Wasn't there a Ticker a while back with a couple of graphs showing the lifetime costs of a college education, taking into account opportunity cost of waiting to enter the workforce?

Mt FIL paid so my wife could get a degree. Bachelor of Science in Textiles & Apparel at UT. He paid everything. Tuition, room & board car etc...

I didn't graduate HS. Went on to get my GED. Had some problems when I was that age.

My wife is a stay at home mom (not that there's anything wrong with that). I am a business owner bringing home all the bacon.

Just what is all the fuss about getting a degree?! Seems pointless to me unless you have a goal set to be a doctor, lawyer or astronaut that needs that type of education.

Thank you! I forwarded this post to my husbad, and he's finally got it. (Son is Freshman in high school, daughter is in 7th grade.)

Does anyone have a link to the (many) posts in which KD outlined how to NOT be mandated to include the parents' assets/income on the financial aid forms? What are the criteria? Also, if currently there's a 529 plan, is it worth withdrawing the money early so it doesn't exist when it's time to apply?

Thanks in advance.

Smacktle wrote..

Just what is all the fuss about getting a degree?! Seems pointless to me unless you have a goal set to be a doctor, lawyer or astronaut that needs that type of education.

Exactly. Our 2 are in school because a degree and licensing exams are required in their fields (Engineering, Actuarial Science).

Otherwise, at about 2:00 in...

A former coworker with a 13 year old son and who very much has education costs in mind recently told me about a conversation she had with one of these parents who have put themselves into bonded debt slavery so their kid could go to college. Apparently the parent wanted the child "to have the full college experience" with living on campus, etc. My coworker's response was, what experience?!? Watching their frat/sorority roommates get plastered?!?

I don't get these parents who give their kids everything. My daughter isn't getting anything given to her when she's past 18. I may help her if I think she is responsible enough at that time but I'm not going to mortgage my ass for her to spend 4 years at some liberal arts school so she can be indoctrinated into multi-culturalism or some other libtard belief philosophy. She will go to two years at junior college and then transfer to a local state school unless she's gifted enough to get a full ride. And she will work while she does it. If it was good enough for me then it will be good enough for her. Something tells me we will all have much bigger things to worry about than what school we go to by the time she's off to college.

$63,000 PER YEAR?!?!?!?!?!?

I actually had to take a break from reading the rest of the ticker to wrap my head around that number.

Quote:

Thank you! I forwarded this post to my husbad, and he's finally got it

So your husband is not a good man, and you have unreliable email? :)

If you apply for admission to a 63K per year school, that is Ipso facto evidence you're much to much of a moron to actually go to college.

And do not forget to look at college opportunities in places like Canada, Singapore, Australia, etc. Some good deals can be found.

I;ve have said it before - I think the reported debt loads of graduating students/parents is MASSIVELY understated.

$50,000 per year (room board + tuition) for private universities (at least in the Northeast - which I am familiar with) is the norm.

Heck - all in at our state university (Rutgers) is about $23,000 per year.

I am not opining on whether or not it is sensical to pursue such an option - just reporting on facts.

Rafter ... don't worry ... our kids won't be going to anything which charges near that amount.

I just remembered that KD had posted about the criteria for being able to exclude the parental income/assets when applying for schools. Search will be my friend, I was just wondering if anyone remembered what those criteria were.

(My email is working fine, my husband is a good man but let's just say, is not a TF member.)

Edit: Found them. Not complex. Just when a kid turns 18, they are a legal adult.

Quote:

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?single....

I am NOT filling out a FAFSA for my kid or signing DICK. The colleges and high school can go **** a duck, and I will tell them that to their face.

When she's 18 she's a legal adult. The funds she saves on her own and those that are in her UTMA account, whatever they are, are what she's got - and anything she wants to do beyond that is her call.

And this ...

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?single....
Specifically, your parents will be pressured to fill out and sign a "FAFSA" form, which is a federal government form that will then turn around and tell your parents what they're "expected" to contribute to your education. (Incidentally, the point of being 18 is that you can not only give your parents the finger should you so choose, they can give you the finger. It's called being an adult, and in the real world one does not have a right to "expect" things from one's biological parents beyond their 18th birthday. This outright scam was promulgated by the universities themselves and written into law. Go thank your local University Provost - by spitting on his shoe. Family ties beyond 18 should be based on mutual respect, not government guns up your Mom and/or Dad's ass. Chew on that a bit and consider how much you'd like being told to go to your room at 18... I think you'll figure it out.)

Now maybe I can get my husband to read at least the section in Leverage where it describes the value of a college education.

This situation requires simple common sense. All my kids have college education they cash flowed. My youngest did have to borrow to finish her last year for her PharmD. (Most college scholarships and awards only last 5 years so the last sixth required the debt, but it was paid off one year after graduation with her wages and bonus.)
Rule of thumb should be that if you need to borrow, you should only borrow one years' salary of the occupation you'll be doing after graduation. Easy money will ruin you.

My kids are making it through school partially with 529 funded plans (People's Republic of Washington) and on Dad's funding and through their own good graces. Son is living at home after a year in a dorm (he's a senior now) and will graduate with at least a dual major (business, marketing, maybe MIS). Daughter is going to school out of state, is a sophomore, and has made the deans list each semester. It's cheaper for her to go to school in MT than WA, even with the out of state screwing. She's aiming at secondary education (social studies with a foreign language minor).

Sticker price on this adventure will be just south of $109K for their educations. Given that I paid a metric assload into the state 529 plan when the kids were quite young, I "feel like" that has paid off. I think that people paying into it now are completely getting screwed, and it "feels like" education costs are topping off before a collapse.

The goal for DW and I was to get the kids through school without appreciable debt and into careers that seemed to have a future. Anybody's guess on how that will end up of course. Did we do them a favor by paying for this? Hell yes we did. Could we afford it? We didn't go into debt for it, neither did we force them to, or allow the college financialization board to chain them down. Did it impact my retirement strategy? Well sure it did...I don't ever plan on retiring, unless I am taken deathly ill, and at that point, it'll be moderate treatment for comfort and none of this heroic measures bull****, which will allow me to live out my days as intended and not on chemo or something asinine. My old man died at 71. I don't expect to make 90.

So, I don't ever intend to retire. So be it. I want my kids to have a decent chance at a future that doesn't involve crushing student debts that enslave them for life. It'll be a rare person in a few years who isn't completely f'd by stupid financial decisions related to education.

My kids hate debt at least as much as I do. Part of that education involved Biblical teaching, much more of it was real-world examples of people all around us throughout their entire lives that are debt slaves, cannot manage money, cannot tell the difference between want and need, and who must own the latest gadget and be constantly entertained.

Never inflict slavery on your children, even under good intentions.

The balance on the students' debt on graduation is just the beginning. Once you start piling on interest and penalties during forebearance period, the balance can easily double...or more.

Beware the scholarship trap. Our oldest was awarded a 4-year Trustees Scholarship at Purdue. It was worth a substantial amount of money. We had to file a FAFSA in order for her to claim it. We had no choice in the matter.

From Drudge ... "Can I get an 'Amen?'"

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obam....

That's new 2Dogs.

There's one place where I would compromise the no-FAFSA rule -- for purely-academic scholarships. That is, where they CANNOT******you based on ability to pay since the scholarship has nothing to do with that.

The problem with any other form of "aid" is that they use the FAFSA to then determine your expected "contribution" and you wind up paying for the kid sitting next to yours in the lecture hall -- or his or her roommate! This is BLATANT theft and fraud and yet it's done right out in the open with the full blessing and cooperation of the Feral Government.

**** that.

And ... Dum Dee Dum Dum ... if you keep your kid on your insurance until they're 26 (as Obamacare allows), they probably can not be considered to be independent adults. Dum Dee Dum Dum ...

So, does it pass the TF "membership test" to fill out the FAFSA - take any ACTUAL Scholarship or work study, but not take any (so-called) loans?

Or, with whatever "deal" the "offer" you in the FAFSA you have to take the whole deal or none of it?

Karl wrote..

There's one place where I would compromise the no-FAFSA rule -- for purely-academic scholarships. That is, where they CANNOT******you based on ability to pay since the scholarship has nothing to do with that.

Back when our daughter was awarded the 4-year Trustees Scholarship in 2008, it was based purely on academic merit - a matrix evaluating a combination of ACT/SAT score, weighted HS GPA (shows willingness to challenge oneself), and class rank. Even then, filing a FAFSA was required in order to claim the scholarship.

Purdue has since gone to a "holistic" model in evaluating students for scholarships. Financial need is one of the top things they consider. Actual academic merit has fallen way down on the scale of factors considered.

There are still a FEW academic-only deals. Until this LAST YEAR they did not require a FAFSA in many (but not all) cases. Now some of them do, including Florida's "Bright Futures" (and I understand this was under direct orders from the DOE at the Federal level too.)

The problem with filing one is that if there is any sort of "need" based computation that goes into what you're charged you're going to pay for the kid down the hall or next you in the lecture hall if you file that ****ing thing. As such the only way I'd do it is if the scholarship was ACADEMIC ONLY, no "holistic" or other bull**** of any sort. As soon as ANYTHING non-academic comes into it (race, income, etc) you're EXPLICITLY engaged in an all-on COMMUNIST enterprise -- literally "from each according to his ability, to each according to this needs."

Straight out of Karl Marx.

Goforbroke wrote..

if you keep your kid on your insurance until they're 26 (as Obamacare allows), they probably can not be considered to be independent adults. Dum Dee Dum Dum ...

Yep. You nailed it.

Karl wrote..

The problem with filing one is that if there is any sort of "need" based computation that goes into what you're charged you're going to pay for the kid down the hall or next you in the lecture hall if you file that ****ing thing. As such the only way I'd do it is if the scholarship was ACADEMIC ONLY, no "holistic" or other bull**** of any sort. As soon as ANYTHING non-academic comes into it (race, income, etc) you're EXPLICITLY engaged in an all-on COMMUNIST enterprise -- literally "from each according to his ability, to each according to this needs."

Oh, that happens anyway, FAFSA or not. Look at what UW-Madison does...

Quote:

If you are a resident student from a family earning more than $80,000 who does not qualify for need-based aid, you will pay an extra tuition charge of $250, increasing by the same amount each year over the four-year period ($250, $500, $750, $1,000), separate from any increases from the UW System.

If you are a nonresident student from a family earning more than $80,000 without need, you will pay an extra tuition charge of $750, increasing by the same amount each year over the four-year period ($750, $1,500, $2,250, $3,000), separate from any increases from the UW System.

http://madisoninitiative.wisc.edu/freque....

If you don't file a FAFSA, UW-Madison assumes you qualify to pay the extra tuition charge.

That's my understanding of how "they all" work ... if you don't fill it out the assumption is you qualify for maximum extortion.

I just "registered" my kids for the ACT today ... there are MANY RIDICULOUSLY INTRUSIVE questions even for that ... including reporting Parent's income. I left that blank, but the question is there as are many others that have NOTHING to do w/ registering to take a test.

There is an extensive "interest profiling" section (100 questions for the kids) ... when I talked to my kids about it this evening they reported that they've filled MANY MANY of those out over the years. It was one thing back in the day of paper when one was determining "what color was their parachute." This stuff is ALL computerized and stored forever ... they (TPTB) already have a well-populated personality & trait data set for (virtually) every school kid.

Orwellian Beyond Imagination.

What's the cost of a foreign college education? Say in Britain or Ireland or Canada?