Quote:

We have since been told by various attorney's and LE that the SA office is lazy and will not prosecute unless they know they will not have to work hard and have an absolute slam dunk.

I find that hard to believe in this case ...

The only way George Zimmerman gets convicted is if there is some evidence so overwhelming ... say he and Martin had a history of run-ins ... or Martin was shot in the back ... or Zimmerman was the aggressor who attacked Martin ...

Because otherwise all of the other evidence in the police reports, eyewitness, etc. would mean that there is a coverup larger than Watergate going on in Sanford, FL as the police, the EMTs, the neighbors, everyone would have to be in on a plot to coverup the murder of a 17 year old ... no farking way.

And as Karl eloquently pointed out ...

http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes/hom....

It will be hard to prove Zimmerman has a "depraved mind" ... so what was the felonious act that Zimmerman was supposedly engaged in while "murdering" Trayvon?

As others have pointed out ... Zimmerman might get "suicided" if the prosecution doesn't look good and the political points for certain individuals doesn't work out in their favor ...

I think BB is female. BB made valuable and interesting comments onthe Japan thread. That being said, I disagree with his/her comments on this thread.

Every criminal in America needs to carry a bag of Skittles. It's the Skittle defense. "I can't be guilty - I had Skittles".

I can get behind distrust, skepticism, or even anger at the police/DA/gov't side.

Zimmerman didn't decide to let himself off without charges. Let the law (and maybe a jury) judge him, and you can be upset if you think the people who should enforce the law didn't do their job.

Anyone angry at or speaking of vigilante action against Zimmerman is a very scary person.

Here's one I just stumbled across. This is Trayvon with the races reversed:

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/cri....

Happened in Phoenix, Arizona. A mentally disabled Hispanic man was shot and killed by a black man who claimed self defense at a Taco Bell. From what I gather, Adkins, the victim got upset as the driver pulled out of the drive-through, thinking he was nearly run over. He was yelling and maybe slung his fists against the car window. The driver shot and killed him, saying Adkins had a pipe.

Adkins was unarmed having no pipe or any other weapon, was walking with his dog, and had the mental capacity of a 12 yr. old just like Trayvon was the unarmed "child" with Skittles. The shooter has not been arrested or charged.

Where are the race hustlers and their cheerleaders in the MSM on this one?

Quote: Every criminal in America needs to carry a bag of Skittles. It's the Skittle defense. "I can't be guilty - I had Skittles".

Hmm, kind of like how Mento's used to work? Ahhh, the fresh maker.



There is a sad part of me is actually hoping there is some sort of overwhelming and real evidence against him, because if this guy really is innocent and going through this...

Publius:
Was he a White Hispanic or just a Hispanic Hispanic?

'Cause that matters, apparently, nowadays.

ROFL - dude 17 year olds that are 6' 3" are not children..in fact..that's about as good of shape as you can POSSIBLE hope for at *any* point in your life

This whole sad affair is the Bizarro World version of "To Kill A Mockingbird"

depraved is what they are going for.

http://www.sao4th.com/press_releases.php....

COUNT I: IN THE COUNTY OF SEMINOLE, STATE OF FLORIDA, on February 26, 2012,
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, did unlawfully and by an act imminently dangerous to another, and
evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to
effect the death of any particular individual, kill TRA YVON MARTIN, a human being under the
age of eighteen, by shooting the said victim, and during the commission of the aforementioned
Second Degree Murder, the said GEORGE ZIMMERMAN did carry, display, use, threaten to
use or attempt to use a firearm and did actually possess and discharge a firearm and as a result of
the discharge, death or great bodily harm was inflicted upon any person, contrary to the
provisions of Sections 782.04(2), 775.087(1) and 775.087(2), Florida Statutes

I'm a bit too lazy right now to go try to dig it out, but...

If I recall, the person who heard the screaming and was sure it came from Trayvon didn't actually see the incident, because it was too high-pitched to be coming from a full-grown man. There were several others who heard the commotion but weren't sure what was going on.

If I remember correctly there was only one eye-witness to the incident who initially corroborated zimmerman's side.

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This Martin kid committed a violent assault with what instrument? A bag of skittles?

He assaulted Zimmerman with a slab of concrete. What is the difference between holding a piece of concrete and hitting someone intentional in the head and slamming someones head into concrete? Not much other than velocity. The cement slab becomes a deadly weapon which authorizes the use of deadly force to counter Zimmerman's civil rights from being violated...

Quote:

The socially appropriate response to the death of a child is sympathy,

Child? If he was a teen does that place him outside of being a child? The world has varying standards and "adult" has IMO more to do with drinking age than anything else. When I lived in the Kingdom of Tonga, I had a licence to buy liquor at the ripe old age of 16. It cost me 25 cents in local currency. For a 50 cent licence I could buy twice as much per week...

in the United States as of 1995, minor is legally defined as a person under the age of 21, same with the context of alcohol, people under the age of 21 may be referred to as "minors".[citation needed], However, not all minors are considered "juveniles" in terms of criminal responsibility. As is frequently the case in the United States, the laws vary widely by state.
In eleven states, including Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, South Carolina, and Texas, a "juvenile" is legally defined as a person under 17.[citation needed], In two states, New York and North Carolina, "juvenile" refers to a person under 16.[1] In other states a juvenile is legally defined as a person under 18.[citation needed],
Under this distinction, those considered juveniles are usually tried in juvenile court, and they may be afforded other special protections. For example, in some states a parent or guardian must be present during police questioning, or their names may be kept confidential when they are accused of a crime. For many crimes (especially more violent crimes), the age at which a minor may be tried as an adult is variable below the age of 18 or (less often) below 16 [Gaines, Larry K and Roger Leroy Miller. "Criminal Justice in Action" 4th ed., Thompson Wadsworth Publishing, 2007. Pg 495]. For example, in Kentucky, the lowest age a juvenile may be tried as an adult, no matter how heinous the crime, is 14.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_(law)

IMO your use of child in reference to Trayvon is inappropriate.

From reading that indictment then I think they can use evidence that was Trayvon screaming and not George. Battle of Experts.

When the President of the United States threw his hat into the "Justice" circle, and add in all the media manipulation (and more) that is going on, this is a sad day for this country and its citizens im my opinion. It shows and in a "in your face way" how the govt and media are working hand in hand. Power and manipulation is running amok, and the masses can't see it. They are blind to it, as well as everything else we see and discuss here.

Add in the religious aspect of the prosecutors statements, and all discussed here, with what just happened and its down right scary as to what is possibly afoot here.

Lets add in what also is going on at the same Time.

George has disappeared, he has not been seen by anyone but law enforcement.

The weird website that went up the "real George zimmerman".

his lawyers said they quit, yet they verified it was his according to online reports, but yet they also say they haven't spoken to him etc and that is why they are quitting.

and more.

The President, wants justice
The Attorney Genreral US wants justice but stays quiet on direct death threats and bounties on George and more.
The Attorney General Fl wants justice
State Prosecutor Fl wants justice
All Civil rights Leaders want justice
The media has been caught manipulating all kinds of information.
The media has been caught not revealing true information and hiding information about Trayvon.
and on it goes.



Fn nuts and the public thinks real justice is happening, and what is happening is a pure con job and the public is biting like a hungry shark on a tasty tuna.

how can they hold this in Sanford county etc.

I still see pictures of a kid Trayvon and a jumpsuit arrested overweight George, on a regular basis. over and over.

Justice my ass.

This is pure evil working its magic, which is still a second rate BS magic,...


Over at wagist.com there is an article about Zimmerman and what he did after the shooting with police etc. Even after waiving his right to an attorney, going BACK THE NEXT DAY TO THE LOCATION WITH POLICE AND REINACTING WHAT HAPPENED (hmmm) so there was lots of police activity at the condo the next day.

After trying to find a reason and a hole in his story, they couldn't. Now they can.

Quote:

Then the next day, still without any attorney present or legal advice, Zimmerman took the police back to the scene of the shooting at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, and reenacted what happened on the evening of February 26th with them, step-by-step on video.

Had Zimmerman’s narrative and recounting of the details of that evening been any less than 100% consistent, that’s the moment when everything would have fallen apart for him — sometime right around February 27th. The police had every reason and opportunity to document and doggedly pursue any differences they saw between Zimmerman’s initial interview and his video re-enactment the following day.

Rather than finding anything they could follow up with, what happened instead? The Sanford Police Department was unable to obtain any evidence that would allow them to press even involuntary manslaughter charges against Zimmerman. And no new evidence changed that, even as days and weeks passed.

As anyone who follows criminal justice knows, under harsh conditions and during long, station-house interviews, many people will end up confessing to crimes they didn’t even commit.

So I guess this means that the DA is also saying that the whole police department and their investigators are racist or corrupt or both. That must be a conclusion since they had everything handed to them to trip George Up.

and the police were all over the condo complex the next day with video camera's and more.

yet the martin family and Greene family noticed nothing.

Are they not concerned enough to where the missing boy is to have searched for him in the area, yet so far no reports about they went out looking around for him,.. ever, They don't have a clue to a shooting that night, the next day with police crawling around the complex.

How who's story is coming forward. maybe its Chad. So why did Chad stay quiet if he saw his "brother shot".

Now who's story should be investigated by the media also. Yet nada on this and the dad gives out two different stories.

Quote:

Finally! Glad he did not pull an OJ and take off, and turned himself in.

In OJs defense his escape attempt wasn't very convincing..

The prosecution will really need some hidden evidence, going by what's publicly available so far murder 2 is lunacy. If not, Karl's interpretation is the only one that makes much sense. Double jeopardy would help to deter major protests, since after an acquittal the system can offer them no more concessions. At that point it's just the new Panthers against Zimmerman and hopefully the law.

Morla, why the **** are we even disucssing New Panthers against Zimmerman at all. That is what is wrong here. Forget Zimmerman, the real FN STORY is what the media and govt. are pulling off, and justice be ****ing damned. This is about a whole lot more than New Panthers and George Zimmerman. That is very clear,.

Well yes, the violence the prosecution may be seeking to head off would have been largely the media's fault had it occurred. People in government and media are also using this as an opportunity to play gun politics but that's a separate issue. Talking about "stand your ground" even though it appears irrelevant to the case, etc.

(edit)For that matter the media is being irresponsible every time they point a camera at Al Sharpton, MSNBC being the most flagrant offender of course for giving him a show..

Morla,

Exactly, why carry a firearm unless you can use it in self defense? If your self defense is legit, yet you are going to be prosecuted for political purposes, it would seem to interfere with your constitutional right to bear arms. I imagine that any successful defense of Zimmerman at state level will somehow be met with Federal charges of some sort to drag this out further.

It's pretty clear they're looking for the jury to take it down a notch to manslaughter. This may well happen. Any non black person on the jury not reasonable enough to vote for manslaughter will end up with their personal info in the hands of the black panthers and attacked from a mob screaming this is for trayvon. The scale of intimidation is this case is quite epic.

Anybody want to take bets which city will burn first?

Quote:

I was thinking they would have to have him in some kind of protective custody or solitary cause either way,suicide or murder, it would solve everybody's problem.

Except his own...

grashopa wrote..

You don't charge people when they haven't committed a crime.

And you know this how? Were you there?

grashopa wrote..

A 17 year old attacks a guy who defends himself and we should feel sympathy because he is black?

Assuming its because he's black is one hell of an assumption. And how do you know Trayvon attacked him? Because George said so? What the hell do you expect him to say? And even if he did, Trayvon was being followed by some strange guy and had no idea why. George had a right to defend himself, but Trayvon didn't?

I just saw an interview with George's new attorney. The first thing he did was express condolences to Trayvon's family. A true professional. That's what I was referring to. A child, adult, whatever you want to consider him, is dead. But to his parents he is their child, and he is gone forever. It is a tragedy, his death senseless, no matter what the circumstances were. For both Trayvon and George, and their families.

You assume I'm sympathetic because Trayvon is black, you think I've never seen a gun, and you don't know that I've lived in worse neighborhoods and as recently as couple years ago was working in the worst neighborhoods of different cities because I visited my clients where they lived, some of whom were homeless but all were poor.

jack_crabb wrote..

The overwhelming majority on this forum have said let's wait until all the evidence is in.

You're right. After rereading all the posts, I've made an unfair generalization. While some have concluded that George is innocent of any wrongdoing, many have suspended judgment. I read other media (from both sides of the aisle) and I allowed my perception to be clouded by what I read elsewhere and inappropriately applied it to this forum. I hope my sincere apologies will be accepted.

If we throw out all the extreme rhetoric from both sides, it boils down to nobody having enough evidence to make any conclusions. We don't know what the new investigation uncovered, what the autopsy revealed, seen pictures taken at the time of the crime, the EMT reports from treating George, if we know or will know who was screaming, or any other strong evidence one way or the other. The only thing I advocate is that the case is looked at thoroughly and impartially. I don't believe initially it was.

I condemn any radical language from such groups as the New Black Panthers or Al Sharpton or attempts to turn this into anything but fair and equal treatment under law. It's inexcusable that George's safety should be threatened, and I feel badly for George about that. I didn't express that side because others already had done so quite adequately. But some of what I'm hearing from the other side is equally offensive, and nobody was mentioning that. If Irish Samurai finds it offensive to hear opinions that differ from his, so be it. Its an opinion I've shared elsewhere and got positive feedback for being fair and balanced.

And to answer somebody, yes, I'm a member of the female persuasion. And to me, irregardless of physical maturity, 17 year olds are still children, both intellectually and emotionally, and in their ability to make good decisions.

Karl,

I don’t think Murder 2 is a political charge. The decision to charge Zimmerman at all is what’s political about this prosecutor’s action, unless she’s privy to some pretty juicy evidence.

The language "although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual" doesn't create a separate element which must be proven, it simply distinguishes Murder 1 and Murder 2 (Murder 1 requires a "premeditated design to effect" a death). For example, in State v. Bryan, 287 So.2d 73 (Fla. 1973), the Florida Supreme Court explained that striking someone with a loaded pistol which then discharged and killed the person struck "seems rather plainly to fall" within the definition of Murder 2. Id. at 76.

Murder 2 is the correct charge if Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense, but his belief that deadly force was “necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony” (the definition under 776.012) was unreasonable. Murder 2 requires: (1) The unlawful killing of a human being; (2) when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and (3) evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual. 782.04(1)(b)(2).

(1) If Zimmerman's belief in the necessity of deadly force was unreasonable, the killing was unlawful.

(2) Shooting someone is “imminently dangerous to another”.

(3) As far as I can tell, the requirement that the defendant “evinc[e] a depraved mind” simply requires that the defendant acted with at least recklessness with respect to causing the death. E.g. Hines v. State, 227 So.2d 334, 336 (Fla. Ct. App. 1969) (in discussing whether or not the defendant evinced a depraved mind, stating that: “Even if we accept the defendant's statement that the gun fired upon closing the breach, . . . such action committed while a gun is purposely pointed at the head of another from a very short distance certainly implies malice of the type present when death is caused by recklessness, even though a willful design is absent”). If Zimmerman was acting in self-defense, then he intended to pull the trigger, and thus acted with at least recklessness.

I suppose the Justice Department staged the cop car being shot up so Zimmerman would run and they could press the charges. Yeah, cop car just happens to be sitting around empty in a 'heated' up neighborhood. Sounds like the cops someone here mentioned wouldn't go after the black gangbangers in Alabama.

Bigbluffer,

Your response to... "You don't charge people when they haven't committed a crime." was..

"And you know this how? Were you there?"

I think this is one of those times where critical thinking skills comes into play. Given the length of time and high profile of this case, they must have dredged the bottom of the waste basket to come up with a contrived excuse to press charges.

While you can say that is based on circumstantial evidence, the fact that it has taken this long, weighs heavily that this is a bull**** prosecution. If it walks like a duck, there you go.