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What do the ones do that cannot teach???

Abn,

I thought that they were the ones who had tenure?!?!??

Here's a nice one Karl.

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/201....