| User Info
| Noah Feldman's (and Harvard's) Folly On Health Ref in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Jstanley01
Posts: 8263
Incept: 2008-07-30
San Antonio, Texas
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Liberty, by definition, includes the possibility of blowing it. Even to the end of one's own destruction. Against which, it has been the utopians who promise that -- if we just give up "a little bit" and put our lives in their hands -- that "all the women will be strong, all the men good looking, and all the children above average"; it is they who have been greatest mass-murderers this planet has known.
Go figure.
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You can't cheat an honest man. ~P.T. Barnum
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Dashingdwl
Posts: 9810
Incept: 2007-06-26
los angeles
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Nice. Excellent Ticker.
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When you are hard and disciplined, you can be principled. People fear you because they have no leverage against you. It's the truest form of Liberty.
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Eaglewwit
Posts: 6054
Incept: 2007-11-30
SoCal
Banned
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Karl, this nation is so dumbed down they won't care if the gang of nine green lights this abomination known as "Obama Care".
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Genesis
Posts: 131439
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Oh yes they will with what follows it...
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Vitchilo
Posts: 4978
Incept: 2011-04-27
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You should send this to all SCOTUS judges. Quote:There is nothing in the Constitution allowing the Federal government to mandate commerce. Should this law be allowed to stand then the most-ridiculous down to the most-sublime becomes permissible. Yep. The precedent that sets, the government can force everyone to buy whatever they want or pay a fine/go to jail. Capitalism gone berserk... but even worse when the corporations have merged with the government... then let's say Apple buys the government... then the government can pass a law saying every living human being in the US must buy a new Ipad or go to jail... I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.
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We hang the petty thieves and promote the great ones to office.
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Gable
Posts: 426
Incept: 2009-07-04
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As always. Good Ticker.
If you want to see a "deer-in-the-headlights" moment with a Liberal/Progressive arguing Obamacare is constitutional and the government has the right to make you buy something it deems good for you try this on them....
Suppose crime starts to sore again in all the major cities and the majority vote in a majority (no veto possible) tough-on-crime talking conservatives. Due to the precedent set by Obamacare they pass a law requiring everyone to buy a gun...tell me Mr. Liberal/Progressive, do you still support the notion the government should have the right to tell you what to buy???
The looks you will get are priceless...
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In all of history, no government became more honest, less corrupt, or granted its citizens more rights as it grew in size. E.L. 2011
Ellie's Law-As an online discussion about the failures of the Obama Administration continues, the probability someone shouting "It's Bush's Fault" approaches 1
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Tesla
Posts: 15560
Incept: 2008-04-03
State of Disbelief
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Vitchilo wrote..Capitalism gone berserk... Another person who has no clue what capitalism is, yet feels free to post gibberish. Do yourself a favor, along with the rest of us: read the definition, and why it's important: http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Po...."Capitalism" is conventionally defined along economic terms such as the following: An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market. Source: Dictionary.com This is an example of a definition by non-essentials. An essential definition of capitalism is a political definition: Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights. Source: Capitalism.org In order to have an economic system in which "production and distribution are privately or corporately owned", you must have individual rights and specifically property rights. The only way to have an economic system fitting the first definition is to have a political system fitting the second definition. The first is an implication of the second. Because the second, political, definition is fundamental and the cause of the first, it is the more useful definition and is preferable. Because people often use the term "Capitalism" loosely, "Laissez Faire Capitalism" is sometimes used to describe a true Capitalist system. But this phrase is redundant. It is important to define "Capitalism" correctly because a proper definition is a prerequisite to a proper defense. Capitalism is the only moral political system because it is the only system dedicated to the protection of rights, which is a requirement for human survival and flourishing. This is the only proper role of a government. Capitalism should be defended vigorously on a moral basis, not an economic or utilitarian basis. ----- Oh and another thing - Quote:but even worse when the corporations have merged with the government That would be fascism, not capitalism.
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"Even a dog knows the difference between being stumbled over and being kicked." -Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
"Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." -Samuel Adams
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Vitchilo
Posts: 4978
Incept: 2011-04-27
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Tesla : yeah well I meant that capitalism gone berserk always transforms into fascism because of the corruption.
That's what happens when there's no rule of law.
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We hang the petty thieves and promote the great ones to office.
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Mdm
Posts: 338
Incept: 2010-10-13
South Florida
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Quote:That would be fascism, not capitalism. Yup, and we're heading there at light speed.
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Tesla
Posts: 15560
Incept: 2008-04-03
State of Disbelief
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@Vit - it has nada to do with capitalism and everything to do with fraud and corruption, so don't conflate the two.
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"Even a dog knows the difference between being stumbled over and being kicked." -Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
"Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." -Samuel Adams
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Flappingeagle
Posts: 1247
Incept: 2011-04-14
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The government only has to force you to do a handful of things, such as this healthcare, and they have effectively taken away all of your income turning you into a slave to the government.
The government can say you can't to 1000 things and there are still millions of things you can do but, when the start forcing you to do certain things they only have to make you do a few to take away all of your liberty.
This "Healthcare Law" does not fix healthcare or make it affordable, all it does is give the healthcare providers and the government unlimited access to your wallet and life.
Flap
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Here are my predictions for everyone to see: S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu. "You can't build a house of cards on a shaking table." - Tony Johns The January 2015 AMZN put at $130 (cost $4.25) will be a winner.
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Wootendw
Posts: 38
Incept: 2010-01-28
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The Institute for Justice is weighing in on Obama care with an argument that says, in essence, that you can't be forced to agree to something - i.e., a health insurance contract - because then it wouldn't be an agreement. Seems logical enough even for the Supreme Court. George Will has a column about it. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/o....
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 2694
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
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We are already a fascist state and even Ron Paul has no answer for this. If you cannot remove the money from politics, then everything else he stands for is basically babbling over nothing. Quote:The signature accomplishment of Barack Obama’s administration is on the line. It was a resounding success, the biggest shakedown in the history of the medical industry. Regardless of the outcome of Obama care, they have already lined their pockets.
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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Joyce
Posts: 109
Incept: 2012-01-08
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Shakedown OF the medical industry? How about shakedown FOR the medical industry. Yes, the pol's involved may have received all of their bribes/donations already, but the medical industry (if this law stands) just received millions of more guaranteed customers. Whether they pay themselves, or the government pays on their behalf, they do not care.
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Jack_crabb
Posts: 2761
Incept: 2010-06-25
Peoples' Republik of Maryland
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Joyce, it is not the medical practitioners that win in this. It will be the insurance companies, which already drive pricing. (Well, the price-drivers are the insurance companies and Medicare, since they set the rates.)
There are not a whole lot of practitioners making money hand over fist. Many of the docs that are turning a profit are doing so by restricting access to patients, using concierge care and not taking on Medicare patients.
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Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
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Ktrosper
Posts: 1509
Incept: 2010-04-06
ft collins co
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Gen wrote..May provenance guide both the Supremes and America away from that cataclysm. Amen.
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The unexamined life is not worth living.-Socrates The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle Liberty exists now in the spaces government has not yet chosen to occupy.-Doc Zero I anticipate that 10 Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders will blow me this evening.-K.D
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Widgeon
Posts: 13481
Incept: 2007-08-30
Region formerly known as the United States
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Quote:Yup, and we're heading there at light speed. Already arrived in full bloom in September 2008. To the point, I think there were at least 5 justices involved in negotiating this ... I mean, the positions of at least 5 were "accounted for" before it was passed. Where's Corzine?
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Vitchilo
Posts: 4978
Incept: 2011-04-27
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Tesla : I'm a libertarian, so I believe in capitalism... it's just that capitalism leads to lots of money... and then corruption.
Capitalism will work... if laws are followed and applied.
But today we've got nothing like capitalism. We've got fascism, like you said.
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We hang the petty thieves and promote the great ones to office.
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Grashopa
Posts: 2692
Incept: 2009-02-03
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Quote: Tesla : I'm a libertarian, so I believe in capitalism... it's just that capitalism leads to lots of money... and then corruption.
Think about what you just said. Communism doesn't lead to lots of money so there is no corruption. Do you realize there is no connection yet?
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Theft is evil
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Drench
Posts: 28631
Incept: 2009-11-10
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BOOM!Deleted or never made it into the actual article, but on the CNN.com homepage... Quote:Poll: Half in U.S. say justices will favor politics over law
In a new CNN/ORC International Poll, only 46% of Americans say the Supreme Court's health care decision will be based on an objective interpretation of the law
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Flyingcow
Posts: 41
Incept: 2009-06-07
Watching the decline & fall of the empire from my back porch
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Karl: In your Noah Feldman piece, I think you want to use "Providence" (God, conceived as sustaining and guiding human destiny) not "provenance" (chronology of ownership). Otherwise, nice MT item. F.COW
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Samadams
Posts: 589
Incept: 2008-12-03
Somewhere in TX
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Quote:Obamacare is not so much about health care as it is about whether the Constitution still has meaning. Hit the nail on the head with that one. This is about nothing more and nothing less than our very liberty. I told my kids this morning that this case is the most important Supreme Court decision in history - if the federal government wins, it will then be able to force you to buy ANYTHING. That includes membership in a gym, a device (that you MUST wear) which proves that you actually exercised, specific foods (from, of course, specifically-named providers), specific brands of medication (both prescription and OTC), specific books (which just "might" have a particular point of view) and tests to make sure that you actually read the books, cars (GM, anyone?), etc., etc., etc., ad infinitem. There will literally be no limits on the the power of the government, and our liberty will become a receding memory. If the Supremes don't rule that the Obamacare mandate is unconstitutional, the USA is over. If that happens, I would expect, over the next several years, scores to hundreds of thousands (at least) to be imprisoned for failure to obtain insurance and failure to pay the penalty for that to the IRS. I would further expect that some of those people will not go quietly to jail - so, ironically, a law supposedly meant to improve health will directly cause deaths among both the civilian population and government employees. Frankly, I HOPE that it does - it'll be evidence that the spirit of liberty hasn't yet died. Ironically, I don't need a law to tell me that it makes sense to have insurance - I already have it without any mandate, as does 90% of the population. But I resent the **** out of being told what I MUST do, under penalty of fines and imprisonment - just like seatbelts (which I wear out of my own sense of what is wise to do, not because a bunch of control-freaks in the legislature decided for me what is in my own best interest). What*****es me off to no end is that if I ride the 2/10 of a mile from my mailbox to my driveway without a seatbelt, I can be fined - simply outrageous! Similarly, if I chose to ride a motorcycle, I would wear a helmet - but would resent the **** out of being required to do so. I cannot walk around with more than $10,000 of cash (which I think is generally a foolhardy thing to do) without worrying about being arrested for being a drug dealer and having my money seized. The whole concept of liberty is that I - and every other adult in our society - get to do whatever I want to do, just so long as it doesn't directly diminish the rights of others. For some reason, that very simple concept seems to bother the crap out of the lieberal fascists among us. Well, ****'em! This law is the culmination of all of the progressive feel-good legislation (virtually all of which is either blatantly unconstitutional or incredibly contrary to the intent of the Founders) that we've been subjected to for literally the last 100 years. It pretty much started with the Federal Reserve, moved to the income tax, federal gun control (several iterations), most of the New Deal programs (many passed after FDR threatened the Supreme Court into irrelevance with his Court-packing scheme), the "War on (Some) Drugs" and lately the "War on Terror (and ornery Constitution freaks who have the gaul to think that they actually have rights)." Let us hope and pray that the Supremes have the sense and the decency, to say nothing of the intellectual integrity, to repeal this abomination. If not, the Republic is over...and long live the Rebellion.
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Dashingdwl
Posts: 9810
Incept: 2007-06-26
los angeles
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Supreme Court supporting the constitution??? Oh my. POLITICO Breaking News ------------------------------------------------- The conservative justices and potential swing vote Anthony Kennedy raised concerns Tuesday that forcing Americans to buy health insurance would open the door to other intrusive requirements from the federal government, such as making people buy cell phones, burial insurance and gym memberships. The Supreme Court has concluded the second day of oral arguments over President Barack Obama's landmark health law. For more information... http://www.politico.com/
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When you are hard and disciplined, you can be principled. People fear you because they have no leverage against you. It's the truest form of Liberty.
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Goforbroke
Posts: 5407
Incept: 2007-11-30
Just call me 'Comrade'
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We have met the enemy and it is us. -- Pogo
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