Watch The Silly Spin On Health Care (Again)
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-04-08 15:02
by Karl Denninger
in Health Reform
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Watch The Silly Spin On Health Care (Again)
 

The stupid, it burns!

“If a young man wrecks his Porsche,” the foundation’s policy director, Stuart Butler, wrote in 1989, “we may commiserate but society feels no obligation to repair his car. But health care is different. If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street, Americans will care for him whether or not he has insurance,” even though “that means more prudent citizens end up paying the tab.”

The White House and the law’s supporters are armed with similar ammunition from Republicans, starting with PresidentGeorge H.W. Bush. During the debate over so-called Hillarycare in 1993-94, Bob Dole, the Senate Republican leader, and other party colleagues backed an individual mandate. Subsequently, so did another Senate Republican majority leader, Bill Frist, a physician, as well as ex-House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

As governor of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney enacted a mandate in his state. “Some of my libertarian friends balk at what looks like an individual mandate,” Romney declared six years ago. “But remember, someone has to pay for the health care that must, by law, be provided. Either the individual pays or the taxpayers pay. A free ride on government is not libertarian.”

So let me see if I get this right.

First we pass EMTALA, which is blatantly unconstitutional as it forces medical providers (hospitals in particular) to treat people with no money.  That is, it is a literal enactment of slavery

That law comes with exemptions from other laws that would prevent anti-monopoly laws from being used against the health industry (specifically, the insurance industry.)

The result is a fusillade of assaults on you, all unlawful in virtually any other line of business.  You cannot find out what a procedure will cost "in total" before it is performed in a hospital as they don't have to tell you.  You are barred from exercising competition on price for drugs across a national boundary, even when produced by the same company.  You cannot sue for discriminatory conduct when it comes to health costs even though it is blatantly "in your face" and would be unlawful in virtually any other commodity (Robinson-Patman.)  The providers of health care collude (by setting the number of MRI centers and similar things) that they will open in a given area and use the power of government to prevent competitors; this too would be illegal in any other line of work (Sherman and Clayton Acts.)

After performing violence to the law and the Constitution for years, now when someone finds the common sense to say "oh wait, that's really illegal" we pillory them and call them names, citing as our evidence that what they're doing is perfectly ok their former acquiescence to what should have been treated as felonious.

You expect this argument to fly?

The foundational flaw is EMTALA itself and before that, Tricky-Dick Nixon's wage and price controls that were responded to with "employer-based" health insurance.  Absent both of those violations of common sense along with exceptions to long-standing anti-trust law there wouldn't be a problem in the first place -- there would be no rampant cost escalation that we had to deal with.

Oh it would be true that if you had no insurance and no money, and had a heart attack, you would get only charity care that people provided out of the goodness of their hearts.  You might die too, either in transport or due to the less-than-gold-plated care you received.  But this is a choice -- an allocation of risk and reward that you, as a free person, are entitled to make on your own.

Why is it that after shoving a gun up my nose for the last 30 years we suddenly consider the chance of my brains being blown out when the trigger is depressed to be solely due to the act of the trigger finger in the guard and not due to the fact that the gun was shoved up my nose when EMTALA was passed in the first place -- a blatantly unconstitutional law that was, to a large degree, at the root of the entirety of this crapfest we now find ourselves mired in?

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Djloche
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And let us not forget that Mr. Heart Attack could probably have prevented his heart disease by not stuffing his pie hole with carbs, getting off his rump and moving, and ignoring the fatal dietary & medical advice from the .gov.


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"If we wish to be free, we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of Hosts is all that is left us! Gentlemen may cry, "Peace! Peace!" -- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle?"
Bagbalm
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The legal exemptions the health industry were given balanced against having to treat anybody who could crawl in the door didn't turn out to be such a good bargain did they? Just another 'nobody could have seen it coming' scenario.
Sean
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Yep Dj. Watched a new food documentary a few days ago and two different MD's on there said that 70%-75% of all health-care costs in the USA are due to diet/lifestyle!

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* I think Ann Barnhardt is more and more right. God help us!
* Progressives / Marxists / Communists are many things, STUPID and IMPATIENT are not two of them.
* A hot civil war is coming.
* And people wonder why I prep!
Vicious_cycle
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Let us not cloud the debate with truth, facts or logic.
Morla
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I wouldn't call EMTALA "slavery", no one is forcing them to be health care providers.. Obviously it's profitable or they'd quit/leave. I'd rather keep AMTALA and abolish the current form of the health insurance industry than the other way around, let the sick pay for the sick rather than punishing the healthy by shoving them into a mandatory insurance racket. Get the "healthy people" money out of the system and let's see what happens to costs. Maybe EMTALA would be used less often if more people could actually afford care due to falling prices.

Unfortunately right now all the price fixing and collusion you've covered is preventing prices from going anywhere but up, not to mention the individual mandate coming down the pipes which will insert the hand of a health insurance executive into the pocket of every single American.

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Fear of govt IS the government.. Statism is a pack of unbacked threats; If govt gets out of control, ignore it and go about life as you see fit. Where's your crown, King Nothing?
Reluctantdebtor
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ohio
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EMTALA doesn't seem so bad when you're stone cold broke and you'd be dead without it. And yes, that can happen to people who don't "stuff their pie holes". Not every bad health problem is caused by "misallocation of risk and reward". I'm saying it's okay, in my opinion, to make you pay for my catastrophic health care costs if you have money and I don't.
Caton
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Neuilly-sur-Marne, France
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EMTALA is interesting. It's not really an unfunded mandate, it's a mandate funded by allowing fraud. Does anybody know if its constitutionality was challenged?
Sean
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bilge

----------
* I think Ann Barnhardt is more and more right. God help us!
* Progressives / Marxists / Communists are many things, STUPID and IMPATIENT are not two of them.
* A hot civil war is coming.
* And people wonder why I prep!

Mrbill
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North Carolina
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Quote:
I'm saying it's okay, in my opinion, to make you pay for my catastrophic health care costs if you have money and I don't.


Wow. Your mom would be proud to know you're a thief.
Flappingeagle
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+1 to Bagbalm, yes another 'nobody could have seen it coming' scenario. Except of course that lots did and got called names like 'heartless' for being able to see about as far ahead as the end of their noses.

+2 to Mrbill.

@ Morla, the healthchare providers are not really the slaves. Us people who have to pay extra for our healthcare are the slaves. The healthcare providers, many of whom make great money, are just middle-men.

Flap

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Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
"You can't build a house of cards on a shaking table." - Tony Johns
The January 2015 AMZN put at $130 (cost $4.25) will be a winner.
Tickerfan
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Wow, just like on Survivor. You can tell within the first 10 posts who's going to be catching fish and who's going to be sitting on the beach like Cleopatra.
Bertdilbert
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CA
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Quote:
I'm saying it's okay, in my opinion, to make you pay for my catastrophic health care costs if you have money and I don't


Did you ever consider that reducing your carbon footprint would be good for society?

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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!

Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
Jpg
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MI
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reluctantdebtor wrote..
I'm saying it's okay, in my opinion, to make you pay for my catastrophic health care costs if you have money and I don't.
Anything else you'd like to make me pay for if I have money and you don't?
Gweedo
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+1 Flap RE Cost Shift

We are ineligible for medicare. We simply make too much money (and believe me, it's a modest income, nothing crazy - we're about dead center middle class).

My wife couldn't work the last 2 months of her pregnancy and our baby was breech, so we had to perform a C-Section (adds another $2.5k to the bill). We got a $12k "deal rate" from the hospital, anesthesiologist, and ob/gyn combined for working out payment in advance.

Here's where it gets good.

We have a close friend who works at that hospital in the Obstetrics unit (why we chose that OB/gyn and hospital) and she says the folks come in all the time who are broke, obese (some to the point of not even knowing they were pregnant), and expect the hospital to do what's necessary for them when they come to give birth. The hospital MAY get $675 as a copay out of these people for the "medicare co pay" that kicks in. Often times, the hospital gets nothing. They rely on medicaid to eventually reimburse them and it's usually 10%-15% of what it would be billed to insurance 180-360 days after service is performed.

If you can't see the cost shift when our 2 day hospital stay with anesthesiology with NO COMPLICATIONS cost us $9500 and the other patients who come in and are serviced under EMTALA/Medicaid 2-to-1 versus cash/insured patients, you're not paying attention.
Reluctantdebtor wrote..
I'm saying it's okay, in my opinion, to make you pay for my catastrophic health care costs if you have money and I don't.
The problem is that it's not just catastrophic health care. It's all health care... you can't have one without the other. I'm not upset about paying to have a baby delivered. I take that responsibility. I am, however, not thrilled that I'm charged an excessive rate due to the fact that others are irresponsible with their life choices.

You're literally costing responsible people in society the ability to pay for half or more of their their kid's in-state college tuition because they have to pay excessive hospital bills. How is that better for everybody?
Phxkevin
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Phoenix Arizona
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Gweedo said

Quote:
You're literally costing responsible people in society the ability to pay for half or more of their their kid's in-state college tuition because they have to pay excessive hospital bills. How is that better for everybody?


It seems to be society should pay for everyone's health care (single payer?) or not pay at all.

I don't see TPTB cutting medicare/medicaid. Instead they will continue to soak those that can't pay. (TPTB = our elected officials, the health insurance companies, and the hospitals) Note that "they" will soak the providers for as long as they can as well.

We can't continue what we are doing now! Either we as a society, go all in on healthcare (with death panels and all) or all out (and let people die in the streets, no EMT's, and only charity hospitals if they exist).

Edit: If we let them die in the streets, someone has to pay for hauling the corpse off the street. That's pretty graphic, but we can't live in a city with out some sanitation. Don't have a heart attack if you forget your insurance card...

I'm in favor of single payer and rationing health care because there is no way as a society, absent some catastrophic event, that we are going to tolerate (accept) people dropping dead in the street.



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Congress persons are all the same, republican or democrat, conservative or liberal. They talk a good game, but the results (or lack thereof) show something different.

Reason: another thought
Swingtrader
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Gweedo wrote..
We are ineligible for medicare. We simply make too much money ...My wife couldn't work the last 2 months of her pregnancy and our baby was breech, so we had to perform a C-Section


I think you mean medicaid. Medicare kicks in at age 65, so unless you married a woman much younger than you - not medicare - medicaid. Unless of course, you are on disability. But you said you make too much, so I assume you are working.

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Swing said "Well, it is collapsing as we watch.This is what it looks like." Australian federal judge Jayne Jagot, doing what US judges need to do!
Jymm
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It seems to me many of you are missing the point. From Nixon to Reagan to the two Bushes Republicans backed EMTALA and the individual mandate. That is why I am a Libertarian. It is why I say "Republicans are just Democrats that are lying to you". It is about politics, not health care. Unless, until you can get a reasonable estimate of a procedure, and can by drugs from other countries, the lobbyist and politicians will keep you divided, sick and broke.
Gweedo
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Sorry guys.. brain fart there - medicaid, not medicare. Post is too old to edit.
Phxkevin
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No one in power today will repeal EMTALA, Medicare, Medicaid, or federal and state pension obligations for healthcare. Not any Republicans nor any Democrats. In fact both parties keep expanding health related expenditures without a thought about paying for it.

There is nothing on the horizon to indicate anyone with any authority will address these concerns before we crash. Its almost too late.

Someone commenting at ZeroHedge said it well: AbeCatalyst
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/201....
Quote:
At the end of the day it does not matter how we got here but rather what we're going to do now, how we play the cards we've been dealt, and how we're going to put others (our children) ahead of our own selfish lifestyles.

It will not be easy, but my hope is that this coming storm brings out the best in people, it helps people see the value of shared sacrifice for something greater, and we get through to the other side and leave the next generation better off...

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Congress persons are all the same, republican or democrat, conservative or liberal. They talk a good game, but the results (or lack thereof) show something different.

Wakeupcall
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Phx +1

When we finally crash into that wall, alot of people will die very quickly. Clear out those nursing homes & dialysis centers.

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Themortgagedude
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saint louis
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If it has to be single payer I sure hope they put a large deductible on it.

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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
Ben
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The Distant, Glorious, Past
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"And let us not forget that Mr. Heart Attack could probably have prevented his heart disease by not "

Or not. My family has it, genetics. You don't get an MI at 42, when you were hiking mountains the prior month and running 10-k's, from your diet.

2 or 3 male relatives had first symptoms in mid-30's, some died 38, MI at 36.

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"Why are you going to learn French?"
"Because I'm going to France," says Joe.
"I'm from the future. You should go to China."
Genesis
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If you're genetically disadvantaged then the question as to whether you have the right to demand others cover your genetics becomes even more important, doesn't it?

And more unjust if you steal from others.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Themortgagedude
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saint louis
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I'm just wondering is everyone entitled to everything? Is no one taking ownership of ones self any longer?

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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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